What would you do tonight?

[Carmela's Mom]

So waht do I do now???

Last night Carmela slept 5-6 hours.  She was up playing ALL night.  Today she went to bed at 12:15 because she coudln't stay awake anymore and slept for 1.5 hours.  She woke up at 1:45 and it's now 3:00 and already she's tired.  My husband just took her to the store to get her out a bit to give me a break. 

So now I know she's overtired (we already said we'll put her in at 6:30 but last night she went in at 7:00 and it did nothing)  and I know she's going to be up again tonight.  How do I break this cycle?  Do I send DH in tonight (that works like 25% of the time) or do I just ignore her? 

This is a vicious cycle and I have no clue how to break it.  I need major advice here.  I'm just about 19 weeks pregnant and TIRED.  I can't live with 3 hours sleep a night!

[Wilsmon]

So the blood work from the dr didn't show anything?  She is not waking up screaming or crying right? She just plays the whole time?

[Carmela's Mom]

No the blood work didn't show anything.  We are taking away all lactose products for one week to see if we see any difference (which I guarantee not) then we are doing an EEG to check her brain waves for seizures.....

As of right now the doc feels she has chronic clinical insomnia, which IMO is nothing more than "nothing is wrong with her"........ of course the doc didn't say that BUT!

Yes you are correct.  She does not cry at all.  She gets up and then you hear her talking, singing, playing.  After about 2 to 3 hours SOMETIMES she'll whimper as she starts to fall back asleep but that is rare.  The thing is if we don't go in we are GUARANTEED 2, 3 sometimes even 4 hours of playing (and she's loud enough that we can hear her and we are up during it), but once in a blue moon if my husband goes in that quiets her down and she'll settle to sleep.  He just goes in and says "it is nighttime.  Go to sleep"  ... and walks out.  We NEVER stay with her until she's asleep and never spend more than 2 minutes in there.

[Wilsmon]

Well, I was going to suggest that maybe if you just didn't go in that she would get tired of it after a few nights and quit.  Maybe if you guys put some white noise in your room so at least you could sleep.  I would also suggest if you did this to make sure she is secure in her room, maybe get a crib tent.   Not a good long term solution but maybe you could get caught up.

It is so unusual that she doesn't cry - just plays.  I have to get back to work now but I will be thinking about this and read some of the other sleep books I have to see if they offer any suggestions.

Last resort - but have you ever thought about giving her Benedryl or something to make her tired just for awhile and see if you can change the sleep pattern?  It could be that she is just in a viscious cyle of not enough sleep.

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

I don't know the history of your situation, but I've got a 2.5yr old who's always had a sleep issue of some sort (but nothing as extreme as what you're talking about).  I have recently brought a book on how to deal with sleep disturbances, insomnia, resetting the circadian rhythms etc in both adults and children.  It may be worth your while hunting a good sleep book down to get some other ideas outside of the BW philosophy to help you (I have also BWed right from the start and have not done any accidental parenting).  The book I have focuses on natural ways to combat it (I use homeopathy and that is the focus of this particular book, also covers foods to avoid and what ones to eat prior to sleep - it's called The Complete Guide to Natural Sleep by Dian Dincin Buchman, PhD.  There are so many books out there, so even if homeopathy doesn't interest you, I'm sure there will be others that will give some practical solutions and ways on resetting the clock.

Edited to add: I'm not suggesting another book with sleep training programmes, but a book that looks beyond just getting your child to sleep kwim?

HTH

[Carmela's Mom]

Thanks so much girls.  I love hearing about others in my situation (not that I wish it upon ANYONE but knowing I'm not alone helps!)

We've been dealing with this since Carmela's been born.  The really strange part is that she will do this for about a month or two, then stop for a week or two and then start again.  We do nothing different.  The last time she did this was when we didn't go in at all, and it went on for two months!  That is why this time I started sending in my husband. 

I'm always looking for a good book so thanks so much for the recommendation.  A book on insomnia is definitely what I need!  Thanks!

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

I also get a few good weeks or maybe a month at a stretch out of my son for no particular reason with no changes, I know how frustrating it is!  I have recently had 4 nights of sleep throughs and then last night he was up screaming 3 times again.

Definitely worth a look.  I finally have my 9mth old sleeping through the night and instead still have a 2.5yr old waking up - I don't think I've slept a whole nights sleep for 2yrs!  Because things aren't too consistent I never my own sleep rhythms sorted so still end up waking at odd hours...one day, one day.... :wink:

[jessica and emilys mummy]

Right.I'm going to start from scratch,can you tell me exactly what your whole days routine is and exactly what you do when you put her to bed.I'd like times as well if poss.
I'm sorry if this is a bit of a hassle,but I think it would really help me.

[Wilsmon]

O.K I am going to ask another dumb question.  I was reading in some of my other sleep books and there was nothing about insomnia for infants or toddlers, but it did have some guidelines for adults.  The first suggetion was a consistent bedtime but also a consistent wakeup time.  I am wondering if you get your dd up at the same time everyday?  I know when they have been up all night it is tempting to let them sleep in in the morning, but, with our ds we began waking him up at the same time every morning regardless of the night he had.  Sounds mean but when we started doing this is when he really began sleeping through the night more consistently.  We also make a big deal about the wake up - lights on, shouting "Good Morning" etc.

Another thing, I noticed you were doing some testing or elimination for allergies.  We had some friends that had a child you had trouble with sleep.  They finally contacted this organization and had some testing done.  They found out he was allergic to 52 different things!  This company will also do cosultations of your results.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com

You send for a kit and then send back a blood sample and then they test for hundreds of allergies.

Hope some of this helps!

[Carmela's Mom]

Im 19 weeks pregnant so I am petrified what its going to be like with two and her!  I have 5 months to figure it out  

Ok first our schedule.

We wake her up by 7:30 if she's not awake by then.  Most days she's up by 6-7 though.

So say 6-7 wake up -- play in crib until 7:30 (she's fine with this obviously)
7:45 - breakfast and play time with mommy a little
8:30 get dressed, brush teeth, Mama shower and she watches a little Elmo
9:00 playdates, errands, gym etc.
9:30 or 10:00 snack
11:00-11:30 home...play with dog while I get lunch ready
11:45 lunch
12:00 - ready stories with Mom, clean up, quiet play
12:30 bring upstairs brush teeth, read two stories, sing two songs, quick cuddle
12:45 nap (usually 1.5 to 1 hours and 45 mins)
2:30 out of crib
3:00 snack
3:30 outside play if weather permits
5:00 a little tv while I prepare dinner
5:30 dinner
6:00 bath
6:20 (used to be 6:30) downstairs, read books, clean up, more quiet time, snack
7:00 (this has been pushed to 6:45 the past two nights) brush teeth, read two stories, sing two songs, quick cuddle
7:00 in bed

Also with nap time.  We had it earlier and she just wouldn't fall asleep so we were dealing with either missed naps or a nap time of 2 p.m.  TOO LATE!  We found putting her in at 12:45 helped her go to sleep within 5 minutes!  YAY!

Bedtime was 7:30 and we pushed it up the past two nights to 7 p.m.  It hasn't helped any except that instead of waking at 6:30 she wakes at 6:15.  But still waking in the night.  When she sleeps through with no wakings she was doing 7:30 to 7:00!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Heaven..


Her allergies all came back negative.

[Carmela's Mom]

Also Carmela seems to play for 30 minutes when she goes in her crib - is that a sign of overtiredness?

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

How old is she?

So she's getting 5-6hrs at night and 1.5hrs during the day?

Without looking at specifics on when she sleeps etc, what would be her average "daily total" of sleep (including nights).  So even on nights where she might sleep longer but have more awake times, if you averaged out her daily total for the last 6mths, how many hours would you say she's having?

When you put her down for naps and bedtime is she completely awake - what happends directly before you lie her down for sleep (are you rocking or have any other sort of association going on), sorry if you've covered all of this before in other posts.  But like Sarah has suggested, maybe look at it afresh.  (Sarah, I hope you don't mind me butting in here?).

[Carmela's Mom]

Before bed and nap we always have quiet play downstairs (read books together)....then we say night night to daddy (or mommy if DH is putting her in).  Then we go upstairs and brush teeth, go in the room and we change her diaper, we go on the rocking chair...read two more books, sing two songs to her and cuddle for probably 2 minutes or so.  She's usually sleepy by then (yawning, rubbing eyes) and then we put her in.  She is never asleep and never totally drowsy but sleepy. 

She's 20 months old. 

The last six months.  We go through this phase for month or two and then it stops for a week or two.  So when she's not sleeping, she gets about 8 hours of sleep at night (broken up) and 1.5 hour nap.  When she is sleeping she gets 11 hours at night and 1.5-2 hour nap.  the difference in her personality, attention, ability to learn is AMAZING.  At her 18 month doctor visit, I remember telling the doctor she didn't even know 10 words.  This was during a HORRIBLE sleep period.  Then she slept for two weeks and now she's saying about 60 words!  In those two weeks she learned so much because she was fresh and awake.  It was truly amazing.  Now we've been back at this no sleep thing for two weeks and funny...she's still saying the words she knows, but hasn't learned a new word in the past 10 days or so...it catches up to her quick.

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

OK, how else is she as far as eating goes (I know your doing allergy testing and stuff), but she poops normally, growing heightwise and gaining weight obviously otherwise your doc would have pointed something out.  Has she been tested for anaemia (iron levels)?  That can cause awful night disturbances (is opposite in children apparently) - so rather than being lethargic as we normally think of low iron, it has a hyper affect on kids. 

I know what you mean by behaviour and learning being affected, I notice that too.  With us, when Nathan is getting over his sleep deprivation he goes from a daily total of 9hrs (often just the night sleep - with multiple wakings - and no nap), to 11hrs at night and a 2hr nap - go figure?  :roll:

I'm off to get a homeopathic remedy now for Nathan to help with his night terrors/screaming/sleeptalking/walking...

[Carmela's Mom]

She does suffer from constipation but I *think* we have it under control with adding Metamucil to her diet.  She goes every other day and she isn't trying to go constantly like before.  She is a big girl (29 lbs at 18 months) but so was my DH.  She is growing great.  As for eating, she was ALWAYS a healthy eater.  LOVED her veggies to the point where I asked the doc if it was normal that she wouldn't eat anything but veggies....boy do I miss those days because in the past few weeks I can't get her to eat any of it!  My ped promises me that is normal ... that they will find a favorite food from time to time and change constantly.  But all in all she's a good eater.

i just don't get these kids.  Don't they realize how much happier they are when tehy just sleep???