Everything is falling apart!

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

I dont know what is going on. Everything is crazy. I had a similar posting on the EASY forum but no one has answered in a week, so I thought I would try here since I think it probably connected to the nap thing. I hope that is okay :oops:

Okay here goes. Gage is almost 16 weeks, and I think he is FINALLY catching on to the long nap thing. However, I think it is messing up everything else. He is taking long naps in the late afternoon and evening. At bedtime he will sleep, but then wake every 3 hours after that, whereas before he would sleep from 8-9pm until 5 am:? This has been happening for about a week. I try to console him, but ultimately he wants to eat. He is eating a full feed. I am trying to pack in the oz during the day, but it almost impossible. Yesterday he ate 39.5 oz from 4am-4am. At first I thought it was becuase he was transitioning to a 4 EASy, but he is still eating every 3 hrs. I dont know what to do. It seems like once he wakes up after 10pm then his sleep is disturbed and he wakes up every 3 hrs after that. He has also been coming out of his swaddle and kicking off the covers.

Here is yesterdays routine

12:30am fuss/sleep
4:30am 6oz
7:50 4oz/laid back down
8:30 sleep

10am wake
10:30 2oz
12:20 sleep (had a hard because I was trying to unswaddle his arm)

1pm wake
1:20 5oz
2pm sleep

4:00 wake
4:15 4oz
5:10 sleep

8:00 wake (I woke him)
8:30 8oz

Bedtime routine
9:30 sleep

12:30 am 6oz
2:30am 4oz
6:30 am 3oz

I am sorry it so long. Please help we are drowning!

[KellyC]

I wanted to reply as you sound so desperate but I don't know if I can help at all.  Zander's started waking a couple of times during the night too - I don't have a clue why!

Looking at your schedule it seems Gage is treating his first feed of the day at 7.50am as a night feed as he's going back down to sleep until 10am.  Have you tried getting him up here and starting the day?  I know how tempting it is to stay in bed if they'll sleep on but maybe it's impacting on your evenings/nights?  As a general rule if Zander wakes in the early hours for a feed and it's before about 6am then I treat it as a night-feed otherwise we're up to start the day!

It also looks like he's only managing an hour's activity at a time.  Zander's still on the short side but has been able to go about 1 hour 15 this week.  Have you tried extending Gage's Activity times by 15 minutes to see if he could handle this?

Zander also likes to extend his teatime catnap but I make sure I cut it short - 1 hour maximum but preferably about 45 minutes.  He then has bath etc. and down for bed.  Have you tried making sure Gage's teatime nap is only a catnap and that he then goes to bed earlier, say 7pm?  I wonder if by getting him up earlier in the mornings he may be happier to go down in the evenings.  I think Tracy said that if your LO is having more than about 5.5 hours sleep during the day they may confuse day for night and with that long teatime sleep you're getting about 7 hours in.

Let me know how you get on and feel free to PM me - as you know it seems Gage and Zander are very similar little people!

Kelly x

[Meg's Mom]

Hi gage's mom, sorry you feel like you are drowning - of course it is okay to post here if you need help.  I am glad to see he is getting the hang of the long naps - finally!  :wink:

Looking at your schedule I totally agree w/ PP - By putting Gage back down at 8.30am that is nap 1.  So if you add up all those naps he is getting 7hrs of day sleep!  Way to much and probably causing the night waking - he is not tired enough to sleep...you need take day and night sleep as a total.  For his age this would be: 10hr at night and 5hr during the day.

I think if you get him up and start your day no later then 8am.  Then start w/ a 3.5hr schedule until you get back on track as you are not really on 4hr EASY at all!...it is all messed up because of that 7.50am feed and 8.30am nap.

Try working towards the EASY schedule below, it will give you 6 feeds @ 6oz each which = your total of 40oz in 24hrs).  Give it time to work, expect him to resist/fuss - that is normal...if you are consistent he will come around.

wake up   8:00 AM            
1 feed   8:00 AM      
1st nap   9:30 AM-11:00 AM
   
2) Bottle   11:30 AM      
2nd nap   12:30 PM-2:00 PM
   
3) Bottle   3:00 PM      
3rd nap   3:30 PM-5:00 PM
   
4) Bottle   6:00 PM      
Catnap   6:30 PM-7:15 or 7.30 PM

bath, pjs,
5) clusterfeed 8:00 PM      
Bed       8:15 PM

6) Dreamfeed 10.00 or 11.00 PM      

I hope that makes sense, let me know if you have any questions.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

oh thank you ladies for your advice, I am desperate. We were doing so well. Anyway, the reason I started letting him sleep between 9-10 am because I couldnt get him to go to sleep until 9:30-10pm. This was working  when he was taking 45 min naps, but when I started extending A times is when it all started breaking loose!

I will gladly try this routine, except I have 2 concerns. 1. I dont know if I can get him to 1 hr 30 min this soon. I have just started extendingthe first nap to 1hr 15 (well until this all started) and all the other from 45 min to 1 hr. Getting this far was a chore let me tell you. Sometimes in the evening he wants to go to bed after 45 min. By extending his A time arent I in danger of missing his window? I am so worried about this. I feel so bad when he is overtired and cant sleep because when I try to help him it just makes it worse.

2. I have tried to put him to bed at this time, and he just wakes up 1-3 hrs later. What should I do? Should I just feed him and put him back to bed? I have been trying to do a different routine for bed so that he knows the difference between a nap and bed.

I have woke him up from naps before, and he is just the biggest crab pants. As a result, he is overtired and cant sleep. Well I guess it is not working now so I better just bite the bullet  :roll:

[KellyC]

Hi there

I guess the thing to try is to give him his last feed at 8pm and then get in with the Dreamfeed before he wakes up asking for it!  Perhaps try it earlier rather than later to begin with?

BTW I'm feeling very cross at the moment - Zander is taking a nap and we're just getting to the 45 minute point and some kids are playing football very loudly outside his bedroom window.  Oh well, I guess it will be him in a few years!!!

Kelly x

[Taylor's Mommy]

Hi Gage's Mom

Wanted to put in my 2 cents if oyu want it 
I think it is okay to want to go to bed at night after 45 minutes (some babies prefer a shorter A time before bed and some a longer A time), but during the day I would slowly start streching the A time out.  I think you will be surprised by how all of a sudden they can start staying awake longer.  So stick with 1hour 15 minutes for say the next 5-7 days which will take him to 17 weeks old, then give 1.5 hours a go.  Pherhaps with Gage he needs to go a little slower so may need to wait 5-7 days in between increasing A time, as opposed to 3-4 days like Tracy suggests.

Also for question #2, if his last feed is at 8pm, then really he shouldn't "need" to eat until 11 pm right?  SO if he wakes up earlier than say 10:30ish (that way you have  a little leeway) then I would try to put him back to bed.

Try to keep your head up!  It does get better.  Let us know if you have any other questions.

[Meg's Mom]

I agree w/ Andrea's post above.

Hang in there,

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Well ladies, we have been shooting for the suggested schedule above, and we are off just a bit but not too bad. However, I think Gage is overtired because he protesting(more than normal) his naps and becoming more cranky during A times. He had a decent nap in the morning, but the rest of naps have been short. The good thing is though that he has only 4 hrs of a nap and bedtime is approaching. Although this could be a bad thing too as he may be overtired and not able to fall asleep at bedtime. Who knows??? All of this can really be tiring you know. Will give another go again tomorrow 

Ps I think I will continue with the 1 hour a time for a little while and try to extend his 2nd nap to 1h 15 min. Again thanks for all of your help, and I am sure I will be talking with you all soon, hopefully with great news  :wink:

[Taylor's Mommy]

Hi,

Glad to hear that things are somewhat working in the right direction.  I think you know your ds the best so should follow your gut and read his cues, because after all, that is what Baby Whisperer is all about!   :wink:

Glad to hear am nap is improving.  That is the first nap that gets "set" in their bodies, so he is on the right track!

Please keep us posted!

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Well I put him to be a bit early because he was overtired and crabby. He woke up 45 min later and is practing the pitches of voice and is totally content. My son has the most amazing fun loving personality but..... What the heck is he doing it is bedtime? I dont know how to teach him this.

[Taylor's Mommy]

if he's content leave him be.  he will get it.  Remember, the end goal is for them not to ever wake up after being put to bed, but to have them be able to put himself back to sleep after waking up.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Oh my word, you were right ladies! He was sleeping too much during the day. Yesterday I monitored the amount of sleep he got and sure enough after he fell asleep at 10:30  :roll: he slept until  7am! Thank you thank you thank you!

Before I go though I do have a couple of questions to ask so that I dont mess this up again.

Gage actually got up at 7 am and farted around in his crib until he fell back asleep at 8am and woke up at 9am. I debated on going in to get him, but he was content and I wanted to see what he would do. Would this be counted as his first nap? So his bedtime should be at 7pm? So Gage should have about 5 hours of sleep per day right (dont worry I wont be rigid)?

Also, I think this sleep limit and extended A time is making him overtired as he is reverting back to 45 min naps. Will this pass or should I do something different? I think this is the reason I started changing things which ended making things worse.

[KellyC]

I'm sooo pleased for you, well done Gage and mommy!

I don't have any experience to answer your first question as Zander would wake up and coo to himself for maximum half an hour and would then make it known that he's ready to get up and start the day, he definitely wouldn't go back to sleep!  I would get him up though and start the day and, maybe you're right, he'll start going down earlier in the evenings and you'll get some time to yourself to relax!

Maybe it's just coincidence you're getting the 45 minute naps - ours come and go.  Some days there are lots and some days only one.  I don't really know TBH, I'm finding Zander is taking longer naps the longer his Activity times are.

I meant to say to you that the week before last Zander was doing 1 hour of A, last week 1.25 hours of A and this week consistently 1.5 hours of A.  I'm amazed!  A couple of days ago I thought I'd try and extend his first A time only (using a light feed when he first showed signs of tiredness) but he did so well I carried on for the rest of the day.  I only use the light feeds sometimes and he's staying up 1.5 hours even when he's had a 45 minute nap.  I think maybe he needed me to push for this change and over the next couple of weeks I'm going to work towards a 4 hour EASY, wish us luck!!

Take care

Kelly x

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi Kelly! That is awesome that you have increased his A time that long. Gosh I wish I could say the same for our progress. I think I just might push it too because the one long nap I do get out of Gage is the A time I have been extending. I am just so afraid that he will get overtired. Does Zander get overtired easily? If so how does he react?

What kinds of things do you do with Zander during A time? Gage is outgrowing his portable swing as he is too heavy for the poor motor :lol: . He will play by himself for about 15 min in his crib or on the floor. I do play with him a lot, but I think he is getting bored of this activity on the floor. I think we need some sort of seat or something so he is not laying down as much. What do you do?

When Zander gets tired what are his tired signs? Gage gets whiny. However, this may also mean that he is bored, I dont know. He was whiny today, so I figured he wanted to sleep so I swaddled him in his new swaddled and he has been playing in his crib for 30 min now. He loves his crib and room! That has also been our saving grace! How can he stay up so long in his crib, but not in the livingroom or anywhere else?  I wish I were a baby mind reader. Thanks for listening.

[Meg's Mom]

YIPPIE - i am glad to hear he is getting back on track  :wink:

Would this be counted as his first nap? So his bedtime should be at 7pm? So Gage should have about 5 hours of sleep per day right (dont worry I wont be rigid)?

yes to all above

Also, I think this sleep limit and extended A time is making him overtired as he is reverting back to 45 min naps. Will this pass or should I do something different?

Since it has only been 2 days on the new and extending A times, i think it is too soon to say if the extending A time is making him revert to the shorter naps.  Considering his age i really think you should continue on the path you started for at least 2 weeks and then we can re-evaluate if needed.

Keep up the good work Gage and mommy!

[Taylor's Mommy]

Hi Gage and Mommy!

Well done little man-you are on the right track!  Also well done Zander and mum too!

I am amazed that Gage can stay in his crib for an hour happily playing :shock:   You should be thankful and proud because it means that you have created a safe and fun environement for him in his room.

Where you live can you go for walks outside?  I have always found that one of the best things to do with taylor when I am working on extending A time is to take her for a walk out side for about 10 minutes in my arms (not in the stroller in case he falls asleep).  I do this at the very end of A time and then take her in for her nap.  Most times it works like a charm.

And in answer to your 2  :?: , I agree with Michelle on both counts.

Good luck and give yourself a pat on the back!

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

I know, I cant believe it either! It was a piece of cake getting him into his crib. All I did was let him play in there a couple of times with his mobile and had him take a couple of naps in there and he was fine! I really dont like leaving him in there that long, it just seems cruel. In fact another one of his favorite places is the changing table. He loooooves it! He goes crazy laughing and cooing. I have no idea why other than there is a huge mirror on the wall next to it. This child is crazy!  :lol: We are so blessed!

I need to take him out more, but it has been so rainy (We live in Washington state  :roll:) and there a lot of dogs around. Also, Gage is a chunky monkey and he is throwing my back out from carring him. When it gets nice out we are going to go out more often.

[KellyC]

Hi Gage's Mom

Zander does get overtired very quickly but I've found that if I feed him towards the end of an activity time he gets a second wind and distraction has started to work for him too.  Somebody on here suggested that if you think your LO is tired but maybe it's too soon then change the activity first, this is a good tip!  There was a time when Zander yawned when he was tired now we're not so lucky to get such obvious signs.  He might rub his eyes or throw his arms and legs everywhere or whine or suck his fingers or all of the above.  I've found a pretty good test is to pick him up and if he tries to bury his head in my chest then he's tired.

Zander's also getting bored of laying on the floor.  He's happier on his front that he used to be now and we have a Bumbo seat (I'll attach a piccie!).  He likes sitting in that holding a book or rattle or staring at his new socks (see piccie!).

Good luck with extending the A times.

Kelly x

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Zander is soooo handsome! Oh i think Gage would like the seat. Is there something to support his head or his upper back? Does Zander ever get tired of holding his head up? Gage's head is a little big  :lol: and his neck gets sore. I am working on tummy time, but it is NOT one of Gage's favorite things.
Thanks for the picture.

[KellyC]

Hi

The bumbo seat goes quite high up his back so it's fairly supportive but nothing for the head.  I make sure he doesn't stay in it too long as he would probably get tired.

I think he's handsome too but I would because I'm his mummy!

Happy New Year

Kelly x

[Mom2katiebug]

Just wanted to add that Zander is quite a looker!  Wow!  Maybe we could hook our LOs up in the future! 

Gagesmom - Congrats on extending A times.  My DD is about a month behind Gage and Zander, so I read all of yours and Kelly's posts to help me know what to expect.  Thanks for sharing your experiences!  Where do you live in WA state?  I'm just east of Seattle.

[KellyC]

Thanks Casey

We'll definitely look you up - it would be great to have some relatives 'over the pond' to take holidays with 

Kelly x

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi Casey! That is smart to look ahead at our posts, I should have thought of that. Gee, I hope we dont scare you though  :lol: If anything you should see that there is an end to some of those rough spots.

You dont live to far from us. We live in Kelso. It is just 45 min away from Portland, Oregon. So you know all about the rain huh? Or do you live far enough east to get some weather too?

I am glad our posts are helping you.  Let me know if you have any questions. I can TRY to help you.