Wake to sleep for a Spirited baby

[SeanAosta]

Hi there,

I am a first time Mom and have a little boy Tadhg who is just 17 weeks old.
He is definitely a spirited baby. He is such a nosey parker and can't stop looking around to see what's going on, and is convinced that if he closes his eyes, or stops turning around he will surely miss something. His arms and legs are always on the go.. including his head, so he has to be swaddled to go to sleep, both nap time and night time. ( I've finally managed to figure out how to dodge the headbuts, but the left hook catches me unawares sometimes

My main problem is that I can't seem to increase his nap's from a 35 minute cycle.
I've tried the pat/shh with only limited success for the past week. Because he has such a short sleep cycle, if I stay with him for 20 minutes, I never know for sure if he's had a proper sleep as he wakes up again in 10 minutes. Sometimes I've stayed with him for over 1 hour, but he keeps waking himself up ever 5 to 10 minutes.
I try to let him be as much as possible and only step in when he starts to cry but that just seems to prolong his awake time. The few times I've managed to get him back to sleep it's been over 1 hour since he first woke up... which makes me think he would have gone down for a nap anyway, if he had been up an about. :?
The first 2 naps of the day, are ok, in that he is happy and babbling away with lots of smiles. However by mid after noon he wakes up cyring, which escalates to a screaming fit that can last hours, right through until feeding time at the 4 hr mark.
Here one of two things happen, on feeding:
1. He falls asleep from my warm body and from exhaustion
2. He gets second wind and is abuzz and smiley for another 1 or so.
If I get him up any time before this, he calms himself down in about 5 or 10 minutes and is abuzz for another hour or so, and the cycle starts again. ( I used to have to feed him to calm him down, but now any form of distraction works  :?)

I have to admit that I have made great progress wtih getting him to sleep and if I manage to catch him in time and wind him down nicely he falls asleep almost immediately and with no intervention. Other times he nees a paci and some patting for a few minutes.
His schedule works out something like EASASE. The times are all over the place though, as he never wakes up at the same time every day. However I always end the day with a bath and small massage followed by a feed and some quiet time before bed. This has worked a treat since I first tried it.

So now  I need to  increase his nap time.
I 've been reading about the wake to sleep method and am wondering if I should try this with such a spirited baby. He wakes so easily, and I mean wide eyed with his head swiveling around to see what's going on.

If anyone has any pointers or suggestions I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

Jackie

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

Hi Jackie

Goodness me, I think we've got the same baby here - though mine is the female variety!!

Can't offer any advice I'm afraid my 17 week spirited Mia is not a great napper and whenever I've tried to extend her naps with wake to sleep it ends up affecting her nighttime sleep.

I've accepted that as she's spirited it's part of her make up and may improve as she gets older.  Just wanted to say you've described my baby to a tee and it helps to know you are not alone!!

[KellyC]

Just don't do what I did last week and wake him up - Zander has never screamed so hard and I was so annoyed with myself!  If you try wake to sleep start off very gently and then figure out what works best for your LO - to begin with I was going in and turning Zander slightly from his side to his back (I worry about him sleeping on his side) but I think it was too much.  I now go in and gently stroke his cheek and/or his head and after a couple of minutes he stirs at which point I dart out of the room!  It doesn't always work but when it does he stays asleep for up to 2.5 hours - which makes up for the sleep he misses out on with his other 45 minute naps!  I think at the top of this forum is a thread on wake to sleep and it says if your LO wakes up at varied times to go in and make them stir after only 20 - 25 minutes.  I usually go in 30 minutes after I've left the room as I know he's been asleep for a couple of minutes by then so it'll end up closer to 35 minutes, if that makes sense!

Zander's having his catnap at the moment - typically for the last 2 days he's extended this nap without my intervention.  The one nap I want him to wake up from after 45 minutes, I'll have to explain to him I think!!

Kelly x

[Deb_in_oz]

The first 2 naps of the day, are ok, in that he is happy and babbling away with lots of smiles. However by mid after noon he wakes up cyring, which escalates to a screaming fit that can last hours, right through until feeding time at the 4 hr mark.

this sounds to me like although he can cope with the short naps in the immediate cycle, the cumulative effect leads to a very grumpy and overtired afternoon.

how long is his A time before you put him down for his naps ?

i have mentioned it on the site before but spirited babies often need a much shorter A time than the textbook baby.  from discussions wth many mothers of spiriteds it seems that most 4 mo olds who nap for more than 1 cycle (ie more than 45 min) are awake for an average of 1hr - 1hr 15 (can be as short as 45 min for first cycle and as long as 1hr 30 for some later cycles etc)

do you have the BW solves all your problems??  in the section on teaching to sleep... see p181 about sleep ritual and p200 about overstimulation to see if some of the specifics can help extend the naps by changing the nature of his A time and/or windown. Spirited babies are so easily overstimulated as you described already (BTW loved your accurate description) - the light on their monitors can be a form of stimulation for heaven's sake - i don't think too  many other babies  would find that stimulating  :roll:

[KellyC]

Isn't it funny how each of the baby personality types can ring a bell - I think my DH is predominantly textbook but your description of spirited really rings a bell there.  I always thought the way he got overstimulated so easily meant he was also touchy?!

Kelly x

[Deb_in_oz]

Kelly i think there are a lot of similarities in spirited and touchy - sometimes it is a question of degree...

with touchy ones it is often a case of HOW things effect their sensitive nature (get upset by things, need to do changes slowly, turn away from bright lights and crowds, etc) whereas with a spirited little one they cannot get away from the action - they are in constant motion even when they have no mobility (they will squirm and stare and engage with their eyes, anythign to avoid closing their eyes and resting IYKWIM. they are wired!) my spirited one has a touchy reaction to loud noises though- i cannot for the life of me vacuum when she is around - it sends her into hysterics (the only thing to do that really).  in all of the BW books there are great descriptions of the different temperments.

[SeanAosta]

Hi There

Thanks for all your replies.
I've taken to watchinghim like a hawk and as soon as he get's any way frustrated or perhaps a yawy I take him straight to his room and we sit quietly in a chair and have some very low key chat, or I sing to him very softly. This is usually around the 1 hr mark
If he starts to fidget even more or there is another yawn, I get up and tell him we are saying "goodbye to mister sunshine" and close the curtains. I then put him in his bed and wrap him up. If I'm very lucky he is asleep within 1 minute, otherwise I turn him to his side and pat for afew mins.
I have no monitor in the room and I always take his mobile down after playing with it, so he cant catch site of it and wind himself up again.
I feel like a bit of a kill-joy lately as he hardly plays with any toys (apart from about 10 mins under play gym, after his feed) this in an effort not to get him too overworked during the day... however the crying fits probably make up for this ... hehehe

I don't have Tracy"s latest book, but you can bet what"s on my Christmas wish list

I think I will go ahead and give the wake to sleep a go for a few days, I'll just have to make sure I start the wake/disturb  bit lightly, until I know what I can get away with.

Thanks again for replying.

Cheers,

Jackie

[KellyC]

Hi

Your wind-down sounds fab, I really have to watch Zander like a hawk too and still miss the window sometimes.  I also feel bad about the lack of toys - every other baby seems quite happy to have them dangled in front of them all day long, but we're listening to our LOs and I know they're much happier for it 

Good luck with the Wake to Sleep.

Kelly x

[Colesmom]

Jackie-may I ask how dark the room is?  I have heard that spirited babies often need a very dark room.  curtains may not be enough.  maybe try pinning up a blanket as a test to see if a darker room helps him transition to the next cycle.  He may be waking, opening his eyes and if the room isn't dark perhaps thinking it's time to get up?

Just a thought.  HTH

[SeanAosta]

Hi Traci,

Thanks for your suggestion. My curtanis are not really blocking all the light so I will certainly give the blanket/blockout a try.

So far I have had limited success with the pickup put down. But very definite success all the same. ( I don't want to get too jazzed up about it, in case I jinx myself  :wink: )

The first time I left it way too late in his cycle, and woke him up completely... could have kicked myself.  :x
since then I have been going in around the 25-minute mark... he wakes up roughly between 30 and 35 mins.
I've managed to extend him to over 1 hour twice, but this is usually with a lot of help after about 45/50 mins. I am never quite sure when I should go back in after the first wake up.

Are they supposed to sleep longer after the first disturbing ?
or they just sleep for one more cycle ?

I feel like I am pestering the poor child as I am in there every 25 mins tickling his ear to get him to stir.   :?

Also, with the last nap of the day ( catnap ) is this only if they are tired, or should I try to get him to take a proper nap if he hasn't had a good sleep during the day ?

Thanks again for all your help.

Cheers

Jackie

[Deb_in_oz]

Jackie,

I agree that darkening the room can have a huge impact for spiriteds - i hung blackout curtains directly over the existing ones (we are in a rental) and saw great improvements.

we also use a noise machine to block out any sudden or distrracting noises.  you can buy Cds to play or special machines to play white noise or nature sounds (i play ocean waves usually and it worked for both my girls)

i have never used wake to sleep for naps so cannot comment on your progress or technique really.  my feeling is if it is overtiredness or overstimulation that is causing the short naps, then you are initially better off with prevention (ie reducing stimulation and shortening A time further) to try to lengthen the naps rather than keeping stim/A times as-is and then trying to resettle.

if he is going TO sleep with little to no fussing then you have found your A time and focus on your chosen resettling or WTS techniques - is this the case? if he is struggling to go down then i woudl reduce A time and/or stimulation further.

at 17 weeks i woudl keep the catnap daily (generally until 5-7 mo depending on how well the other naps go in the day).  make sure he does the full cycle for the nap - just know that this nap (especially since it will be dropped soon enough) is considered by many to be a "freebie" in the sense that you could do this nap wherever you like (stroller, pouch/carrier, carseat during an outing) so do whatever works best for you without worrying too much about the details.  Surprisingly i found that Olivia often made the "catnap" her best and longest nap of the day.  In the latest book Tracy mentions that spiriteds like aftrenoon sleep and this proved true for olivia for the longest time (i often let the catnap run for 1- 1.5 hrs if she chose) The key with the catnap is to get them rested enough to make it through to bedtime without being overtired so if he has only had  a few short naps he needs it even more to ensure he gets a restful night's sleep.

[SeanAosta]

Hi Deb,

Thanks for your reply.
I think so far that his A time is ok, in that he goes down with minimal fussing. I don't think I will ever get him to like the idea of going to sleep. He always whinges/cries when I swaddle him. However this never lasts more than a few seconds, a token protest methinks  and after that he is usually asleep within minutes.

Thanks for the advise about catnaps too.
I am finding that Tadhg will stay asleep or go back to sleep easier in the afternoon rather than in the mornings.
I will keep going with my wake to sleep, I guess like anything it will be a case of triall and error to figure out what works best for Tadhg. I will concentrate on just extending his naps in general rather than sweating about when they are just yet... just take it one step at a time 

Thanks again for you help.

cheers

Jackie