Spirited Baby Information please?

[annapark]

I have a 12.5 week old Spirited Baby, Thomas, is there an information tips sheet on this website that can give specific hints to each of the baby types?

Looking forward to responses.

ps. he's becoming a nightmare to get to sleep these days!  Urghhhhhhh!

[Deb_in_oz]

hI THERE

here is a link to a thread that was going for a while about spirited babies.  the first few pages especially shoudl give you some insights.  feel free to PM myself or another mom from the thread for more specifics/insights.

http://www.babywhisperer.com/forum/support-group-for-moms-of-spirited-babies-vt40851.html

you can also gather lots of tips and insights from the latest BW book as some of the descriptions are so clear.  big ones for spiriteds are they have limited to none tired signs in the early months (by the time you see a yawn from most of them it is too late), they need all stimulation blocked out for sleeping (dark room, white noise helps, no mobiles or toys in cot), can be aggressive, reactive and very vocal - everything is urgent, as babies they hate being swaddled but actually need it more than any other baby so that they don't get crazed by their limbs flailing about

at 12.5 weeks i would bet if he is a nightmare napper he is having too much A time (can you post his typical day) - that is the turning point for most of us with spirited sleepers - figuring out what A time is the magic number not to have them overtired. once we got that sorted for Liv she at least started napping every EASY cycle and her Angel/Textbook side started showing more (at 10 mo she is still a spirited baby when it comes to eating and sleeping and it does still drive me crazy some days, but ... i still love her heaps!)

ask me anything you want and i will try to help as much as i can.

Deb 

[annapark]

Hi Deb,

Thanks for your quick reply.  OK a typical day at the moment looks something like this:

0320am   wake up – feed 120ml (took 1 hour to settle – is becoming extremely determined to remain awake after early morning feed – urghhh!  Quite aggressive)
0705am   wake up – feed 120ml (in his room where it’s dark and quiet)
0750am   yawn
0800am   put to bed
0845am   awake (bring into to our bedroom where I have my breakfast and dangle toys  for him to look at, talk or sing to him, terrible as I sound)
0930am   yawn
0945am   put to bed (would not sleep)
1040am   feed, activity
1115am   down to sleep
1200pm   awake
0110pm   light feed and put to bed
0410pm   awake and feed
      activity = visited friends returned home 0600pm, usual activity at this time is I water our plants, front and back; I place him in his stroller and wheel him around while I’m doing this and I talk to him – he has plants, sky, trees to look at as well as his dangly tiger, which he loves)
0615pm   bath
0645pm   feed
0715pm   asleep

Thomas, usually sleeps through now with only one wake up however after these early morning wake/feeds he’s become extremely difficult over the past 4 day/nights to settle back to sleep – he nods off after his feed I gently burp him and when I move to the bench where his wrap is laid out ready to swaddle him he is immediately alert and his body goes into back arches and aggressive shouting etc. in order to avoid the swaddling, once swaddled I return to the chair in his room and nurse him quietly to stage three which he jerks in and out of.  He tries to avoid his dummy as he knows it’s his cue to go back to bed when he does accept his dummy (not always) he sucks furiously for about 5 minutes.  He buries his head into my under arm and is almost asleep, but not quite when I move to the crib – once in his crib he jerks awake and brings forth a furious cry – eventually he goes to sleep – it’s been taking me an hour at the least.  Previously he returned to his crib after early morning feeds with a bit of fussing only.

I’ve kept a strict record of his pattern for 4 days now and this is typical each day he seems to manage to have a 2-3 hour sleep in the afternoon, is this just how he’s going to be or should I expect him to sleep 2-3 hours in the morning too?

FYI – he has slept through about 6-7 times, from 7pm to 6am; is the expectation of him sleeping through like this too much sleep for him in one hit?

Also he often yawns after he’s woken up, is this a sign of having had a relaxing sleep or he’s still tired?  He yawns sometimes 20-30mins after a 3-4 hour sleep.

Some other questions I have:

Feeding
During his day feeds I often feed him in the family room, it’s fairly bright and colourful and there are loads of interesting things for him to look at, also if I’m working in the kitchen he can see me moving about and I can talk to him and also keep an eye on him body language wise.  Should I stick to one place for feeding?

As he has remained awake sometimes right up to his next feed I’ve found that his schedule is in the wrong order ie. awake too early, activity, feed and sleep time again.

Noise
We live on a very busy and noisy boulevard and of the night I play a music CD - it has relaxing heartbeat and soft soothing maternal rhythms which is supposed to encourage calm, relaxation and peace.  I’ve been using this of the night on a continual loop until most of the noisy traffic has abated, I cease the music playing at about 10pm when we also go to sleep.  I’ve been researching a white noise machine which isn’t that easy to find in Australia have you heard of them and are they any good?

I don’t always play his CD during the day as I don’t want him to become reliant on it; historically he’s slept many 3 and 4 hour stints even during the noisiest part of the day.

Activity
I’ve in the past had bright things hanging for Thomas to look at but I think that he now needs more interactive activity.  He hasn’t had a lot of tummy time purely due to the fact that being a reflux bub he’s been quite intolerant of it but I’ll persevere.

Hands
he's found his hands and now intentionally suckles on them - I'm afraid to let his hands free from swaddling, any thoughts?

About the latest BW book I take it that there are now 3 books one for infants, toddlers and a new one – is that correct?  If so I’m going to get one big time …….. ah Deb dear me – he’s a lovable mite when he’s not so cranky but I’m a 1st timer and an older one at that, just the way things happened I’m 37 and this is quite a culture shock to both of us to say the least!  I’m dreading having a 2nd child and I get another spirited or worse a touchy baby!  Urghhhhh!  Or my goodness imagine a multiple birth – hmmmmmmmmm will have to give this matter plenty of thought 

Look forward to your response.

Ciao, ciao

Anna 

 

ps. when i last took the personality test for Thomas he had 7 Spirited answers followed closely behind with 6 grumpy - lucky me!

[Deb_in_oz]

hi - i will try to answer as many of your questions as i can.

i have had a look at your routine and the key thing i can tell you (based on my experience and talking to others with spiriteds) is that when he yawns at 45 min and then you take 10-15 min to get him to bed you have missed the sleep window for him.  if he is consistently yawning at 45 min i woudl aim to start your windown at 35-40 min and be quick and get him into bed before he hits that 45 min mark.  it can make all the difference with a spirited baby.  until 4-6 mo many of them lag behind other temperments in A time.  although at 12.5 weeks many others woudl be awake for 1-1.5 hrs it is totally normal for him to be overtired by 45-50 min.  you might find that once you get him started on going to bed BEFORE overtired stage you can extend his naps beyond 45 min (aim for naps of 1hr 30 and know that even with catching his window as often as possible you will stil end up with some 45s and may also get some 2hr naps  ) if he wakes at 45 min i woudl really try to extend him using shh/pat.  when he gets more evenly spread daytime sleep under his belt his A time wil probably start to lengthen. one cycle that can happen is if they get short naps they stay up for a short time and then take another short nap (they catch on quickly that they only need 45 min to recharge if they are only staying up another 40-50min KWIM - that is why they can wake seemingly rested from 45 min - but then cannot stay up too long afterwards)

as much as it is awesome that he does do a 3hr nap it woudl serve him better to spread that daytime sleep out a little more. i would limit this sleep to 2hrs - 2 1/2 max and then have the catnap be his last nap before last feed...

Previously he returned to his crib after early morning feeds with a bit of fussing only.

since you say this has only been happening for 4 nights is there anything else that has changed in the 4 days? 

FYI – he has slept through about 6-7 times, from 7pm to 6am; is the expectation of him sleeping through like this too much sleep for him in one hit?

when lo start sleeping for the 10-12 hrs at night it does not always happen one night and stay forever... it is a sign that he is almost there and as long as when he wakes for a night feed he takes a good feed you can assume that those nights he just needs more food (maybe fed a little less that day etc)  both my girls took 2-3 weeks of semi-consistent sleep throughs (woudl sleep 11 hrs for 2-3 days, then have a couple of nights with a feed, then 2-3 nights sleep through etc)  before we never loooked back (apart from illness, travel or growth spurts  :roll: )

He yawns sometimes 20-30mins after a 3-4 hour sleep.

if you are referring to daytime sleep i woudl venture a guess that it was too long and it was hard for  him to come fully out of it - but that is just a guess. as i said i woudl limit any daytime sleep to 2-2 1/2 hrs max.

During his day feeds I often feed him in the family room, it’s fairly bright and colourful and there are loads of interesting things for him to look at, also if I’m working in the kitchen he can see me moving about and I can talk to him and also keep an eye on him body language wise. Should I stick to one place for feeding?

i am confused - are you propping him up with a bottle? or is he able to hold it himself (since you say you are working in the kitchen while he is in the family room...)

i notice he takes 120ml feeds - does he ever take more than that?  at 10 mo old we are only now finding any success with feeding olivia out of her room - having interesting things to look at is her downfall - why eat or sleep if there is stuff around - we always feed her in her bedroom away from dd1 and noise/distractions.  we found that if another person even breathed near her she ate only minimal amounts.  we also found that she needed to eat on 2 bursts (woudl take 90-120ml and then take a break and then take a second drink form the bottle so her total intake was greater)  just my situation - i don't have a lot of people to compare to though.

As he has remained awake sometimes right up to his next feed I’ve found that his schedule is in the wrong order ie. awake too early, activity, feed and sleep time again.

we also had this problem in the early days, once we cut back olivia's A time and got "on track" she reduced the times she skipped naps so this problem was reduced.  if you miss a window and he refuses a nap and stays up just improvise and do the best you can - just avoid feeding him TO sleep.  he should sleep in every cycle of EASY so there should be less situations occuring in the future where he stays up right to the next feed (to be honest though at 10 mo we still have an occasional skipped nap - got to love the spirited ones  :wink: )

I’ve been researching a white noise machine which isn’t that easy to find in Australia have you heard of them and are they any good?

i have always had my noise machine form the states (i used it for myself even before i had kids) it recently went haywire and i had to decide whetehr to order form overseas or find one here- i found 1 place that carries them (the shaver shop i think it is called - there is one in Westfield Hornsby and i know some of the other westfields have them) - they sell the Homedics sound machine - they were only selling the fancy one with alarm clock, radio etc and it was twice the US price  :shock:  but if you order from overseas and add shipping it would be close to the price anyways.

I don’t always play his CD during the day as I don’t want him to become reliant on it; historically he’s slept many 3 and 4 hour stints even during the noisiest part of the day.

up to you wether you use it during the day - i did this with both girls and find that when they are ready to give it up there is no drama in doing so.
with alex i only had it on for 45 min and did not worry about it - was mostly to help her GET to sleep.  with olivia we found that as soon as it went off she woke up so we keep it on during the whole night and during all naptimes.  when i went to Tresillian with her at 5 mo they thought it was ridiculous and frowned at me so we went cold turkey (they played lullaby music in the corridor anyway) and she had no problem so i am not worried about getting rid of it in the future (she also coped fine during the 2 days at 8 mo when my machine died)

he's found his hands and now intentionally suckles on them - I'm afraid to let his hands free from swaddling, any thoughts

if you don't think he is ready to go swaddle free have you tried the aussie swaddle where their hands are up by their face (there is a link on the boards to it)... we kept the swaddle until the Tresillian visit (they don't believe in it after 3 mo  :roll:  so i agreed to get rid of it and she did fine but she was 5 mo old we had tried since 4 mo and it was too hard, so i say keep it as long as he needs it)

About the latest BW book I take it that there are now 3 books one for infants, toddlers and a new one – is that correct?

the new book is The BW solves all your problems - Borders definitely have it and i am pretty sure most of the other big chains are now carrying it - i even saw it at Babies galore last week.

ps. when i last took the personality test for Thomas he had 7 Spirited answers followed closely behind with 6 grumpy - lucky me!

i know that is daunting - cherish every smile he gives you 
definitely get the new book and read about grumpies - i know nothing biut looked in the book and there are a lot of similarities with spiriteds including being "on the low end of the activity continuum", BUT BIG ONES I READ: "sleep doesn't come easily to these babies. they often get overtired because they're so resistent, and then they fuss themselves to sleep.  these children tend to be catnappers, sleeping in only 40 min stretches" "have to keep an eye on their emotional signs. the slightest variation from routine can set them off: a missed nap, a stimulating activity, too much company. without a routine their lives are in turmoil"

feel free to PM for support or ask any more questions.  i truly think one of the contributing factors to my PPD was Liv being a spirited one (even though she is my second i was out of my depth and had no clue for the first 3mo  and since then only 50% success rate some days  :lol: )

[annapark]

Hi Deb,

Thanks for the response - last night we had a wonderful night, Thomas slept from 7pm to 5:30am at which point he awoke for a feed - I nursed him in his room for about 20 minutes after and put him back to bed with a minumum of fuss - hallelulia.  He didn't give me too much fuss when swaddling him either but will look at the Aussie wrap you mentioned.

When he returned to sleep after his 5:30 feed he continued sleeping until 8:30am oh joy, bliss!  He had a 1 hour nap at 11:00am and is now napping once more - hopefully he'll go for 2 hours.

Don't know if I mentioned but when we go for our 5pm walk (45 - 50 minute long) he naps in the stroller so I'm kind of cheating but if it gets him another nap in I say good! 

About the feed in the family room I was misleading - I had been feeding him during the day in the family room, while holding him the after a time I would lay him down on the 2 seater while I would then go and working in the kitchen - from the kitchen I can see him well.  Although there are interesting things to look at he always fed well.  I've now decided to only feed him in his room - I think that the less stimulation the better due to his personality.

I've decided to continue playing his music if it's going to assist his sleep I think it's best for us all - I'll wean him off it later if necessary.

Yesterday my husband fitted a proper curtain to Thomas' window and although it was already pretty dark in his room during the day it's way better now perhaps the morning light didn't come through as easily and that might be why he slept so well this morning.  Traditionally if he woke in the morning and the light had started to show 'at all' he was looking at the window and looking at me and I would swear he was saying 'it's day time, time to play' - hell no!

I'll drop the lighter feed and try to give him a bit more during his wake up feeds so he has the cals to get him through the night but I can continue to feed him in the night after his bath time right?  I will incorporate rocking or a book to break the link from food to bed as you suggest.

Thanks again and I'll keep you informed.

Cheers,

Anna 

[f1re_cr4cker]

soooo interesting to read ur responses! my lo is almost 6months and is spirited- she tires easilys and is in bed by 7pm which my relatives just cant understand as my neice who is only 5 weeks younger than her is so calm n doesnt tire easily at all!- not like my little fire cracker!!!

[annapark]

Hi Deb,

Things are coming good – I’ve bought the final BW book and have surmised that the four nights that Thomas was waking at 1-2am was due to a growth spurt, I increased his food during the day and he now sleeps from 7pm through to 5-6am consistenly then he goes down again until 8.30am’ish; oh the joy the bliss.

I’ve also persevered with this day sleeps and true to the book for Spirit children he only takes perhaps two 45 min sleeps in the morning but I usually get a 2 hour and perhaps another 45 min in the afternoon; I'm ever vigilant for his tired signs and as I've been catching them sooner he hasn't been as difficult to get to bed - fingers crossed.

I have a couple of other questions:

I never commenced the dream feed purely due to being terrified that he’d wake up!  If I started giving him a dream feed now would it extend his current wake up from 5-6am to perhaps 7am or is his current sleep pattern what a dream feed would extend his sleep to in any case?  Hope that makes sense either way at the moment I’m NOT complaining.

About visiting people I’m an advocate of a child has changed our lives and I don’t expect that he’s going to come hither and dither with me whenever I wish – can you indicate how long before a bub usually settles when going on outings?  I’m talking of day visits if we had an evening event on I’d have family sit him at home like I told my mum I don’t like sleeping in strange houses so I don’t imagine Thomas will either.

Look forward to your response - thanks again for your insight.

Cheers,

Anna

[annapark]

Hi Firecracker,

I KNOW what you mean - like I keep telling everyone children have their individual personalities and just because their children were 'easy' doesn't mean that all children are and it doesn't mean that you are spoiling them or whatever it's just human nature - hope you're doing well with your little one.

Anna

[Deb_in_oz]

HI Anna

that is great that things have improved so much.  If you want to start a DF now i would aim for 10:30pm and see how he does - if he won't take it try 15 min later and if that is too late for you, try 10pm the next day.  you just want to try to catch him at a good time in his sleep cycle so that he will be receptive to the bottle. Don't worry too much if he wakes up just don't look him in the eye or talk to him, soothe him, give the bottle and put to bed (very often if they wake before or during the DF  lo will go back to sleep easily).  The amount he takes at DF can vary and the effects can take up to a week to see so don't be discouraged if some nights he takes 90ml and others 150ml or if you don't see any change in his wake up time for a bit.

if he is going until 5-6 am consistently it is LIKELY the DF woudl push that out to 6-7am. if he wakes after 6am though i woudl get him up and start the day rather than putting back to bed for 30-50 min and then getting up - but that is my opinion only.

about the activity/outing - can you elaborate on what you are asking - what do you mean by settle? etc do you want to know about him napping out of the house or dealing with lots of people/stimulation??

[annapark]

Hi Deb,

About the settling while out’n’bout issue what I mean is that he’s not very portable ie. if we are invited out to a friends place for lunch etc. he fusses or cries while out, I have to hold him most of the time; I just think it’s him and some times will be better than others (not that we’ve gone out all that much); my husband and I have discussed this and in future we’ve decided to get a sitter as at the moment he doesn’t take well to having his routine messed with. 

We bought a porta-cot which I intend to use at my Mum and my sisters place to try to get him used to sleeping in it when he’s not at home.  Don’t get me wrong I know very well that our lives have changed and I don’t expect him to just come along willy nilly but I would like to have a day at my sisters occasionally and know that he’ll be able to settle.

I’m going to try the DF tonight and continue until he ‘hopefully’ stretches out to 6-7 as this is the time that I want his day to start and I’m hoping that he won’t be tired at that time and looking to go back to bed as he has been during is 5-6am wake-ups.

Will report back - Anna

ps - you wouldn't read about it - he woke up at 1:20am this morning blah!

[emwith2]

Hi Anna,

When my 3 year old son was a baby, he too was very spirited and very grumpy, and he would never sleep anywhere other than at home (which he didn't do much of anyway).  He not once in his 3 years and 2 months has even slept in his pram .  I was a virtual prisoner in my own home for about 6 months.  Luckily after that he was more familiar with my parent's house and they were able to look after him if I needed to go shopping or have an appointment.  When he turned 1, I went back to work and my parents started looking after him, he loves going there and has always slept well there, even these days he will have about 2 1/2 to 3 hour nap. So it does get better.

With my 5 month year old son if we go somewhere and he doesn't sleep i just put him in my papoose on my chest and he will nod off to sleep eventually . I wish I'd done that with my first son.

Hope all goes well

Emilia

Mum to Ayden 15/11/02  grumpy/spirited
            Joshua 12/8/05 mostly angel baby

[annapark]

Hello again!

OK all is pretty good at the moment; I’ve successfully introduced a dream feed which I give to Thomas at around 1030pm nightly and I eliminated that nasty habitual wake up of 4am by Tracy's waking to sleep theory -  so we’re now at bed by 7:00 – 7:30pm nightly and wake up usually around 6:00-6:30am don’t seem to be able to get him closer to a 7am wake-up.

This morning for example Thomas awoke at 6:00am and he was yelling out for food so I had to feed him, he gobbled up all 180ml of it.  In Tracy’s final book she shows a routine commencing baby’s day from 7:00am and so on – she comments that if baby wakes say at say 5:00am for a feed to feed baby and return to bed until 7:00am and I presume feed again at 7:00am (not sure on that point) – would this same suggestion apply for a 6:00am wake up?  I haven’t assumed so. 

What I intend to do today for example is work his routine as he started ie.;

6am feed
9am feed
12pm feed
3pm feed
6pm feed
10 – 11pm DF (somewhere in that time frame)

or do you think it would be better for me to try to extend his feeds on days such as these to a 7am wake up time table?

He’s 15 wo tomorrow (Thursday, 19 Jan) and I’ve decided that I’m going to start him on his 4 hour routine next Monday, Mondays are always good days to start new routines I’ve found,  he will be just shy of 16 weeks but I don’t imagine that will be a problem, do you?  He was a 2.5 week prem baby and in Tracy’s book she has commented on waiting until the baby would have turned 4 months but Thomas was a big boy at birth he weighted 8.6lb and he’s always been a good eater etc. so I think I may be able to start him a little early – do you agree?

I’m not looking forward to converting to the 4 hour routine – Thomas tends to tire sooner than he is due for bed and being a spirited child I don’t like him to get overtired and/or overstimulated as he has been partial to melt-downs – any suggestions would be greatly appreciated to get him used to a longer activity period.  Additionally as I am to increase his food intake at each of these feeds how much of an increase is recommended?  He currently takes 150ml per feed with a 120ml DF therefore his current daily intake is 870ml.

I was thinking of 180ml per feed x 4 = 720ml with a 180ml DF that would increase his daily intake to 900ml so it’s just a little more that what he’s currently getting or is that not enough?

I’m looking forward to your response.

Cheers Anna

[Deb_in_oz]

glad to hear things are going well.

abou the wake time - it is very common for lo to go 11hours overnight. my girls averaged 11 hours at that age with occasional stretches to 12 hours. the range for overnight sleep for those children sleeping through is 10-13h, which shows you that although 12 hours is the ideal and it does happen, it is considered "typical" if they are in the range.

Tracy uses a 7-7 routine as a guide and then expects you to adapt it to your household.  if they wake because they are hungry at 6-6:30you feed straight away. if they wake just because they have had enough sleep (which is a reasonable prospect after 11hours  ) they might want some awake time before breakfast feed (i know this is the case with my spirited one who will happily play until hunger finally hits her).

i saw Nikki replied on your other thread (this is why they recommend you only post on one board at a time...) and i agree with her method of adding a little time if they are happy to stretch so 6am, 9:15, 12:30 etc) you may find that with sleep times the 6am start still ends up with a 7-7:30 bedtime and many lo who struggle with A time can handle a little longer before bedtime (so may stay up for only 1hr 30 for earlier A times and then handle 2-3+ hours in the last stretch).

In Tracy’s final book she shows a routine commencing baby’s day from 7:00am and so on – she comments that if baby wakes say at say 5:00am for a feed to feed baby and return to bed until 7:00am and I presume feed again at 7:00am (not sure on that point) – would this same suggestion apply for a 6:00am wake up? I haven’t assumed so.

it is an accepted practice to treat all feeds pre-6am (6:30 for some families- you decide this...) as night feeds and do them in the dark and put back to sleep. after your agreed earliest start time (for me this has always been 6am) you treat it as a first feed of the day and greet them happily and turn on the light and start your day.  if baby feeds at 5am you can offer a half bottle so that  he is satisfied enough to go back to sleep but will wake still hungry when you get him up at 7/7:30. this works for many buit not all babies - if he has not fed in the night it is possible that he will not be satisfied with 1/2 a feed so that is a judgement call ./ trial and error (might want to bring in 2 small bottles  :lol: )  if he wakes hungry at 6 i would start at 6 as you have been doing, but that is me...

I’ve decided that I’m going to start him on his 4 hour routine next Monday, Mondays are always good days to start new routines I’ve found, he will be just shy of 16 weeks but I don’t imagine that will be a problem, do you? He was a 2.5 week prem baby and in Tracy’s book she has commented on waiting until the baby would have turned 4 months but Thomas was a big boy at birth he weighted 8.6lb and he’s always been a good eater etc. so I think I may be able to start him a little early – do you agree?

the only reason i woudl say to start a spirited baby on 4hr EASY at 4 months is if he is happily staying awake for at least 1hr 40 - 2 hrs and still going down for naps without a fuss and naps are not all 45 min. i know most spiriteds could stay awake for ages with no problem but the big issue is what happens when you do try for the naps.... so while "Thomas tends to tire sooner than he is due for bed " i woudl take this as a classic spirited sign to hold off on the transition.  watch him closely in a few weeks and see how he does with extending his A time.  we reached 1hr 30- 1hr 45 at 4-5 months and at 5 months dove in to 2hr A time as often as we could and she managed fine on 4hrs EASY by 5 -5 1/2 mo. I have heard some spiriteds can take as long as 6+ months to get to a true 4 hr EASY so don't rush him.  better to have consistent naps and avoid the overtiredness and meltdowns.  as he reaches 4-5 mo if his A time is still not at 2 hrs but his appetite is such that he is not hungry until 3.5 - 4hrs just switch to doing AEASY (so he wakes form a nap and plays for a bit, then eats, then plays a little more and then has his next nap)  this way he is not pushed to eat too early but he does not feed right before naps.

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated to get him used to a longer activity period

1 way that worked for us often when we saw she was starting to fade, we would take her outside for 10-15 min just to sit on our laps and watch the clouds, trees and birds... not much in the way of talking JUST chilling outside. then into her room for nappy change and swaddle etc and that woudl stretch her a good 15-20 min (this was a good tactic on days where she was very active so tired out extra early or days when we were in transition)
another variation on that is to limit your interaction with him during the last 20-30 min of playing. a midwife i met when Liv was on the cusp of 1hr 45 min A time told me not to worry about the types of toys i gave her (i was keeping them all low key) her theory was that it is all the interaction and chatting with the lo that overstimulates them- if a toy moves or makes noise it is in their control whetehr to keep playing with it or push it aside and pick up another one, but when we are in their faces and chatting to them all day THAT is the overstimulation in her opinion. on that basis she told me to leaveher on the floor playing for longer and sit nearby and relax.  you could see if that helps

I was thinking of 180ml per feed x 4 = 720ml with a 180ml DF that would increase his daily intake to 900ml so it’s just a little more that what he’s currently getting or is that not enough?

there is a formula to figure out how much to offer based on their weight. i cannot remember it but rememeber that at 4-5 mo i was offering 200 - 240ml per feed and she took anywhere from 140-240ml - i just offered this each time (wasteful but easier for me as her appetite really varied).