anyone move from ESA to EAS at 6 mos.?

[lilapple]

Hi!  Just got the book and just getting started!  Is there anyone out there who had been nursing to sleep for a long time and then started EASY that could share their experience?  I'd really appreciate if you could share how it went and any tips or advice to offer.

[elisabethkneale]

I'm in the same position. At the moment my son Bobby has a feed before he goes for his nap and he just doesn't seem interested in breastfeeding at any other time. Any tips?

Thanks,

Liz

[lilapple]

Hi Liz!  Wow I thought I was the only one getting started this late!  How old is Bobby?  My concern isn't so much about the eating part but about the sleeping part.  I'm anitcipating a lot of crying--on her part and maybe on mine and a long time to break bad habits.(I haven't actually had the guts to start yet, plus, she's got a cold and teething so I'm waiting till after the holidays--which will bring more disruption anyway--listen to all my excuses! :? )  have you started?  How have you fared on the putting down drowsy/awake part?

[elisabethkneale]

Bobby is six months and a week to be exact! I've been working on getting him down to sleep drowsy for some time now (using the ideas in No Cry Sleep Solution). I started at bed time and night, taking him off the boob when his sucking started to slow then cuddling him to sleep. Then I gradually got him going into his cot drowsy. I've just recently managed that in the day but it's still a bit touch and go! My problem is that I hate to hear him crying so I've been taking it REALLY slowly.

So I've just bought the bw book and can see that separating the eating from the sleeping makes a lot of sense. I think I need to do this before I start the pu/pd process in earnest. The trouble is I don't know where to start! I've had a look at some of the sample easy routines but don't know whether to just make the change, or take it slowly and if so how...

He has an ear infection at the mo so I'm making excuses too! Mind you, the bw does say to wait until any health problems have cleared up before you start. Bobby is teething intermittently but I don't think it's affecting his sleep yet so once the infection is gone I'm going to make a start. My motivation is that he won't go to sleep for anyone else in the day but I have been offered a job (just a few hours a week, so I don't have to leave him for long!) and I need to know that he is going to sleep while I'm away. Plus I'd love a full night's sleep!!!

[Deb_in_oz]

ladies - i am going to move this to the breastfeeding forum so that others who have stopped nursing to sleep can offer you their experiences, tips and support.

good luck !

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

OK, I'll tell you what worked for us.  I used BW early on, but then got away from it when she was about 3 months old or so, and had a wretched time with nursing to sleep, etc.

You're right that one of the first things to start is breaking the feeding-to-sleep association.  I used a lot of techniques from No-Cry Sleep solution for that.  There's a great link under nightwakings called the Gentle Removal Plan. Try to tackle all feeds at one if you can so you're teaching her a new association consistently.  For every feed, try to nurse sometime during awake time and as far from sleep time as you can.  I would do it RIGHT when she woke from her nap and was still partly asleep in the dark room.  If she starts falling asleep as she's eating, try to keep her awake to get a full feed by breaking the latch if she gets too drowsy.  Then have some awake time and find another method to get her to sleep. 

If you want to use pu/pd, make sure you read that section in the book first so that you'll be consistent about it.  I opted for rocking and bouncing to sleep - not sure if I'd really recommend it though!  :roll: It'll be hard at first - try to get dh or someone else involved to spell you if you can. Whatever you choose to do, the idea is to gradually get your baby to be put down slightly awake.  (I found it easier to do at bedtime, actually).  We actually had to keep leaving the room at bedtime.  We'd put her down drowsy, pat her and leave, then if she cried more that a settling-cry, we'd go back in.  I found if we stayed there, she'd keep crying longer.  You'll have to see what works for you and your lo.

Then, for nightwakings, if that's a problem, decide what you want to do ahead of time (it's so tempting to change your mind back to nursing to sleep at 2 am!!) and try to stick to it.

Bottom line is: be consistent.  Your baby has to know what to expect from you.  There will be crying - less if you do it more gradually (although this can take months), but that's her way of expressing herself.  As long as you're there to comfort her, you're not letting her CIO, and you're reassuring her that she's ok and you're just trying to help.

I'm certainly no expert on this whole sleeping thing, but I had a lot of trouble and it's much better now (if that's any indication!), so let me know if I can help more!

[elisabethkneale]

Thanks for your suggestions, they've certainly given me something to think about.

One problem I have is that I don't know whether or not he still needs to feed at night. My health visitor said she would expect a breastfed baby to need at least one feed at night, and possibly even two.

However his nightwaking is not consistent. I never know what time he's going to wake. Some nights he wakes every hour or two and then every so often he sleeps until around 4am.

So I am utterly confused as to how to approach his night waking!

[annamum]

It is true that a 6 month old may still need a feed at night. But it is also true that a lot of 6 month old babies wake up because of developmental issues. My dd started waking up every hour or 45 minutes at that age because she was learning to roll over and would roll to her tummy during the sleep and then couldn't roll to her back and that would wake her up. The only thing to improve our nights was to teach her during the day how to roll on both sides. This is just an example.

But I agree that a lot of babies at that age do need a feed at night and it is up to a mom to sense if a baby is hungry. I would say that if your lo wakes up after 5 or 6 hours he is genuinely hungry but if it happens every 1 hour or 2 that it is not a hunger but something else.

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Ditto!  I would wait until a waking after at least 5 or 6 hrs after her bedtime feed before I'd feed her.   Then, if she ate well at that time, I'd wait again until at least 5 hrs to feed her, using other soothing methods if she woke at other times.

[lilapple]

Liz, your experience is very close to mine.  I also have been using a lot of the No Cry Sleep Solution stuff also--particularly Pantley's gentle removal  but I haven't gone so far put in some cuddling before I actually put her down in the crib.  I think I've been waiting too long to remove her so she's too close to sleep.  I am wondering how did Bobby respond to the cuddle time when you first introduced it and did it get any better?  My Gabriela fusses or becomes completely awake if I put anything between feeding and bed.
Also, you said you're going to start EASY before you do pu/pd.  I'm confused.  I thought that pu/pd and EASY went hand in hand,  pu/pd being the way to actually get the baby to go down in the crib.  Am I confused?  If you don't use pu/pd right away, and you are no longer breastfeeding right before you put him in his cot, what will you do to help to soothe him to sleep?
For Gabriela and I the problem isn't that she expects always to go to sleep after eating (she feeds first thing in the morning and another time during the day and does not get drowsy afterward)  but that she always expects to eat before sleeping--or at least suckle.  One problem we're having is that I'll have to go in 4 or 5 times at night when I'm first putting her down to breastfeed her because she will wake up every 30 min or 45--so she's getting overly full and now that's not even soothing her to sleep as well! 
I'm going to the library to get the 2nd book THe BW solves all your problems.... hope to get a plan down to start after Christmas.   Erin, how long did it take for your lo to finally go to sleep on her own? Did you notice a marked difference in her sleep overall after she got it?
Thanks!

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

It actually didn't take that long for her to be able to put herself to sleep at night on her own - maybe a month?  We did it really gradually.  I can't recall the exact timeframes though...  It DID help with overnight, but not completely - we had trouble with overnight for a lot longer, but I think it was because I was insecure with not feeding her when she woke at night, and I also didn't have overnight help (so I'd cave in and become inconsistent).  So overnights took months and months to get a lot better.  Once DH got more involved and we both got really consistent, it made a big difference, though! It also helped when she got a bit older and understood us better, saying goodnight and being really aware of the fact that we'd be back if she needed us.

Have you tried a pacifier?  Some moms have introduced them late and they help?  What about thumb sucking?  Could that be some of the soothing suckling she needs before sleeps?

[lilapple]

I've just recently tried giving her a pacifier again (we've tried at different times but she has never taken to it)  She's inconsistent about sucking her thumb... maybe she doesn't really have it down yet?  Do you have to teach the pacifier/thumb or do you just stick it in their mouth and if they take it, it's b/c they want it and if they don't it's b/c they don't want it?  Do you have any suggestions on when and how to introduce them?  I think I'd prefer the thumb.  She really doesn't have any experience sucking on anything not human --she doesn't take a bottle either!
Thanks!
PS  Is there a reason why you did not use all of No Cry Sleep Solution ideas for teaching your lo to sleep independently?

[lilapple]

Here's another question:  I'm going to start Gabriela on solids after Christmas--is it okay to start EASY using pu/pd at the same time?  She's going to be six months if you count by month but seven if you count by weeks so I figure her digestive system should be ready and she won't have trouble digesting starches and other things from what I've read.  What do you advise?
Thanks!

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

I don't really have good advice for the thumb and paci.  My dd never took either - I guess I didn't make THAT much of an effort though.  And yes, you often have to teach them or at least really encourage it.  For the paci, some moms find that by sticking it in and starting to pull it out when lo starts sucking it encourages harder sucking.  Don't know if it works with an older baby though.  I think you just have to keep offering whatever you want to choose.  Some moms prefer paci because it's easier to wean when you choose and it (may) have fewer problems for developing teeth.  Then again, they can lose the paci in the crib overnight... :roll:

As for the No Cry question: DH.  The techniques were taking too long, in his opinion (plus she had a bad cold at the time we moved away from them), so we had to move to other methods (let's no go there... :cry: ).  But we were seeing definite success with them.  I think you have to have a lot of patience to see any technique out and you really need to be consistent and to have both partners on board for the long haul for whatever you choose!

I personally don't see a problem with introducing solids at around the same time as pu/pd...  You could stagger them for a week to start (start one slightly sooner) if you're worried about starting 2 things at once.  As for solids themselves, you'll probably just be starting with a couple Tbsps of cereal or something at the start, so it'll hopefully not be a problem with digestion at her age.

Finally, at about 6 months, I started introducing a sippy cup with water at the same time as we did solids - just for practice (because she never took a bottle).  It worked slowly, but surely.  I still find the Nuby soft spout sippy cups are the best.

[lilapple]

Thanks Erin for all the insight.  We have a sippy cup in a cupboard I'm wanting to pull out soon.  My DH wants to go to a bottle first, but I think that's just going to be one more thing to struggle over.  You started with water and then went to breast milk?  Hmmmmm.... that's very clever!  So you were thinking that you'd get her into the sippy cup first and then put milk in so that she wouldn't reject it right off the bat b/c it had your milk in it?
My DH is kind of the same--if it were up to him she would have been Ferberized by one month!
Thanks again for your insight, Erin!

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

I did the water first because I didn't want to waste the milk and it's messier to clean up than water!  :wink:

Actually, with the sippy cup, I started without the no-spill thingie in so she could get the idea that something good comes out of it. Then once I noticed she tried sucking, I put it in (that's before I switched to the Nuby, which you can just sort of chew to get the liquid out).

Also, everytime I was drinking water from a proper cup, I'd offer her some too (now THAT got messy!)