Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??

[magicbelly]

Jane Pitt -  i had a look at a resource book i have about holistic parenting. i'm sure you are aware that wheat and dairy intolerances contribute to the lg no. of hypersensitivities in society with eczema, asthma & ear infections on the rise it suggests holding out both wheat and dairy for at least 12-15mths, which i will be doing. by 15mths it is less likely kids will be intollerant. of course you have to ensure adequate calcuim comes from other sources and  sesame seeds (crushed) are the best due to their digestibility & mineral content ie. tahini other eg. sardines, spinich, almonds & cashew paste. these suggestions are safe to introduce after 9mths. i drink rice milk with added calcium. Magnesium in plants aids Ca+ absorption (apricots, spinich).

it makes the suggestion for bottle fed bubs to add a qtr tsp of bifidobacterium infantis (a beneficial micro-organism in lg instestine of bf infants) to milk before feeding. Eg. Natren Lifestart available in Aust. Remember to add after heating the formula or you will destroy the bacteria.

Also add a few drops of flaxseed oil after heating to ensure adequate Omega 3 intake.

Hope sleeping/eating/ecxema improves for you both with elimination of lactose based foods. best wishes.

[Mommy in Moose Jaw]

Wow, what a lot of great support out there!  I'm glad everyone is so honest too!  Ccjay I think I could have written your post today!  We had two 'perfect' nights and one where she woke up at 5:00am so I thought we had this licked and then last night, BOOM!  Same thing, up from 1:30 - 3:30 am.  I was on the verge of tears the whole time.  AND I had a hair appointment yesterday and my stylist has a baby just 6 weeks older than mine and was lamenting having to wake him up at 8am to get going!!!  He goes to bed at 7pm!  Those people should not be allowed to tell others about that! 

After that coversation and our tough night I was just so frustrated/disappointed, but like magicbelly I keep repeating the same thing over and over to myself, 'this will get better, just stick with it!'.  And then I see other posts about 11 month olds screaming at night, etc and wonder if this will ever change and if I will ever NOT feel like a zombie!

I think I can attribute our rough night last night to another bout of teething.  Today, dd was irritable, drooling, slight runny nose, looser stools, red cheeks, and less appetite.  So, tonight I gave her some Tempra before bed and we'll see if that helps.  Lately, if it's not a growth spurt, it's teething, or illness, or development.  Imagine how out of sorts and confused they must feel too!

Jane Pitt both my kids have had exzema, so if you want to PM me for any details on what has worked for us to manage and eliminate it, I'd be happy to offer what I have learned.  Both irritations have largely been lactose based, although dd is even more sensitive to external things like soap and lotion also.

Well, that's where things stand for these last few days, I'm sure it will change again, that's one thing I've learned to count on!  Thanks again for all the honesty and support out there, it really helps to know you're not the only tired mom out there!

[Sarah O]

Hello!

Thought I'd post a quick update.  It really seems true that regressions are universal.  After my earlier "Yahoo!!" post DS and I had a bad night again and then things seem to be steadily improving now. 

My DD is 100% back on track (she always used to be an amazing sleeper) so that's a relief.  DS is still usually waking around 2:30 and around 4:15, and then off and on from 5 until we get up (usually 6-6:30) but this is a MAJOR improvement over waking every 20-40 minutes x 2 babies!!!

Now my focus turns to my DD's biopsy on Jan 29th.  Thanks for your well wishes, it helps.

Sarah

[sarah brown]

Hi Guy's  not been around for a while things are a little hectic at the moment and by the time I gat to sit down it's time to go to bed.  My DS is getting a little better, Following his dream feed at 10.30 he doesn't stir until 4.00 ish so at least I'm getting a few hours in undisturbed and me and DH were at a 30th party on sat night so Ollie stayed at his nana's and Amy came with us so at last I had a fantastic nights sleep and lay in until 11.00 the next morning.  That should re-charge my batteries for a couple of months.  He rolled over on thursday for the first time as well(yipee!) and since then has been dragging himself round the floor like an SAS soilder, we are hopping this wears him out so much he sleeps through!!! speak soon, Sarah   :wink:

[magicbelly]

Hi again

Off the topic of sleeping through, Chloe was put down at 7pm last night and screamed loudly every 10-20min until 10pm df. something was definately wrong and i had to use the process of elimination to find out what. 

At 9pm I discovered a little front tooth that wasnt there at lunchtime. you can almost see our bubs grow in front of our eyes. a dose of paracemetol and she slept through to 7am. not yet 6 months this was a big surprise.

[pope2075]

Thank you thank you Mommy in Moose Jaw, you are a legend.

For 2 - 3 weeks my now 4.5 month DS has been waking every hour or so from about 1 am onwards and over the last week it seemed to be getting worse as he was even waking a couple of times after being put to bed at about 7 pm until his DF then again after that.  Needless to say I was getting pretty exhausted and very frustrated especially as he used to be a very good sleeper (even up to 8 or 9 hours) from about 6 weeks.

I had decided it could not be hunger as he was generally pretty easy to get back to sleep and would not eat very much the few times I had tried feeding him multiple times in the night.

I have been searching the BW threads now for a little while to see if anyone had come up with a solution.  I read your post yesterday about your sucess in turning this habit around and spent the day trying to pack as many calories in my DS as possible.  As he's still totally BF that meant a lot of feeds but what do you know - he went to sleep about 8.30 pm last night, woke for a DF about 11.30 pm and then woke again at 4 am when I fed him.  Other than that he slept without waking until just after 8 am!

Although its still only one night I am convinced that hunger must have been the main issue so I am pretty ecstatic.  With more sleep I also feel a million dollars today in comparison with how I have been feeling lately.

So thank you so much for your persistence in trying out various solutions and keeping us informed of your progress, so that people like me can benefit from your hard work.

[Jane Pitt]

Quick update for those still hanging in there....C seems to be (fingers crossed) back on track.  He has consistently slept through for the the last few nights so there is hope 

Mommy in Moose Jaw..... thanks for all your words of wisdom.  I'd love to take up you offer on the eczema.  We are currently still on anti-biotics to clear up the infections and a low dose steriod cream on the inflamed areas.  These are getting better by the day.  We have reduced his baths to every other day and use either Infracare (recommended by the Eczema society) or, I think it is Oilium junior in the bath.  He has Doublebase as the moisturiser.  I have started using Doublebase on top of the steriod cream, maybe you can tell me if that is OK?

Any other suggestions will be gratefully recieved.  I have already trawled the message boards for ideas.


Magicbelly...thanks too for your thoughts. Yes, thankfully he's OK with wheat and loves ALL veggies and fruit. 

Thanks

[Mommy in Moose Jaw]

Wow, thanks pope2075!  I was worried all my novels were just becoming eyesores!

I thought I would post a little update.  I wanted to wait a few days before posting to see if this was actually progress or a blip and now I'm leaning toward progress.  We have had another blissful 3 nights of sleeping straight through, but it actually happened accidentally.  In my last post I said dd was up from 1:30- 3:30 and the next night I gave Tempra before bed to see if that helped.  Well her sleep up the the dreamfeed was much better but she woke again at 1:30.  My plan was to give her Tempra again and see if that helped.  So as she woke up, I crept out of the room to go get the dropper and decided I had to pee (sorry for the details) and as I was walking back in the room, she turned her head to the side and tried to settle.  I froze in my tracks and ducked below the crib bumper (the dance of moms) and waited.  After a few crescendos, she put herself back to sleep!!  It took about 10-12 min but she did it.  She woke again at 4:00am and I decided to wait 10 min before responding and she put herself back to sleep again!  Each night since she seems to wake up at about the same time but she is putting herself back to sleep each time after 5-10 min.  I was asked a while ago if I was going in too soon and didn't think I was as I was only going when she had that sort of upset 'break' in her cry.  Well when she wakes up at those times, she starts out that way so I was scooting right over to help her back to sleep before she really woke up.  The other night, all that served to do was wake her up more! 

I had mentioned a while ago that when we did supportive sleep with her naps that eventually the 'support' became more disturbing than helpful and I learned to jsut let her be.  The same thing seems to have happened with the night wakings.

I continue to offer both breast twice at feedings and occasionally she takes the extra so I'm just making sure she gets as many calories as possible.  And with solids, I feed her until she refuses. 

For activity, we provide a little more stimulation than before.  We let her play in her exersaucer more and kick at this little gym that whirls and spins with each kick.  Pretty loud but now she seems to be able to handle it.  Baths are a little longer also and I don't have to keep big brother out of the picture at night time any more (talk about a bundle of energy).

For sleep I've found she is averaging about 45-60min more awake time per day than about a month ago.  Sometimes she wakes a little early, or cuts a nap short or skips her catnap but somehow she sleeps a little less than before.  I think she's still trying to organize a new sleep pattern.

So, all in all I think it was mostly hunger but we did change and increase her activity time also. 

I'm not going to assume this is solved as whenever I get comfortable it changes, but so far, that is what I've learned.

I'm eager to hear how everyone else is making out as well!

Sarah O how's dd making out with the biopsy?

[magicbelly]

(wow making this one a hot topic)

Hi again
Wanted to update if you are all still there because dd has reached new milestones and started night waking again:

1. turned 6 months 2 days ago
2. first tooth 4 days ago, SECOND tooth this morning!!! is this common?
3. started solids two days ago
4. wont resettle from 5.30am

Not sure where to start with her schedule. she has woken the past few nights between 3.30-4.30 and i can re-settle her. wakes again at 5.30 playing for the past few mornings also. this morning she woke 5.50am became inconsolable from 6am, i discovered the second tooth, gave pain relief and then she took a full bf at 6.15 and fell back asleep. i woke her again 7.15 to get back on schedule and she took another bf. i will give her solids and bf at her 11am feed today instead.

there doesn't appear to be any problems with solids and digestion so far. i am not sure if the waking from 5.30am is teething or now i am wondering about another growth spurt and she is actually hungry. usually i can hold out the food until 7am.  i know i said i was confident the 5.5mths stage was a growth spurt, now i am not sure. so easily do i forget about past stages when faced with a new one.

look forward to your comments, thanks.

[Katet]

Magic Belly... re growth spurts, well both my ds had on off growthspurts for over a month... apparently that is not unusual as the breast milk changes consistency at about the 6month mark to cope with the more active baby... so yes it could be part of the growthspurt & teething & the start of solids & probably getting more mobile too.

[sarah brown]

Hi,  I just wanted to update you on my progress with Ollie. Last night was night 2 of sleeping through yipee!! first night he went untill 5.30 then needing a gentle pat to carry on, but last night he went down at 7.20 had DF at 10.30 then woke at 7.15am.... I have waited 26 weeks 3 days for a night without one disturbance and it came i'm so excited...speak soon sarah

[Mommy in Moose Jaw]

Yeah!!!  Everyone's making progress.  magicbelly, I agree withkatet about the growth spurt.  DD has been on and off for this whole month.  She's fine for a couple days, then will need a feed at night maybe a day or two.  I keep offering extra at each bf and sometimes she takes it and sometimes she doesn't.  Solids range from 9-15 oz each day so some days she is definitely hungrier than others. 

Magicbelly, we were having sleep disturbances too like early mornings and wonky naps and it was remedied by switching dd to 2 naps.  She needs to stay awake about 3.5 hours between sleeps now, but is much happier and napping and waking properly again.  Makes the EASY 4+ hours so some awake times have 2 bfs and one solid feed, but it all works out in the end.

DD has slept through without intervention about 11 of the last 14 days!  Hopefully this holds for a little while, it is blissful to have enough energy to tackle the day!

[magicbelly]

Sarah Brown congratulations, glad to hear things are working for you.

Mommy in MJ & Katet thanks for the advice. I am topping up bf during the day as much as possible. Maximum awake time is slowely increasing from 1.4hr to 2 hrs now. Beyond 2hrs Chloe become difficult to get down so still has 2 sleeps and 1 nap daily but i note your advice and i think a change to her sleep cycles is ahead quite soon. i shall start increasing awake time when possible. Chloe slept through again last night so i agree that you you are both right on the mark.  teething doesnt seem to bother her too much. much appreciated again.

[pope2075]

Just an further update confirming that my good night's sleep wasn't a one off.  Although we had a rough night the other night with the start of a cold and the weather has been so hot here in Melbourne (the last few nights its been high 30s, up to 43 degrees during the day and 26/27 degrees (celsius) in my DS's bedroom overnight) he has not reverted back to waking every hour or so.  I am still feeding him more during the day and it seems to have done the trick.  It means I am not really on a 4 or even 3.5 hour EASY but it works so I am going with it.  So thank you again Mommy in Moose Jaw.  I am so glad I found this website and your thread!  In fact last night I couldn't sleep because it was so hot & humid (27 overnight but about 80% humidity) but DS seemed to manage!

[Sarah O]

Wanted to post an update myself:  my babes are sleeping quite well now too, and it's been about  a week of this.  Well, you have to exclude one night of hell where both babies were throwing up everything they'd ever eaten (it was like the Exorcist in the nursery) but other than their tummy bug, the nights seem to be much improved.  For me, I think it was just an "outgrowing it" thing rather than anything in particular that I did.

Good luck to everyone!!

Sarah