Author Topic: early waking 10 1/2 month old  (Read 6173 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« on: January 14, 2006, 00:50:27 am »
I know that this is a repetitive topic so I do apologize....

Our almost 11 month old has been sleeping from 7 - 7 for several months (more or less)  He had a terrible cold for a week and started waking at 5 am (and earlier) all stuffed up (poor guy).  Now he is feeling better.  But, three times this week he has woken up at 5 am.  He shrieks with delight for a while in his crib, jumps around and has a party (for a while)  Then the delight turns to crying.  He is clearly not ready to start his day as he rubs his eyes and wants to go back to sleep a short time later.  I hold off nursing him until 6....as soon as he nurses he is ready to go back to sleep a short time later.  Calorie intake is not an issue...he is a huge eater (25 lbs)  Should I keep him up from 5 am to his first nap time of 9:30 am so he gets the message not to wake early.  I'm going back to work in a couple of weeks so I don't want this to continue if I can help it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Zelka


FrasersMum

  • Guest
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2006, 05:00:01 am »
Hi Zelka

We are currently experiencing the same thing with my 9 1/2 MO.  Not much fun is it...

I would support the idea trying to keep the first nap at 9.30am if possible.  Getting him into the habit of an earlier nap will only exacerbate the problem.  Fingers crossed if you persist witht the later nap time those early waking will peter out (that's what we are trying so fingers crossed it will work for both of us  :D )

HTH and good luck

Offline mattandcindy

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 793
  • Location:
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2006, 23:08:16 pm »
Hi.
Our little Abigail started doing that at 8.5 months and we just recently got her off of it.
Here are a couple suggestions:
1)What is your lo's daytime schedule? How many naps is he taking? How much daytime sleep is he getting? Maybe he is getting too much daytime sleep or taking his last nap too late?
2)Could it be teething? Have you tried maybe waking him up at about 4am and giving Tylenol/Advil?

With Abigail we tried EVERYTHING and I mean everything. What it finally ended up being for us was to tweak her daytime schedule. She has previously been doing 3 naps and I had to transition her to two naps. And I had to be really consistent about what times those two naps were. If she did wake for the day early, I still enforced keeping her up until her normal first naptime (which was really difficult sometimes) but after being consistent with this for a week or so, it somewhat sorted itself out. She still isn't back to her normal 7pm to 7am but she is consistently sleeping until at least 6:15am (which was better than her 4-5am wakeup).
What I would do when she woke up early is leave her in there until her playing/whining turned into crying. I didn't want her to get the idea that she was getting out of bed right when she woke up. Plus, that gave me about 45 minutes to try and wake up.
There are so many people who have/ or had this problem I wonder if it is developmental somewhat also. With Abigail it really got bad right after daylights savings!
Hope that helps some. Let us know how you are coming along.
Cindy





Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2006, 02:40:20 am »
Jo,
how "funny", both our boys up for two hours.  You mentioned that Fraser woke at 5:30 and went back down at 6:30....did you try to get him to stay awake until later?  I'm just confused as to whether I should let Nikolas go back to sleep an hour later if he wakes at 5ish or if I should try to keep him up until after 9.....what do you think?  As for the teething possibility, he cut his fifth tooth last week...I don't think another one is coming :?  Also, I'm thinking part of it is because he's recently figured out how to pull up in his crib and also how to crawl proficiently... :?

Cindy,
 thanks for the advice....what you wrote makes a lot of sense.  Nikolas' normal schedule is as follows:

7 (wake and bf)

8 (breakfast)

9/9:30 (sleep 1 1/2 hrs)

12 (lunch)

1:30/2 (sleep for 1 1/2 hrs or 45 min)
(snack upon waking or sometime after)

5 (supper)

6:30 (bath, bf)

7 (sleep)

He normally gets 2 1/2 - 3 hours of daytime sleep.  The other day (coincidentally the day of the night he woke at five) he actually slept for almost 4 hours during the day broken into two naps.  So if your theory about too much daytime sleep is correct it makes sense for that incident.  However, he's done this on occassions when he's had less daytime sleep.
Of course, he could be getting more teeth....he only has five so I'm sure that's a possibility.  I've never tried Motrin in the middle of the night unless I've known that he's teething but I guess it wouldn't hurt.

I'll keep everyone posted :)


Offline mattandcindy

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 793
  • Location:
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2006, 04:11:42 am »
Your schedule looks pretty good. I don't think that is the issue. The only thing I would say is to not him sleep past a particular time. With Abigail this time is 3:45pm. If I let her sleep later, it pushes her whole evening back and it seems the later she goes to sleep, the earlier she wakes up...

Abigail only has 2 teeth so you never know with teething.

How long has this been going on for you?
Cindy





FrasersMum

  • Guest
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2006, 08:12:33 am »
Hi Zelka

What I do is - any waking before 6 am I try really really hard to get him back to sleep - try to feed back to sleep and if that doesn't work then whatever I can do.  If it's after 6 then we up and start our day - so at our house, that cut off is 6am.  Sometimes I can get him back to sleep and sometimes I can't but I always try because I don't want him to think that waking up earlier than then will mean his day starts then.  If that makes sense!

Cheers
Jo

Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2006, 10:48:15 am »
HI....well it's 5:30 am here and I've heard Nikolas on and off for a bit since 5 am.  He's not crying...yet!  I'm really hoping that this is a developmental thing.  If it doesn't seem to pass after a week, I may try the wake to sleep method...never done it before.  I could get him now and nurse him and I know he would probably go back down but I don't know if that's what I want to be doing when I go back to work next month.  However, if this continues I may have to.

Cindy, everthing was fine on a 7 to 7 schedule for months.  Nikolas got a tooth and a really bad cold after New Year's so things went poopy then.  I still haven't had any issues putting him down for 7...he's always out like a light.  And I have a gut feeling that if I put him down later at night that he'd still wake at 5.  He's already tired after only 10 hours of sleep so I think any less would be terrible.  Oh, there he goes jumping again...it's 5:45 now so I'll see if I can keep him in there till at least 6.  I'll let you know how our looong morning goes before nap time!!

Zelka


Offline james030405

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 22
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 592
  • James' birthday is 3rd April 2005
  • Location: Brisbane, Qld. Australia
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2006, 10:58:42 am »
Hi ladies,

I have been reading with interest your little problem wiht early wakings.  This has been a problem of ours for months.  If I get himup before 6am, I try not to feed so he doesn't get use to it.  The last few days, he has woken around5:15/5:30am but we have left him and he plays till 6am. 

I will be very interested to see if any methods work. Zelka, your routine is very much like ours except we do bath at around 5:30/6pm straight after dinner.  Did you find it made a lot of difference bathing just before bed?  I might have to give this a go. 

In regards to keeping him awake till nap #1, I have beendoing naps at 9am and 2pm.  these were working well for awhile, but I have been having increasing difficulties in keeping him awake till 9am when he wakes so early, although he can do 4hr A time during the day.  I have also noticed that if i put him down at 8:30am he will sleep for 1.5hrs, but if I keep him at 9am, he may only do 45mins :roll:

Let me know how you go.  I am watching with very keen interest :lol:

Lisa mum to James my textbook/spirited koala
[url=http://lilypie.com][/url]

Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2006, 19:45:29 pm »
A little update from this morning....Nikolas actually fell back asleep on his own before 6.  I didn't go in his room at all....he did whine but not cry...I hope that's not mean.  Anyway, he slept until 8:15.  So in total he slept 12 hours plus the hour he was up in his crib.  Hopefully things will start improving.  However, our schedule today was off because he woke so late.  As a result we had no morning nap so his first and only nap was from 12-1:30.  I would have like to have kep him up till 1 and start then but he was zonked.

Lisa, if your little guy naps better at 8:30 compared to 9, I would keep it.  Nikolas is the same....when overtired he wakes at 45 minutes (that's just my thought though)  If you would like to do 9, then I would increase it in small increments, say 5 minutes.  Maybe 8:35 one day and 5 minutes later the next...just a thought.  As for the bath, we've always done this at 6:35.....we're usually done and dressed by 6:50....then I nurse him and he falls asleep within a couple of minutes of being put in his crib.  I think this works because he's always been used to this.  We've never had problems putting him to sleep (fingers crossed) but he does suck his thumb so that is a huge factor I think.

That's it for now!  Good luck to all in our boat!
Zelka


Offline mattandcindy

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 793
  • Location:
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2006, 19:48:32 pm »
Zelka-
I am so glad he slept later today! That is great. And NO, I don't think it is mean to leave them in there if they are only whining.
I am wondering though (down the line of course) if the late wakings continue if you will either have to adjust the schedule some to still fit in two naps or if you will have to wake him a little earlier in the morning so he doesn't keep skipping the am nap. But not to worry at this point. Just enjoy that he is doing better!

Oh, and btw, our little ones have the same birthday! What time was he born? Abigail was born at 6:16pm!!!
Cindy





Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2006, 20:04:01 pm »
Hi Cindy....yes, if he would continue sleeping late then I would have to figure naps out....I would think 1 would be the best option but I'm sure I won't have the "problem" of him sleeping 13 hours every night.  Mind you, I'm going back to work :( in February so I would have to wake him in order to bring him to my parents/inlaws on time.  So I'm sure we'll still be into two naps for a while now that I think about it.

Nikolas was born at 1:24 am...he was actually 3 weeks early too but still weighed 7,11 (thank goodness he was early!!) 

Thanks for the reply


Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2006, 18:36:47 pm »
Just a little update ..... Nikolas woke at 6 this morning but stayed happily in his crib until almost 7..I'm not really sure if he was truly awake at 6 . I did hear him briefly but not again until 20 minutes later.  I'm hoping he's getting back on track.  Jo, how is Fraser doing???


FrasersMum

  • Guest
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2006, 23:35:29 pm »
Hi Zelka

We are still battling those early wakings - this morning 5.30am.  I fed and tried hard to get him back to sleep but couldn't - so he started his day at about 6.15 (when I gave up and let DH get him up and I went back to bed until 7  :lol: )

I'm hoping this is a developmental thing and that it will just sort itself out a little - otherwise I will be trying Wake to Sleep and see how that goes.

Thanks for checking in on me!  Hope Nikolas keeps getting back on track for you.

Jo

Offline Pominoz

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2006, 01:14:36 am »
Hi there

I hope you don't mind me barging on your thread, but I'm the slightly desperate mother of a very early waker!  (I'm new to this forum but have been posting on a couple of IVF forums for ages).

My dd is almost 9 months.  For the past three months, since she's started sleeping through, she's woken between 4.30 and 5am.  I've tried pretty much everything - feeding her and trying to resettle, trying to resettle with the dummy, ignoring her, etc. etc.  As you know, there is no resettling these early wakers.  Trouble is that Tamsin doesn't just lie there playing and chattering, she is yelling to get up.  At the moment I'm letting her get up at 5.30am (I just can't face getting up before that), but this morning I had to listen to her crying (on an off) from 4.45.  I just can't do it any more.  As a last ditch attempt I think I might try the wake-to-sleep.  Do you think it works?  What time do you think I should wake her (or rather "stir" her), if she wakes for the day at 4.45am?  How about 4am?

If that fails, I think I am just going to have to get up and start the day at 4.45am. 

I was hoping that things might change when her "up" time between naps increases.  At the moment she can only manage 3 hours, so we are still on 3 naps a day.  But some of your babies are older than Tamsin, and their increased up time doesn't seem to have helped.  How much of this problem do you attribute to daytime nap structure?

I've also tried adjusting the bedtime to no avail - she usually goes down at 6.30am.  I tried putting her to bed at 7, but she still woke at the same time and was just so overtired.

Aaargh!  When will it end?

Thanks for listening

Emma

Offline Pominoz

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2006, 01:33:08 am »
Me again.  Just re-reading all your posts - do you all think I should force Tamsin onto 2 naps?  I did try it but she got so tired, as it means her staying up at least 3.5 hours between naps.  At the moment she goes down for her first nap at 7.45.  I'm just worried that if I put her down at say 8.30 and do 2 naps, there will be a long stretch at the end of the day.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2006, 01:35:52 am »
Jo, what happens when you don't feed Fraser right away?  Do you think he's associatiing his first feed with getting up for the day?  I'm assuming he's crying and that's why you're trying this.  Have you ever tried keeping him up from 5ish till his first normal nap time the way you suggested we do?  I know that waking before 6 is crazy but maybe it would help :? ? 

Things on our front are still going well (fingers crossed)  Nikolas woke at 7:20 and still went down for his first nap at 9:30.  I'm hoping we're getting there now.  However, I noticed a soon to be sixth tooth so I'm sure we'll be back to some hairy nights...you just can't win.


Emma, what are the lengths and times of Tamsin's three naps?  As for wake to sleep, I've never tried it but if you do a search on this site there has been so much success with it.   When Tamsin wakes early, how long after is her first normal nap time?  Jo, Fraser's mum, gave the advice of keeping baby up from wake time to normal nap time (in small increments if necessary)  So far this has worked for us.  I guess it makes sense  because then baby won't wake early if she won't be rewarded with an immediate nap.  (does that make sense?)  Anyhow, keep us posted!


Offline Pominoz

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2006, 01:44:26 am »
Zelka - a typical day for Tamsin would be:

4.45am Wake up ( :roll:  :cry: )
7.45am Down for nap - nap for 1.5 hours
9.15am Get up
12 midday Down for nap - nap either for 1.5 hours or 45 mins
Around 3.30-4pm (depending on length of lunchtime nap) - 45 minute nap
6.30ish - bedtime

The trouble is that trying to keep her up to say 8.30am is hellish.  Then she naps until 10am, and we've got to get through another 3.5 hour stretch until 1.30am, then a fairly long stretch until bedtime  :?  :?  :? .

This issue is doing my head in!

As for your own situation, 7.20 sounds like a dream!  Well done!  Sounds like the timing of the first nap is really the key....

Offline Katet

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 608
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 14364
  • Sydney Australia
  • Location: Sydney
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2006, 01:49:56 am »
Emma, looking at your dd age, I think it is a pretty good indication that it is time to move to 2 naps, most babies do between 6 & 9months old.

What we are doing (when not stressed by 4 teeth coming through at once) is stretching the morning out by 10mins every 3 days & then the next nap out a bit & then he has a 10-15min 3rd nap... you will find you may need to put your lo to bed a bit earlier for awhile after you move to 2 naps, but I think that will help solve the problem.

What I find I have to do is stop Liam moving at about 10mins before the "old nap time" & then carry him around/sit & read/cuddle etc, just do low key activities up until when I actually do put him down... this is what I had to do with ds#1 when going to 1 nap, so kind of know it worked there when transitioning to 1 nap, so think it should for 3 to 2.
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline Pominoz

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2006, 01:59:50 am »
Kate, I'm sure you're right, that moving to 2 naps might be the key. 

I think I'll try putting her down at 8am tomorrow morning.  She'll probably nap until 9.30.  Then I'll try to get her through until 1pm for the next one.  If I'm lucky she might nap until 3.  Then a very early bedtime.

I think it's going to be painful for a couple of weeks, but hopefully it'll mean an improvement all round in the long term.

This site is great BTW.  Wish I'd discovered it earlier.  I love the specialised boards.

Cheers

FrasersMum

  • Guest
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2006, 02:01:32 am »
Quote (selected)
Sounds like the timing of the first nap is really the key....

You are absolutely correct!!  Now I just have to convince DH (who looks after Fraser during the day) to hold out that nap to be a bit later  :roll:

Zelka - if I don't feed Fraser at that time, he is jumping up and down in the cot desperate to start his day.  If I do feed him, 2 out of 3 times he will easily fall back to sleep.  Sometimes I have to work hard to get him back to sleep and other times he just won't.  We always keep him up until at least 9 for the first nap (even if he wakes at 5).  I'm sure we'll get there...  Teething again at the moment so that always throws a spanner in the works  :lol:

Emma - an overtired baby will wake even earlier so be cautious on the moving to 2 naps thing.  I would definitely try W2S because you have a regular waking time - it absolutely can work (depends on the reasons causing the waking of course) but if it is habitual W2S can be very successful.  I would suggest try to see.  The key will be - wake 1 hour before the regular wake up time, stir her but don't wake her up, and continue for 3 days (at least) to break the habit.

Good luck!

Offline Katet

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 608
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 14364
  • Sydney Australia
  • Location: Sydney
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2006, 02:13:21 am »
As Jo said an overtired baby it can go the opposite, so make sure you do the change gradually.

Jo you could tell dh that when he is ready to put Fraser down add a 5min cuddle to it & you will "reward him with a cuddle" when Fraser starts waking up after 6am  :lol:  :lol:
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

FrasersMum

  • Guest
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2006, 02:15:31 am »
Great suggestion Kate - will give that a go!!  :lol:

Offline mattandcindy

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 793
  • Location:
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2006, 04:07:21 am »
Emma-
I agree that changing to 2 naps is the key here.
It helped with Abigail-didn't "cure" the problem but helped.
The first week of doing it was prett hellish but she eventually got the hand of it and started sleeping later in the morning and then extending the awake time wasn't as bad.
And I definitely think the time from their last nap until bedtime is the hardest time for all babies and moms. Everyone I know has to deal with a somewhat grumpy baby during this time-Just trying to let you know it is "normal" for them to be grumpy in the evening.
HTH and that you get some good sleep!
Cindy





Offline james030405

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 22
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 592
  • James' birthday is 3rd April 2005
  • Location: Brisbane, Qld. Australia
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2006, 04:10:13 am »
I am not sure if I should be posting or not - I don't want to jinx anything, but every since the weekend, we have been later wake ups.  He is waking at 6am but is happy to play till 6:30am. 

When we were having earlier wake ups, ie 5-5:30am I often did try and feed him, but I think James prefers to ease into the day (not unlike his mother :lol: ).  If I try and give him a drink this early, it can take FOREVER for him to finish it.  I have over the last couple of days been getting him up at 6:30am and he plays till 7 when it is time for breakfast.  I have been giving him his milk with his breakfast.

Like I said, I hope I am not jinxing it by posting it, I will let you know tomorrow :roll: .

So hopefully, it is a developmental thing and he is slowly coming out of it.  we are getting between 10-11hrs a night :D

Lisa
[url=http://lilypie.com][/url]

Offline mattandcindy

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 18
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 793
  • Location:
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2006, 04:19:58 am »
Lisa
That is great that it is getting better! 11.5 hrs is "normal" right now so he is getting there!
I hope you didn't jinx it too. :D
Cindy





Offline Pominoz

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2006, 09:04:01 am »
Well I'm off to bed, and going to set my alarm for 3.45am in order to do wake-to-sleep.  I'm quite excited about it - how sad is that?  :wink:

Glad to read that a lot of you seem to be having later wakings - gives me hope that we can get there too.

Sweet dreams everyone

Emma

Offline Katet

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 608
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 14364
  • Sydney Australia
  • Location: Sydney
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2006, 09:35:11 am »
Emma, just worked out the pom-in-oz bit... sleep deprivation makes the brain slow :cry:

come & join on Aussie chat tomorrow night about 6.30-10.30pm Sydney time... link is in the lounge forum
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline Pominoz

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2006, 19:01:47 pm »
Thanks Kate - I'll do that!  My dh is out at a work function tonight so I'll have a moment.  I have to be in bed by about 8.30 mind you  :wink: .

Yes, I'm from the UK but have lived in Sydney since 1998.  Love it, but miss the family, especially now that we have the lo.  My mum arrives in 3 weeks time for a holiday - can't wait.

Well we had an absolute shocker this morning  :cry: .  I set the alarm for 3.45 and did wake-to-sleep.  She just stirred and turned over a bit, and it all looked great.  But then she woke for the day at 4.30am  :shock:  :cry: .  There was no re-settling.  She wasn't too unhappy until about 4.50, so I got up and fed her (we are still bf'ing), and put her back into her cot in the vain hope that she may be tired enough to go back to sleep.  No such luck.  She was OK for another 20 mins, but at 5.10 she started crying so we were up for the day.  I actually got straight up and showered, as I can no longer stand hanging around in my PJ's wishing I was still in bed.  There is a cafe down the road that opens at 6am, so we shall go down there and I am going to down the biggest coffee they can make for me (we don't bf again until lunchtime  :wink: ). 

I think despite that I will try to hold out until 8am to put her down for the first nap.  I do think that the 2 naps is they key, it's just so hard to get there when the waking is this early.  I think I'm just going to have to force it and risk the poor little thing getting overtired.

Aaaargh!  Hope you all had better mornings. 

Cheers

Emma

Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2006, 19:22:40 pm »
Emma, just so curious as to how the morning and day has been going....what if you just prolonged the awake time in increments before the first nap in case her being overtired backfires?  Just a thought...but then again if you're trying for two naps that would be hard to do.  Oh, I just wish I had the perfect advice for you!  Keep us posted!


Offline Pominoz

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2006, 21:14:31 pm »
Hi Zelka - thanks for checking in on us.  We made it through until 8am, so that's 15 minutes later than her usual first nap time.  If by some miracle she slept until 10am then I would try for just one other nap today (at 1.30), but I think it's more likely she will sleep until 9.30am, so we will probably have to squeeze in another two.

We seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place - 3 naps is too much and causes the early waking, but 2 is not enough. 

I have a plan though (this must be "Plan Z"  :roll: ).  For the next 3 mornings we're going to do 8am for the first nap (and 3-nap days), then the next 3 mornings after that 8.15 for the first nap (and 3-nap days).  May have to wake her sometimes from naps in order to fit the 3 naps in.  Then, after a week, we'll do 8.30am for the first nap and move onto 2 nap days, no matter what.  She'll be 9 months and 1 week by then so I'm just praying her "up time" will be increasing.

I am so tired - feel like I have jetlag - you know, when all your hours are messed up.

Anyway, at least I've got Plan Z to cling to.

Thanks for your support!

Emm

Offline Katet

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 608
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 14364
  • Sydney Australia
  • Location: Sydney
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2006, 21:29:49 pm »
Emma, where in Sydney are you? My Sis is an Aussie in UK... althought technically she is a pom as we are duel citizens & have UK passports.

Well Liam was up 2x for full on feeds, but slept until after 7.15am... pitty Aiden wakes at 6.30 on the dot.

I think Liam's prob is teething, there are 2 just through & another 2 red & swollen gums... also yesterday his meals were kind of messed up, so I think he missed a bit on the bf side & he had a really late 3rd nap... 4hours of awake time before as it took me over an hour to get him to nap... can't wait until he gets to 2 naps properly... but then it will be a mess with Aiden on 1 nap... can't get it right in this Mummy game :lol:
dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline Pominoz

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2006, 22:02:30 pm »
Quote (selected)
can't get it right in this Mummy game

Kate, can anybody??  I'm sure you are a fantastic mum.  It must be very hard with two very young ones.  The trouble is that it is such an inexact science.....there is only a very vague "norm" and they all deviate so widely from it.  I swear it's the most wonderful job in the world but also the hardest.

We live in Rozelle, in the Inner West.  How about you?  We are going for citizenship soon so will also have both Pommie and Aussie passports (Tamsin has both already!).  We may decide to move back to England eventually (love Oz but can't stand being so far away from the families), but if we are Aussie citizens at least we can to and fro easily between the 2 countries. 

Your sister is like my alter-ego - she would have to have the handle "Aussieinpommieland"  :lol:

I have a question for Kate and any other mums of 2 or more - is this nasty early waking scenario likely to happen when the bubs move from 2 naps to 1?  If so, is there anything that can be done to prevent it?! 

Cheers all

Emma (9am and feels like midday already!)

Offline debandbrian

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 7
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1011
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2006, 20:35:06 pm »
Ok, I'm jumping in on this thread in hopes that someone will be able to point us in the right direction....as we must eliminate this 5 am wakeup!!!!!!!!
Hopefully this won't be too long of an explanation, but here goes...

DS started sleeping through in October, but has always had a 5 am wakeup. He is very very scrawny for his age (just under 16 lbs at 9 1/2 mos) - so I've always been happy and willing to give him that 5 am feed. We were in a pretty good routine before the holidays of feeding at 5 then he'd sleep for 1 1/2 to 2 more hours. All was well.

Well, over the holidays with travel and everything that wakeup started creeping back little by little and he was up at 4:30, then 4, then 3:30...things were spiralling out of control!!! At his 9 mo checkup, I told his doc about this, and she said that he didn't need the 5 am feeding, despite the fact that she wants him to put on weight pronto. She suggested a bottle of water (I knew he'd never go for that, as he's never taken to a bottle no matter what's in it), or letting him cry, or doing whatever to get him to go back to sleep without the feed.
So we set out with having dh go in and soothe him to sleep. We eliminated the feed, but it's been over a week now and he's still waking up (with the exception of one night, where he slept 8 pm to 6 am hours without a peep - I thought I'd won the lottery!!). For a few of the nights he's put himself back to sleep with a whimper here and there, but most of the nights - or I guess I should say mornings - it's full-out crying pretty quickly.

So here's the dilemma...do I try wake to sleep, or do I try moving his 3 naps to 2 - which, btw are not necessarily a sufficient amount of sleep as we've been plagued by the 30 minute nap problem which I've been trying (with little success) to fix.

I would be more than willing to start the day at 5 am if he were well rested, but he's miserable. And dh has to get up at 6 for work, so if we could even just make it that extra hour that would work too. I have problems with 'night wakings' myself, so right now I feel like I need to be in bed by about 6 pm in order to get 8 decent hours myself!!!!!!!!!!

At the moment, with 2 naps of about 80 mins each (but rarely straight through - I often have to help him go back to sleep part way through) and a cat nap at about 4:30 pm, he can barely keep his head up past 7:30. I know in general he's just not getting enough sleep, but I just don't know what to do for him (and us).

Thanks for reading......any insight we could get would be wonderful!
Deborah



Offline Pominoz

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2006, 21:57:23 pm »
Hi Deborah

I think you are having exactly the same problem as us - that your ds really needs to go onto a 2 nap schedule but isn't quite ready for it.

I am pretty sure that the key (for us, and maybe for you) is to try to make the first nap as late as possible.  My dd has been waking between 4.30 and 5am, then going back down for a nap at 7.45.  She has been having to have 3 naps, as her day is so long that with her current awake time (about 3 hours), 2 is just not enough.  After getting advice from this thread I am pushing her first nap forward until 8.30.  She sleeps until 10, then she goes back down again at 1.30 for another 1.5 hours.  She goes to bed at about 6.15.  It's pretty tiring for her, but she is managing OK.  And this morning she woke up at 5am, which sounds abysmal but is better than her usual 4.45am.

It sounds as though it might be harder for you because your ds has shorter naps.  Can you outline a typical day, giving the actual times that he would probably go down for naps?

It's hard isn't it?  It's exhausting getting up at that time every day.  I usually go to bed at 9.30, but last night I just really wanted to stay up and spend some time with dh.  I went to bed at 10.30 (it's pathetic but that feels late to me now), and today I'm bushed!

Take care

Emma

Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Re: early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2006, 22:35:41 pm »
HI Deb...I don't have much time right now but hang in there...I wonder if you'd get help too if you posted this on the naps forum too.  I'll write more later tonight!!


Offline Katet

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 608
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 14364
  • Sydney Australia
  • Location: Sydney
Re: early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2006, 09:22:16 am »
Deborah

your ds is a few weeks older than Liam & I have the benefit of having been through this before.

My thought is at 8.5 months the textbook sleeping would be pretty close to

7am - wake
feeds (milk & solids)
10am sleep 1.5 hours
feeds (milk & solids
2.30pm sleep 1-1.5 hours
4pm feed milk
6pm solids
bath
7pm milk & bed

Ok for me it is
between 6 &7 wake up & feed... sometimes back to sleep
9am nap 45mins-1.5 hours
10 (on wake up if longer sleep) bf
noon solids
12.45/1pm nap - 2 hours
3pm bf
5.15pm solids
6.45pm bath
7pm bf
7.15 bed
sometimes have a night feed

My routine is this way so I can get both my toddler & baby sleeping at the same time & still do playgroup & swimming lessons otherwise I would have the more "traditonal" textbook patterns.

What I wouls suggest is to try & keep your lo up at least 2.5 hours from the morning wake up, but keep it as low key as you can from first wakeup to "ideal wake up" - I sit & cuddle & rock Liam if he is awake before 6.45am (toddler get up time). Then when you get close to the nap time, keep it as low key as possible. try to get the lengths between naps to at least 2.5hours & closer to 3 if you can.  I have been having to have bedtime at 6.30pm sometimes as the last nap is early, but that doesn't result in an earlier wakeup... later to bed can sometimes give early wakeups...more often with boys than girls too.

dc1 July 03, dc2 May 05

Offline debandbrian

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 7
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1011
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2006, 13:36:09 pm »
Thanks for the replies everyone.
I think we are on to something with the 2 naps. DH and I were backtracking in our minds - when he had the great night on Monday, he'd not had a late nap that day - I think he still had 3, but the first one was quite early and short because we had swimming from 10 - 10:30. So he had his second nap soon after we got home (11ish?) and the 3rd one was earlier than normal (maybe 2ish?) That night was the night he slept 8 - 6 straight through.
Yesterday he also didn't have a late afternoon nap - just because he didn't seem to need it. He was exhausted by 6:30, but we held him off until 7 then did bedtime a bit early and he was asleep at 7:40. He actually woke up several times in the night - 9pm, midnight, 4am - which is not normal for him at this point - but he only moaned for a minute or two and then put himself back to sleep. His final wakeup was 6:15 this morning - which is just fine by me.

So here's the thing - he is sooooooo sleepy 2 1/2 hours after wakeup, which puts his am nap at about 8;30 or 9 (it's 8:30 now and he just went to sleep). I don't want him to be cranky, but I really need to push back both the morning and the afternoon nap. I guess I'll just keep trying to add 10 min increments to the awake time and see where it goes from there....starting tomorrow, as dh has to go to a funeral today (an old employee of my FIL - dh just wants to pay respects so no need for condolences to us) so we are going to combo it with lunch with the IL's and a trip to toys r us as we desperately need to get a baby gate - all of this is about 30 mins from our little town. We're not so big on outings, so anytime we do trek out it throws everything off. But I digress!!

OK, I'll keep you posted. I think going from 3 to 2 naps really is the key - hopefully we won't be too unbearable in the process. Thanks again - you all are genius!!
Deborah



Offline Pominoz

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2006, 08:39:13 am »
Deborah - just wondering how your transition to 2 naps is going?

We seem to be managing OK.  Tamsin has woken at 5am for the past 2 days, which is a slight improvement on 4.45.  Then she has had naps of 1.5 hours at 8.30am and 1.30pm.  It's definitely tiring for her, and she's going to bed about 6.15pm, but she's doing great.  I'm really hoping for a slightly later wake up time soon - if we make 5.15am I'll be delighted!

Cheers

Emma

Offline debandbrian

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 7
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 1011
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: early waking 10 1/2 month old
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2006, 01:02:34 am »
Thanks Emma for asking.
Today it just plain didn't happen...

Yesterday just after lunch ds started having a bit of a sniffle, and by bedtime his nostrils were faucets!!
He was up several times - I actually rocked him back to sleep at midnight, something he hasn't needed in a long time, nor does he let ME do (what with the whole wanting to nurse thing...but I guess he really wasn't feeling well!!!) The other times he just whimpered and put himself back to sleep.

Well, this morning he woke at 5:45 but was in good spirits, so we just got up and started our day. He napped from 8-9 am (which might've been longer if the &^%$# dogs hadn't started to bark). This was actually perfect timing for our swimming class which starts at 10 - because he had a cold, I wasn't sure if I was going to take him or not, but since he was in a good mood I figured the nap time was a sign that we should go. Anyways, he had nap #2 soon after we got home - from 11:30 - 1, and seemed sleepy again at 3 so I tried to put him down but as soon as we started to wind down he perked up and showed no interest in sleeping. I thought if he were going to have a third nap that this would be better than later, but no luck. No surprise, he did get tired again and slept from 4:30 - 5:15.

DH is putting him to bed right now (it's almost 8 here) which is back to his normal bedtime. I have no idea what is going to happen tonight, so we will go from there. The 5:45 was fine, I could live with that if today is going to be the norm...we'll see.
I have decided though that I am not going to make myself too crazy since he is sick. And, dh is going out of town next week so I am going to be on my own for 3 nights...I may end up throwing all of my work out the window just to survive.

Let me know how things progress for you. I kept trying to get on to this board today but just got distracted every time. I was curious to know what the best nap times would be if he were only having 2 a day, and sleeping 8 pm to 6 am (he seems to only need 10 hrs...though I think if I could lengthen the nighttime by a half hour or more, he'd be a bit happier)????

OK, I'm off to bed myself, keep your fingers crossed that it's a good night, and good luck in your pursuits!
Deborah