My DD is driving me nuts - won't settle on her own

[mcruari]

Hello to you all (again),
I find I give little on this wonderful message forum but ask for lots!!
Well here goes..........
.......since my DD was poorly (she is now fully recovered) she has been a nightmare to settle (mainly night-time). I generally put her down with the same routine:
7.00 - dinner
7.30 - dvd
8.00 - milk
8.30 - bed (she usually then does poo-poo in her nappy so change nappy, snuggle down again and usually settled by 9.00/9.30)

Seeing as she was poorly and we were travelling in the UK her routine was completely off (anche she was still on GM time) so we have been trying to get her back into it by putting her bed-time a little earlier every evening.
She just won't settle. I put her down and she says "Mummy, come" so I explain to her that Mummy is not going anywhere and that I am only in another room and I tell her that she has to sleep all night otherwise she won't get a sticker in the morning, etc, etc. And I leave the room. She starts again - "Mummy, muuuummy, MUMMMMMMY"  :shock:  :shock: (and sometimes Daddy gets the full works too :shock: ) I find I have to go into her about 3, 4 5 times and she just does not want to let go. In the end I find myself shouting at her  :oops:  as I am at my wits end and she just won't take smooth, gentle talking. Yesterday we had such a good evening together and all was hunkey-dorey untill she started playing up again.
At the moment I'm wading through 2 books to find a solution - 'The BW Solves All your problems' and 'Toddler Taming' by Dr. Christopher Green.
Please, please any comments would be welcome

Thanks to all if you got this far through my loooong request/vent.

Sinead

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

My ds goes through stages of taking ages to settle at bedtime (we're going through one at the moment).  I find for us they last about 2wks and then it's over.  What I do is normal bedtime routine, make sure all stalling tactics have been covered, cuddle, say goodnight and leave the room.  He calls one of us back in, go in, quick kiss, retuck and leave (the key is no talking, or engaging in conversation), leave, if he calls out repeat as required.  What gets him to settle faster is to not get drawn into his stalling, remain REALLY calm (if we get firm and show that we're getting frazzled it prolongs the drama).  We're about a week into it and it may take 15mins of in and out for him to go to sleep, but I know he'll bored of this in the next few days since he's not getting a rise out of us.  When he did this when he was younger our longest settling session was 45mins the first night and it took a lot for us to remain calm, but the next night we were down to 15mins, 5mins and then we were back on track.

HTH and good luck.

[jessica and emilys mummy]

The first thing I would do is get her into bed by 7.30pm at the latest.
Sounds so early,but trust me I've been where you are.
What's your whole day like?

[mcruari]

I couldn't possibly put her to bed at 7.30!! I'd only get to see her for about 1.5hrs :cry:  :oops:

More or less this is what our day is like:
6.30 - Mum up
7.20 - Mum leaves for work :oops:   
7.30/7.45 - dd wakes and DH is in charge  
8.00 - breakfast
8.45 - kindergarten, where she has lunch at 11.00
12.30 - goes home with g.mother
13.30 - bed
15-16 - wake up
16.00 - snack
17.30/17.45 - mum picks her up from g.mother's
18.00 - get home
19.00 - dinner
20.30 - bed time

Last night I tried putting her down and leaving the room no matter what. I did this and she started crying Mummy as usual. I left her 5 minutes and then went in. I picked her up, gave her a cuddle, shhhed a little and put her down. Well she started wailing and sobbing as I left the room. :cry:  :cry: I asked my DH to help me in this and we waited 7 loooooong minutes and DH went in. She calmed down and when he put her down again wail/sob/hiccup/cry/wail, etc. but he left the room. I waited another 7 minutes (I tell you I was waiting outside the door nearly with a stopwatch in my hand!!) and then I went in. She was soooo distressed that I knocked that method on the head and just stayed with her with my hand firmly pressed on her chest and shhhhshing. She calmed down and within about 20 mins she was gone. I stroked her and massaged her and basically comforted her. I think she is definitely going through a period of Separation Anxiety. Where do I go from here? I don't want to start it all over again where she needs me to go to sleep (did that for a year or so :shock:  :shock: )
Please help.

Thanks

Sinead

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

Hi, just wondering why you're waiting 7 minutes before going back in?  Since you suspect separation anxiety I would suggest starting from scratch and sitting with her until she's asleep to help her know that you're there.  You can then start a gentle removal plan where you move further and further towards the door over the course of a few weeks and give reassurance as required.  I'm pretty sure there is a method in Tracy's book.

The method I wrote about above doesn't include any "timed" time out of the room.  Basically, you leave but return immediately, just don't interact, provide reassurance with your presence and she will gain security in knowing that you will respond if she needs you.

[mcruari]

Nikki,
I only realised it could be separation anxiety yesterday evening when i saw her so distressed. I just can't raise my head from her bed as she starts saying "mummy sit down, mummy come". I think I will just have to start all over again and sit with her and then tip-toe out of the room. Sometimes I feel I'm taking one step forward and 2 steps back :shock:

Thanks for taking you time to answer.

Sinead

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

Totally understand, I have night wakings and early waking issues of my own and wonder how the heck I can improve it.  At least bedtime problems we are always able to crack and figure out. 

Check out the book, it gives a good explanation on working with it and post back if you want some clarity on it.

HTH and good luck.

[jessica and emilys mummy]

Hi,I read your routine,sorry my first post sounded a bit rude when I reread it.
I just assume that all cildren wake up at 6am like mine :shock: .
What works for me is going out of the room and counting to 10,do back in lay her down or stroke head once,go out,count to 10 go back in etc.
If she stops crying,don't go in again.
They're so different,the sitting by Emily's bed never worked for her,but it did for Jessica so I tried everything until another bw said about the 10 sec thing.
good luck :wink:

[mcruari]

Thanks for all your help. I'll see what will work for the next few days and let you know. Unfortunately my Dh and I will be away for 2 days (good for us but not so good for her routine) so she will be sleeping at g.mothers. Fingers crossed she won't be too unsettled.

Sinead

[mcruari]

Well, she is all over the place again! what with Xmas and the excitement she has become a bit of a nightmare! Everything is so negative with her and she whinges for anything nearly. I think (and please help me here ladies) it is because she was so ill then we were travelling and she can't get back into her routine although we are completely back to normal and have been for a good while (although she had a temperature over Xmas - typical :shock: )
Anyway, we had a really bad night 2 days ago and it took her 2 1/2 hrs  :shock:  :shock:  :shock: to settle and go to sleep. I stayed with her and massaged and shhhshed and stroked and nothing was just right and she wanted daddy/to go to the kitchen/to be held in mummies arms (yeah right)/to hold her bed light - basically anything bar sleeping. I tried to stay calm but she just has this magic power to stir everything up inside me, so halfway through I went into my DH and said "pls, go in otherwise I will suffocate her" :shock:  :oops:  :cry:
Yesterday Santa visited us again and took all her toys away as she has been such a nightmare - "Cruel" I hear you all saying but she was not sad and keeps on asking where her toys are and then tells us he'll bring them back (which of course he will) - she is really cool about it so I'm wondering if it will work at all :?  We also have a star chart going on and this week it is mainly filled with black crosses rather than colourful stickers and she stares at it and says "not nice those, but stickers nice, yes" bless her.
Now last night I stayed calm     :wink: and stayed with her and it took me 1hr 20 mins.
Does anyone else have any other tactics I can use? I think I'm going to ger her some Bach Flowers as she seems to be so restless/hyper/unsettled even during the day so she wakes herself up by fidgeting in bed :?  :? .
Thanks again to you all and please excuse my vent.

Sinead

[jessica and emilys mummy]

May sound a bit crazy,but is there any way she can have dinner at g.mothers.Maybe her stomach is still full and she's wide awake.If she eats earlier,maybe she can have a yoghurt or piece of fruit before bed.

Or,going completely the opposite way and putting her to bed about 15 mins later than usual.Maybe telling her that she's been a great girl and she'll get to stay up late if she stays in bed.

Or,If you leave her to shout Mummy 200 times (yes I've been there(am there)) does she get out of bed or stay in bed but shout.If she comes out you could take her by the hand and just put her to bed without saying anything,over and over again until she doesn't  get out again.

I may be clutching at straws to try and help,so forgive me if it all sounds a bit neurotic.

[mcruari]

Sarah,
thanks for your never-ending help and advice on this.
I have actually brought dinner forward to as soon as I can get it ready after arriving home which is usually 6.30 and she has about 150ml of milk at 8.00/8.15pm so I don't think that is the problem.
She doesn't really understand the concept of time and staying up later so I'm not sure that would work either.
Now for the "letting her shout mummy 200 times" mmmmmmmmmmm??!! The thing is she doesn't just shout - she cries, wails and sobs at the same time and I get the sensation that she just winds herself up by doing that.
Yesterday evening I started her bedtime routine and as soon as I started to underss her she started crying "no bed, no sleep" and would not be comforted. I just carried on as usual and then we distracted her with the sticker chart and that was OK. At 8.35 I then put her to bed (crying) and stayed with her and tried to settle her. Well it took me 'only' 35mins so the time is being reduced. She then woke as I went to bed at 11.30pm and I settled her for 2 mins and she was off again. Then at some unearthly hour (I've stopped looking at the clock) my DH got up to her as she was crying and insisted "mummy & daddy's bed" and I was praying my DH wouldn't flinch but after saying it just twice :shock:  :shock:  we had her in the bed with us and she slept through me leaving for work at 7.30 and got up with DH at 8.20. I think I'll try and stick to this as the length of time is reducing - what do you think?
She still sleeps in a cot and fell (tried to get) out of it when she was about 18mnths and hasn't tried since (although she kept on getting out of the travel cot when we went to the UK a month ago :shock:  :? ) So, to answer your last question,  she stays in her bed and just wails, sobs, shouts, cries. I just can't leave her to do that although so many people around me, including sister and friends, are saying "believe me, just leave her to cry and she will wear herself out". On one hand I am tempted to try (again) but on the other I just can't do it for many reasons. We have a neighbour living above us who already dislikes us  :x  :?  so that wouldn't help things, my DH would not go through with it, and I don't think it would do HER any good. She is a touchy/spirited and a little grumpy child and so sensitive to everything :shock:  :shock:
Thanks again for getting to the end of my long message but I feel I have to tell all to let you understand.

Ciao 4 now

Sinead

[jessica and emilys mummy]

Oh Sinead.My Emily is nearly 2 and she's always been a nightmare.
When I said Leave her to cry I didn't mean it like leave her to cry (sounds a bit mad).I knew what I meant but couldn't get it out.I sort of meant if she were in a bed just shouting,then you could leave her for a bit.Obviously with the crying it doesn't do anyone any good.('specially the Mum,makes you want to  :twisted:  them!)

Do you have a cot that the side could be taken off?Maybe she feels too closed in in the cot.
I'm going to try that after Emily's 2nd birthday next week.Our side comes off,with Jess (dd#1) we did this and put a couple of duvets and pillows on the floor and she never fell out and it worked a treat.

Her :twisted:  I go again.Miss busybody :roll: Pm me if you want me to stop.
Or just say,I won't be offended

[jessica and emilys mummy]

Sorry,me again.
Just another thing.Does she have a little light in her room?If not,could she be scared of the dark?

Now I'm really clutching :wink:

[mcruari]

Oh Sarah, please don't stop answering me - I'd be lost!!
Well, the fact that we stuck it out for a while I think is helping.
On New Year's eve she went to sleep on her own for her nap and did 2hrs and 20 mins. She went to bed very late  :oops:  :oops: (11.30pm) that night as I had a friend over who I hadn't seen since DD was born and she lives in Barcelona so we chatted the evening away and my DD was so jolly and happy to be around that I let her be. Anyway, she went to sleep on her own (I went in to her room twice to settle for 1 minute each time). Things seem to be getting better although we are nearly 'threatening' her with Santa taking her toys away again but it seems to be working :wink: She freaked out on New year's eve when her toys re-appeared under the tree - she literally did an Irish jig on the spot (my mum&dad would be soooo proud :wink:  :wink: ) when she realised all her toys were back.
We have to battle with her a bit but at least we can now leave he room and she doesn't wail. I have, however, decided that my DH is no good at putting her to bed as he is so easily distracted by her chit-chatter and tends to talk back to her rather than shhsh and calm her - oh well, looks like I'll have to be doing that until she gets back to normal!
She has never had a light in her room and has never seemed frightened of the dark although we sometimes leave the hall light on if she is a little unsettled.
Bed, mmmmmmm good question. I think she might be ready for a big-girl bed as soon as this issue is sorted - maybe for her 3rd B-Day. The side of her cot can be lowered but not removed so that might be more dangerous. I dont' really know......
Thanks again for you help - it is so good to know that someone is listening and racking their brains for you - my friends and family think I am off my rocker as I am so obsessed with this at the moment (they're probably right though :wink:  :oops:  :wink: )

Sinead