What would you do tonight?

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

Well your routine looks pretty normal to me and nothing jumps out. 

Maybe Sarah will spot something in there. 

Just a thought, but if she's playing in her bed for 30mins before falling asleep I don't think that's necessarily overtiredness, maybe she just likes the quiet winddown on her own.  If this is the case, can you get her into bed a half hour sooner again, so the fall asleep time is closer to where you want it? Therefore trying to buy an extra half hour at the start of the night before that early wake up.  I know once I can get a good sleep into Nathan the whole lot improves - later wake ups start to happen, longer naps etc - it's just being able to get on top of it enough (which you know already  :wink: ). 

Is her afternoon pretty relaxed leading up to bedtime?  What types of foods do you offer her for dinner?  How close is dinner to bedtime (most of my reading suggests a good 2-3hrs to have dinner completed before sleep)?

[Carmela's Mom]

Dinner is completed by 5:45 and bedtime is 7:30...lately more like 7 though.  Having dinner any earlier isn't really good for us though because DH works until we start. 

Thanks so much for everyone's help.  I really am looking at each reply and trying to take these things into consideration!

[Wilsmon]

Wondered if you have ever considered a "reward" system for the nights she does sleep good.  A sticker board that after so many she gets a reward.  Maybe she is too young still.  I am trying to remember what my daughter was like at that age - she is 5 now and ds is only 11 mo.

Just another suggestion to throw out there.

Really not sure what else to suggest.

[Carmela's Mom]

No she's a little too young.  She would never understand.  I think it's a great and maybe in another year.  Thanks.

Last night she slept from 7:15 to 10:30...woke up briefly.  Went back to sleep and was up from 12 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.  At 3, I don't even kno wif she went to sleep!  We finally turned on our tv pretty loud so we couldn't hear her.  At 7:00 I woke up and she's in there still making the same noises so I'm figuring she fell asleep at some point or other, but I really have no clue.

[Carmela's Mom]

I don't know if its the "right" thing to do but it's 8:30 and I just put CArmela back in her crib to see if she'll go back to sleep.  She is so damn tired.  Rubbing her eyes and being a bit nasty.  She's actually crying right now so I doubt she'll fall asleep but I'm at wits end here and don't know how to break this cycle.

[Wilsmon]

How many different sleep specialists did you try to contact?  I looked in our phone book and one of the hospitals has a sleep clinic.  Just wondering if you considered contacting your hospital to see if they could help?

[Carmela's Mom]

I called two local hosopitals and both need referrals from my pediatrician and my ped said she didn't think they'd take Carmela serious before she turned two so she said to wait a few months. I'm actually changing pediatricians I think for a completely different reason so I'm going to see what the new one says.

I forgot to add...last night we sent DH in when she was up.  She didn't listen to him either (made me feel a bit better hehe)...so tonight we are opting for the ignore method.  We won't go in before 7 a.m. unless she's crying a real real cry.

[sacmommy]

Jackie, I wish I could help you. I just can't imagine how tired and frustrated you must be, and pregnant on top of it! My kids don't have phases like Carmela, but every once in awhile one of them will wake at night and if it's longer than 45 minutes or so I start getting worried ... so I've gone for the sleepy medicine which someone suggested. What if you tried Benadryl or some equivalent for 1-3 nights to see if it just got her back on track? I've lent out my other favorite sleep book but when I get it back this week I'll check if there's any other hints on what to do in this situation.

Hope your night goes better. Maybe you and your husband should take turns so one of you gets a good night sleep every other night? One can wear earplugs, then the other? You guys need some rest. LOL.

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

Hi Carmela's mom.  Could I please ask what the ignore method is?  I assumed from your post that she wakes at 3am and wants to be up for the day? Does she cry or call out for you in the night or happily play in bed? When ever I've needed to help my ds sort out his night time issues I've taken the BW way which is responding to him to get him through the phase that he's going through.  It may seem that it doesn't work or taking forever, but what I've usually found is that more wakings during the night can often be attributed to "needing" me more during the daytime - so it's like he's transferred his need to get the attention some other way - does that make sense?  Just something to think about anyway.   

What I would suggest is going right back to basics with her.  Have a good bedtime routine.  It sounds like she goes to bed happily which is GREAT! But EVERY time she calls out for you during the night (even if she wants to be awake at that time), respond immediately, don't try and wait for her to go quiet, because I think if there's a need (even if you don't consider it a need), she's not going to go quiet, if she does it's more going to be giving up but her need is still unfulfilled.  Keep things low key, no lights on, no talking to her and leave the room, if she calls out, go straight back in and repeat.  This can be a long process, but if her trust has been broken at any point, you will need to get past that before she will feel comfortable sleeping through.  This could take quite a few weeks and you will need to be absolutely consistent in your response to her to gain back her trust to know that you will go to her if she needs you. I'm not saying her trust has been broken as I don't know your situation, but just something else to consider. 

If you have the BW book there is a plan on gently removing yourself from the room (ie sleeping on the floor next to her to get her back to sleep).  Personally I think the key is GETTING her back to sleep during the night - don't worry too much about how at this point.  You want her to be well rested and on track with napping during the day and around 11hrs at night.  Once you've got that going then you can remove yourself from the picture, it will be tough time, but you need to be consistent with it.  Please don't try the CIO method which could end up damaging the situation further.

HTH

[CanadianMom]

Sending you ((((((((sleep vibes)))))))))).
My oldest ds did not sleep through the night until he was 18 mos.  We tried everything with him.  On the advice of my pediatrician (I was also pregnant at the time) I gave him Benadryl every night for 3 weeks, and then weaned him off it decreasing the dose for 1 week, and he has slept through the night ever since ( wakes if he has to pee and then goes back to bed).  I am not advising this for every sleep issue, however, it seems to me that you have tried other conventional methods with no success.  When your this tired sometimes anything is worth a try.

Good luck.
Lisa

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

The only thing I would caution about using Benadryl that way (in case anyone wants to give it a go!) is that in some babies, it has the opposite effect.  It may make them sleepy at first, and even sleep better for the first few nights, but in some kids, after that it actually gets them wired.  This happened with a friend of mine (who's a nurse) as well as with dd when she had a cold and we used it.  She would be fine the first night, then the next, she'd be up for 3 or 4 hrs in the wee hours, wanting to play and NOTHING would get her back to sleep!  Just my 2 cents...

[Diego's Mama]

Have you considered something like sleep apnea?  You would need to take her to a pediatric sleep clinic if you feel there may be a real sleep issue.  From what I've read, they're more common than you may think.  Does she sleep with her mouth open?

My 18monther has begun with having difficulty settling down for naps.  I place him on his side, against the crib rails, and hold him in place.  At first he squirmed (of course) and screamed (of course), but I quietly kept telling him, "I love you, it's just sleep time, lay down and go to sleep." When he stopped squirming and began settling I'd stop the verbal cue, but kept my hands on him.  Slowly he'd fall asleep and after he was clearly asleep I'd gradually and slowly lift my hands.  He needed me to help him settle down as he couldn't settle himself.  This is a modified form of pu/pd.

I really have suspicion of a sleep problem though -- it's very uncommon for a baby to sleep such a small amount at night. I'd seriously look into a sleep clinic and would caution you against using any medication unless under the supervision of your pediatrician.

[Carmela's Mom]

The BW clearly does not work because my daughter does not need us.  She is waking to play and only play.  She wakes anywhere from 10 p.m. to about 2 p.m. and will play for several hours.  I am a SAHM and spend a lot of time with her and can't see spending more or else I'd be with her 24/7!!!!!!!!!!

Tonight we went to my sister's and I kind of threw the entire routine out the window on purpose. It's not working for the past few months so I figured what the hell. She stayed up until 8 p.m. when she fell asleep on the way home.  I am praying that maybe that will throw off her routine of waking.  We'll see

Thanks so much for all the advice. You don't know how much I appreciate it.  I'm dying to try the Benadryl but I am so afraid that like someone else mentioned, it would work great the first night and then BAM she'd get wired (it happens with cold meds).....

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

The BW clearly does not work because my daughter does not need us.  She is waking to play and only play.  She wakes anywhere from 10 p.m. to about 2 p.m. and will play for several hours.  I am a SAHM and spend a lot of time with her and can't see spending more or else I'd be with her 24/7!!!!!!!!!

I think this is why I did my original post suggesting that other reasons may be the cause of the problem. 

I too am a SAHM, but I know I get too busy to really play and give him my undivided attention for decent chunks of time sometimes, so I guess I was coming from my experience, not saying that it was the case for you just something to consider. 

Are you able to get a 2nd paediatrician opinion to get a referral?  (sorry I have no idea how the system works over there so not sure if that suggestion is helpful).

All the best.

[Ami ~ 3 girls' mom]

I'm off to get a homeopathic remedy now for Nathan to help with his night terrors/screaming/sleeptalking/walking...

Calms Forte?  We use 300 mcg melatonin a night here.  Ashlyn wakes up for hours at a time too, but she's screaming and not playing.   :?