Author Topic: CAN'T GET 3 MO TO SLEEP EARLIER  (Read 3597 times)

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Offline Aarismom

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CAN'T GET 3 MO TO SLEEP EARLIER
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2006, 18:32:45 pm »
Heya guys, sorry I've been away. I've been dealing with a sick family all week :(

Lets see if I can answer some questions...

Nightwakings are often the cause of either too little sleep at night and/or too little sleep during the day. At three months, your lo should be getting around 10-12 hours of sleep at night. I think mine was up to 12 at that point...but after a rocky start, she discovered she loved her sleep. "A" time should be somewhere between an hour and 1.5 hours...although 1.5 hours is really pushing it. Three naps a day, 2 of 1.5-2 hours and one catnap of 45 mins or more should do it for the day. Early bedtimes often eliminate night wakings over a few weeks time as your lo's get the night rest they need. Total sleep for a 3 month old is 15+ hours. However, many lo's need 1-2 feedings a night yet for a few more months. This can be controlled by giving a dream feed between 9 and 11, or picking a time at night to get up and feed. Three months is also a major growth spurt period, so you're going to have a few days of sleep in general, eat like there's no tomorrow, then a few days where it seems like they can never get enough sleep.

Ok, that's the "textbook" advice based on research/experience. That said...

Obviously, not every lo is going to fit that mold (mine does but that's beside the point lol), and you have to tweak that advice based on your lo's temprement and your instinct. I've been whispering since Aariana was 6 weeks old, and the more I read posts on this site, the more I see certain trends and such that aren't in the books. I know around 3 months is when my lo's nap problems began to fester. Sometimes she would take 45 min naps, sometimes she wouldn't, where previous to this she was taking great naps. Progressively they got worse until she went several days with just 3-4 45 min naps (peaked at 4 months). I learned that this was a side effect of day sleep development, and by 5.5 months her naps were back to normal. Now, this didn't affect night sleep for my lo, but I know it has a tendency to affect night sleep. As for total sleep...well, tbh, I think 13+ hours is enough for a lot of lo's, although 15 is optimal. I had a few days in there where she "crashed"...those are the days she made up lost sleep, since sleep loss is cumulative.

Often your lo will be ready for bed by the early hour of 7 pm (or even earlier...mine has a bedtime of 6 pm), but often when they do fall asleep it is treated like a nap instead, since they get use to waking after this nap and staying up. It takes time and work to get them use to this being night time sleep time. The other possibility is (which almost sounds like greentomato's problem) that they really do thrive on going to bed later and getting up later to start the day. This happens in some, but not the majority of lo's.

Basically, go with your instinct and the temprament of your lo. If your lo isn't getting enough sleep, they'll be fussy, won't eat right, seem to be constantly tired but won't go back to sleep (overtired). If they're getting enough sleep, it'll be mostly opposite. The same is true for naps; if they wake up crying, then you know they haven't had enough sleep. If they wake up playing, cooing, generally happy, even after 45 mins, then they've had enough sleep.

BTW, I use Weissbluth's book for a lot of the basic info about sleeping; he's one of the leading doc's on infant sleep. I do recommend it as far as general info goes; but I'd stick to whispering when it comes to teaching your lo to actually get to sleep on their own.

Also...I was never really able to get out of the house very much until after  5 months or so, when her "A" time was up to 2 hours. Up until that point I was focused on naps all the time. It sucked, but it's amazing how quickly time passes when one day runs right into the other :P I DID get out the stroller and take her for a short walk every day, more for me to get out of the house. Sunlight in the early afternoon is supposed to help sleep anyway.

Sorry this is so long!! Hope something in here helps :P

*HUGS*
Sonya =P


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Offline dannygirl

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CAN'T GET 3 MO TO SLEEP EARLIER
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2006, 19:39:56 pm »
Thanks for the info. I will have to wait it out and see what happens. Allisons naps can range from 30 minutes to almots 2 hours and I never know what to expect. Some of the problem I think is from teething.
Kaylene
Allison 10/20/05


Offline lkc

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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2006, 20:10:06 pm »
Hi--

Yes, it can be so frustrating and rather depressing at times.  I have to constantly tell myself that tomorrow is another day.  I have found that anything can happen -- good or bad.  Even when I try to put dd down for a nap or bedtime, she might seem wide awake but the next minute she will put herself to sleep.  Also, unfortunately, vice versa. 

Anyway, all we can do is to try our best.  I am trying really hard to have enough strength until it will get a little easier.  Everyone keeps saying it will so there must be some truth to that.  In the meantime, I have been trying to stay consistent as much as I can and for the most part, dd seems to be doing okay.

I would keep on doing what you have been doing and see what happens.  Sometimes you have to really give it more time, depending on the individual baby.  I know I felt like it was forever with my LO.  It has been three weeks and I still feel like we have a long way to go.  Don't get me wrong, there are results but I guess I would like to see more.  With that said, I think that is where I had to change my thinking.  In order for my sanity and happiness, I am trying to stay focused as much as possible with BW but I am also trying to not expect too much too soon.  I am going to try not to overanyalyze every problem and spend so much time thinking about the bad stuff. 

Hope it goes better for you all soon.  And for me too!

Lori

Offline lkc

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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2006, 20:19:00 pm »
Aarismom -- What would you suggest doing in order to get our LO's to sleep at bedtime?  How do you get out of the vicious cycle?  You mentioned time and work in order for them to figure it out its not a nap, right?  How much time do the books say on this?

BTW, dd slept through last night's bedtime.  We put her to bed at 8 pm. and she slept all the way through until 7:30 am this morning!!  We have DF for almost three weeks now at 10:45 and she would usually wake at least once in the night.  But she didn't last night--what gives?!!  I hope I didn't jinx it but cross your fingers.  To top that off, she went down easily for her am nap, and extended it herself at the 45 min. mark for a total of 2 hours.  She went down even faster for her second nap, but is stuggling to put herself back to sleep after that 45 min. mark.  We'll see what happens.

Lori

Offline Aarismom

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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2006, 03:02:32 am »
Lori--

The most I can suggest is consistancy in wind downs, both nap and bedtime. For a few weeks do as much as you can to keep them consistant. Obviously there will be some days where that's just not possible...this is fine, as long as most days are the same. There really is no magic formula to fix it, unfortunately...it's just a matter of getting them to come to expect what comes next, but lo's often have a mind of their own :P

As far as how long it will last, things don't really settle down sleep wise until day and night sleep work themselves out, which happens somewhere at the end of the 4th month, sometimes lasting well into the 5th. If your lo was born premature, it could take longer. Until then, you'll pull your hair out, get upset, wonder why things aren't working themselves out yet, blame yourself for your lo's sleeping problems, until finally, you just come to the conclusion that no matter what you do, you just have to roll with it with the knowledge that it will work itself out (this written by my experience lol). You know by the end of the 4th month, your lo should be up to around 2 hours of "A" time total. Use that as a guide, but understand that they're not all created equal, and that by the end of the 4th month, it could be less, it could be more...it just depends on your lo.

Hehe that said, congrats on the great night!! Now you know what time bedtime is. I'd put her to bed even earlier (maybe a half hour or so) than that for a few nights and see what happens. If she refuses it, then at least she'll hopefully go to sleep at this bedtime. The reason she took great naps is because she got all the rest she needed in the night...biologically, if they get enough sleep at night, they'll be rested and relaxed enough to take naps during the day (assuming they're not put down overtired). At least that's what the books say. The reverse is true as well. Sleep begets sleep, and the body always finds a way to catch up on lost sleep.

Hope the trend continues!! Oh...and take some time out for you, even if it means sacrificing a nap one day a week. You won't believe how your mood affects your child's mood and willingness to sleep because of it. I learned that the hard way :P

*HUGS*
Sonya =P


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Offline greentomato

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CAN'T GET 3 MO TO SLEEP EARLIER
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2006, 12:42:19 pm »
Thanks for all this advice. I've taken some of the suggestions (making sure she knows when its morning; a regular routine for bedtime; a feed before bedtime; not too much stimulation in the afternoon/evening; looking out for tired signs) and my baby went to bed last night and slept through to her dream feed for the first time ever, so we obviously did something right! It took a little while  to get her to sleep (I think she was overtired - she loves kicking about in the bath and it wears her out!) and I missed the sleep window so will try and catch it earlier tonight. Anyway she eventually went to sleep at 8.30pm and didn't wake till 11pm for her dream feed. It was great for me and my husband to have an evening together for a change - even if it did involve a takeaway and the tv!

However, she then woke at 3.30am for a feed, which she hasn't done for ages - she normally sleeps until 6 or 7am.  So although I had a nice evening, didn't enjoy being woken in the night...

Anyway I think this is progress and will keep at it, and hope that once we've got her bedtime sorted out we can work on extending her night-time sleep.
Mother to Ella, born 31 October 2005

Offline dannygirl

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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2006, 15:44:14 pm »
greentomato-that sounded just like Allison last night, She went to bed early, at 7:30, got restless at 11 but paci settled her down, and then she woke at 3:30 and 6:30 and then got up in a very good mood at 8:30. No matter what time we put her to bed she is up at 8:30 or 9, except for a few times when she was exhausted.
Kaylene
Allison 10/20/05


Offline greentomato

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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2006, 17:02:26 pm »
Hopefully we'll all have a good night tonight as well...! its good to know that babies are the same all over the world (I'm in England)

It always seems two steps forward, one step back though. After Ella's breakthrough evening last night, she has had terrible naps all day - the usual things - waking up after 45 minutes, the jolts, startling at the slightest sound. can't wait for my husband to get home!
Mother to Ella, born 31 October 2005

Offline dhaksha1979

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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2006, 20:30:39 pm »
Congrats Greentomato!  I think because your lo is growing she needs that feed in the middle. My lo is is now 3.5 mo and still wakes in the middle for a feed.  As long as she goes straight back to sleep I don't mind.  Have to keep trying to get her to bed earlier... 

I think it's best to get out of the house during at least one nap time esp if your lo is not a great napper.  I know the weather is not nice at the moment but trust me, it's better than listening to crying!

May I ask what you do for your bedtime routine?

Regards
D
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Offline lkc

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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2006, 21:35:09 pm »
Sonya--

Thank you so much for all helpful info.  It is so easy to understand when someone like you spells it out like that.  You are so knowledgeable on the subject...is this from reading the book you mentioned?  You said Weisbluth?  What is the title?  It definitely made things easier for me to cope with it the last few days after reading your posts.  I have an architectural background and I guess my mind is very detail-oriented and I always have to know how to get from step 1 to step 2; otherwise I go crazy.  I really appreciate you taking the time.

Last night, dd went down easy, and stirred at the 45 min. mark but put herself back to sleep.  It was so nice to have time with DH two nights in a row.  However, unlike the night before she did wake at 5:30 for a feed.  When they are ready to sleep through the night, does it happen gradually or all of a sudden?  It seems like dd will sleep through a night or two, then wake for a night, then sleep through, then wake.   I can't figure out if its habitual or hunger yet. 

greentomato-- Congrats on the good night.  Sounds like you are on your way to more nights with DH.  I sure hope I am too.  Even if it is just watching tv!! 

kaylene--Congrats to you too.  Even though Allison woke during the night, that's great she was in a great mood in the am.  I hope the teething is going okay too.  No teething for us yet.  Although, Mattea is almost rolling over like Allison and always sucking her hands and drooling a lot.  At least she has found some self-soothing techniques to help herself sleep. 

Lori

Offline Aarismom

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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2006, 22:00:18 pm »
Hehe about 50 percent of it is because of the book, "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Dr. Marc Weissbluth, the other 50 percent comes from the BW books, the knowledgable ladies on this site, internet research, and my own experience. It's amazing what happens when a group of women (and a few men lol) get together, report their own experiences, and encourage and help each other out. So much knowledge is gained just by browsing the forums and seeing what is working and what isn't. Over time, you begin to see trends, and when you read the current research on it, you find that it supports what you're seeing to a degree. This site literally saved my sanity many a time. It really all comes down to knowing your lo, which is what whispering is all about.

While research can help with that, only you know your lo best. There are a lot of books and literature out there on the subject; I know some of the ladies here use some of the other books as support research. I prefer Weissbluth, as he goes into great detail really on how the sleep process works, and what you can do to fix certain things. I just stick with the BW way when it comes to actually teaching your lo to get to sleep on his/her own.

As for sleeping through the night, what happens is really up to your lo. Some just start sleeping through; others take a more gradual approach. I've heard of some that don't start sleeping through until they're 6 months or older. However, functionally, almost all babies don't need nutrition anymore through the night after 9 months. Some books actually say 6 months is the cut off (I know the BW books do). If they do take nutrition after that, it's usually a habit. But I guess a very small population still need it, especially if prematurity comes into play.

Good luck, and I hope things continue to improve for all of you!!

*HUGS*
Sonya =P


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Offline greentomato

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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2006, 15:58:20 pm »
Thanks all for your encouragement. Last night things went OK again - Ella went to sleep at 8.45pm eventually, it took about an hour to get her to sleep but it was so worth it for me and hubby to have an hour or two of peace and quiet! She woke at 4am and then we had to wake her at 7am for her feed (and to keep her in a regular routine) so not too bad really.

Dhaksha - As for the routine - we are still working it out really but I feed her, then my husband gets in from work, has a cuddle then gives her a bath and change into her night clothes, if she's in a good mood and not too cranky then we'll give her a little massage, then its quiet time and I'll give her another short feed, then we sit with her in the nursery - she usually starts crying at this point (I think she senses whats going to happen next!) and we calm her down (usual techniques) until she goes to sleep... fingers crossed - so far this has only worked twice and as we know babies change as soon as something seems to work!

you were right about getting out of the house though - I went to the shops and knew she'd sleep in the car (she won't go to sleep in her nursery but will happily sleep as she's being trundled round the supermarket!)

Considering her age (12 weeks) and that she's breastfed, I don't think  her night wakings are too bad really.

Jane
Mother to Ella, born 31 October 2005