alternative to pu/pd and shh/pat

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Sometimes my DS will not go down to sleep, and he cries hysterically. What can I do besides pat/shh (this bothers him more), and PU/Pd (seems harsh for an occasional incident). Usually when this happens it is because he is overtired which is my fault. He knows how to fall asleep but just has difficulties with it when he is overtired. We are trying to extend his A time and are having problems with this. I am starting to slip into accidental parenting, by giving him the bottle to calm him down and to fall asleep. Although he is not fully asleep when I lay him down he is finding comfort from the bottle. Help!

[Taylor's Mommy]

Oh gosh I forget how old your ds is-I think around 18-20 weeks???

have you tried just putting your hand on him so he knows you're there and maybe singing or talkign to him so he is reassured?  I know that even still sometimes for Taylor it just gets her way too worked up if I pick her up and then put her down, so instead leave her in the crib and try to comfort her in other ways until she works it out on her own.  Pat/shush and pu/pd are options, but certainly not the only way to calm your lo down without resorting to accidental parenting.  Many times it is just trial and error with other methods of soothing KWIM?

Please give me ds age and I'll try to help more.

thanks!

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

I am sorry, I always forget to say that Gage is 14 weeks old. I need to find one of those things that says how old he is on the screen.

[KellyC]

Hi Gage's mom

When you do PU/PD how long do you hold Gage for?  In Tracy's book she suggests up to 4 or 5 minutes for a 3 month old so this is what I do.  I hold him and tell him it's only sleep and I'm here to help (this calms me too!) and when he calms down or starts fighting against me or after 4 or 5 minutes I tell him he's just going to sleep and put him down again.  What usually happens is that one time he just shuts up and goes to sleep when I put him down (I either leave my hands on him for a while or do a little bit of pat/shush if he needs it), hopefully after only 1 or 2 pickups!  This actually seems less harsh to me than letting him struggle in his crib as I'm comforting him and letting him know that I'm there.  He's still fairly young and I think needs the extra reassurance of using PU/PD in this way.

Kelly x

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

I have only tried pu/pd once and that was when he was about 6 weeks old as I didnt know that is a huge no no. Oh boy when I did it, it was AWFUL! Talk about overstimulated! In fact, this one of my biggest and saddest regrets as a mother. Given what I know now, I cant believe I did that to him.  :cry: Needless to say, I am so afraid of doing it again. Gage is a textbook/Sprited baby, and I know the process will make matters way worse! However, this transition period is ruining our routine, and I may have to resort to that. I dont want to because if we are getting off track it is because of me, I dont know what I am doing AGAIN! Just when everything is going so well.......

[Caroline-Charlies Mummy]

Hey hun, Andrea beat me to it. My ds is also textbook/spirited, and if pat/sssh is to much for him, I lay him down in his cot, and just rest my hand on his chest, gently but firmly so he knows it's there. Sometimes I just whisper under my breath "go to sleep, go to sleep, go to sleep" rythmically. It sometimes takes a while but it often works. When he's thrashing around, it takes a lot to stop myself from getting involved and moving his legs back into position, etc,  but if I don't, and remain completely calm and still, it often works. The rythmic chanting also helps keep me calm too   :lol: .

HTH, hope you are doing OK

[Taylor's Mommy]

Oh gosh hon I wrote your post when Taylor was about 14 weeks old!  I recall the post was titled "DO I HAVE TO RESORT TO PU/PD?"   :?  I was at a loss because things were going sooo well for the last 5 weeks with a modified version of pat/shush, and then all of a sudden she just would not settle for naps or bed.

Well I did resort to PU/PD and it ended up being the best thing we could have done because I truly believe that that is what really tought Taylor how to self soothe and put herself to sleep totally independently.  I understand you are scared and nervous, as I was, but if you decide you want to try it we will be here for you.  We started on a Friday and by Monday things were pretty much worked out.

I am not saying that you have to do it and am not even encouraging it, just letting you know that I have been there and in the end it really worked out for us.

[KellyC]

Hi

I thought it might help you to know this.  We started with pat/shush and moved onto PU/PD as you know.  Two days ago Zander screamed every time I put him in his swaddle and laid him in his crib but PU/PD was working well, yesterday he screamed less and today he's been crying because he's tired on a couple of occassions and as soon as I've said 'you're going to sleep now' and put him down he's stopped crying instantly and gone to sleep.  I know he'll still need my help sometimes (like when DH just slammed the bathroom door as he was dropping off!) but it looks like we're finally getting there.  I can't believe what a clever little boy he's becoming at nap time 

Hang in there.

Kelly x

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

Hi Gages mom

My lo is also textbook/spirited.  So far I have not had to resort to pu/pd.  At night she settles herself pretty well but when she is struggling I sit next t her cot and put my hand on her tummy saying "It's okay, go to sleep" and this helps her.  She's a "thrasher" in the cot and I find my hand stops her kicking, a little bit of patting sometimes helps and other times sends her through the roof!

Naps though are a different matter and I'm afraid I've resorted to letting her fall to sleep with her dummy firmly clamped in her mouth.  All attemps to ease it out between suckles resulted in a very cross little girl and pat ssh made her livid.

However she doesn't have it at night and so I can live with it.  Very naughty I know but I get seriously stressed out trying to do the right thing at naptime.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

You guys are great! Thanks for all of the advice. I am willing to try anything. We have come to far to ruin everything.

For those of you who have thrashers, does your lo ever come out of the swaddle? I am having a heck of time with the darn swaddle! Gage woke up every 3 hours last night because he was unswaddled. I dont think he ready to be unswaddled because he so active he isnt able to control his hands yet. 

I tried Zander's mom method, and Gage turned himself on his back so his one hand was flinging everywhere. Zander's mom, how narrow do you have your positioner?

I tried the Aussie Swaddle, and it just has to much play in it. Gage couldnt sleep, and as a result missed his window. He did not sleep from 3:30 until 10pm.

Do you think I need a bigger miraclel blanket? I have been leaving his feet out to get more room. Or so you think I need to wean him from the blanket? I dont want to start with naps though. Is there another way? My husband thinks it may be postponing his development.

[KellyC]

Hi Gage's Mom

Zander sleeps in a baby hammock which is quite different to a normal crib.  The sides are very close to him as it's quite narrow and we have the sleep positioner very narrow too - either side of his bum and his front when he's led on his side.  At night Zander flips onto his back too but luckily it doesn't seem to wake him - I'm just pleased he goes on to his back and not his tummy!  Maybe it's something you need to stick with.  Before I put Zander down I hold him on his side and put his hand in his mouth for him, he seems to know what's coming next and is happy to stay in that position whilst he goes off to sleep.  He's finding his fingers really well now too, I don't know if we've speeded up this process by putting him to sleep in this way.

I tried the Aussie swaddle a few times too but just couldn't get it quite right in the short time I had available.  Poor Zander was getting pulled all over the place too!  He's also getting too big for the miracle blanket and his legs are always out when he gets up.  I'm hoping to try him in a sleeping bag in a few weeks so we'll live with the too small miracle blanket until then.  If he's still not ready to come unswaddled we'll find another way of doing it.  I don't know what the official line is on swaddling but I'm happy to keep doing it for both naps and bedtime if it helps Zander sleep well - I know getting good sleep is good for his development!  Also, it's not like we keep him like it 24 hours.

Kelly x

[Colesmom]

Hi Gage's mom,

Just wanted to say that I swaddled DS until he was nearly 5 months old.   Some babies do well swaddled until 9 months of age!  If your son cannot find his hands to self soothe then I would continue with the swaddle, maybe leaving one hand out as a test.  Sorry if you've tried this already...not sure what you meant by "Zandersmom's method"

Are you folding it tight enough?  You will know when it's time to wean him.  My DS was up every hour one night and I knew it was time.

I agree with zandersmummy in that good sleep will only help his development.

[Mommy in Moose Jaw]

We had the same thing happen with swaddling.  As our dd developed, she got out of her swaddle no matter how creative we had gotten.  I had to adapt the technique at each phase.  She is now 5 months old and still securely swaddled -- if she isn't, it is a guaranteed wake up and tons of scratches no matter how short her nails are!  I have to admit how we swaddle her..... we wrap a terrycloth housecoat belt around her arms once she is swaddled in a receiving blanket (anybody gasping yet??).  After a while that even quit working so I started to secure the ends with a clip too!  I swaddle her with arms straight down her sides and then wrap the belt from just above her elbows to just below.  She is much happier wrapped up and welcomes the swaddle so I don't feel like it's a negative.  I remember reading with red cheeks Tracy admonishing a mother who duct taped the swaddling blanket thinking that sounds like our extra belt.  BUT apparently the whole extra belt thing is common in Russia and with native american cultures, and it works for us!!!  I plan on trying to get away from the swaddle when dd stops her relentless scratching when she is tired.  Good luck!

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

I swaddled Mia until she was about 2 months, she kept kicking her way out her swaddle no matter how firmly I did it.  Someone gave me a sleeping bag to try on her and what a difference it made!  It cut back on all the fidgeting and crying.  With hindsight the swaddle did nothing for her at all.  She still thrashes now but is much happier in her sleeping bag.  When I check on her in the night or during naps she has her hands around her head and her legs are bent (like a frog!) so this is obviously her natural sleeping position and one that a swaddle would restrict her from getting into.

For my dd having that extra bit of freedom has helps her self sooth, plus the fact that she found her fingers from an early age and again swaddling stopped her from sucking them - I could kick myself now looking back.  I think I'm what tracy would call a textbook parent - if it's in the books it must be right!!

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

What is a sleeping bag?

[Caroline-Charlies Mummy]

Hiya,
A sleeping bag is a grobag, like a duvet for babies! They're much safer than having loose blankets in the cot, and much better b/c they can't be kicked off, and make baby cold at night (and call for Mummy :wink: ). Check this out:

http://www.gro-group.co.uk/brands/grobag/range/babysleepingbags/

There are cheaper versions on the market though, many stores do their own brand type.

HTH

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Oh yeah I have one of those, but havent used it since the swaddle. If it didnnt have the arms that could be the next step from getting rid of the swaddle.  :lol:

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

Hi gages mom

Mias sleeping bag doesn't have arms on it - it works really well on her.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Wow! Cool! Where did you get it? i would love to try it.

[Caroline-Charlies Mummy]

I got mine at much reduced ££££ on Ebay. Just try a search in the baby section with the word 'Grobag'. They come in two different togs - 1 tog and 2.5 tog. Depending on the temperature of your house/baby's room, go for the lighter one or the more heavy one.

HTH

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

Gages mom

Don't know which country you are from, but if you are UK you can get them in Tesco - they are only a tenner!!

[FreddieEden]

And you can get the grobags cheaply in TK Maxx if you are in UK.