Naps dissapearing at 6 months-update, help!

[Diegos Mama]

I think the breastmilk's relaxing him and that's he's dependent upon it for helping to settle to sleep.

I would give him a feed twenty minutes before putting him down, make sure he's good and tired and work on patt/shh IN THE CRIB and not do pu/pd which may stimulate him.

Have you used pat/shh before?

Make the room very dark.
Buy him a sleepsack so you don't need to worry about covers falling off.
Leave him be if he's not crying (may want to read about the Mantra Cry in the new book)
Need to be INCREDIBLY consistent here as you break the breast/sleep association

Now, of course, it could be something as simple as cutting new teeth or having just started solids, but the breastfeeding right before sleep is worth working on, because it's likely that's an issue too.

Just what jumps out at me......................... all suggestions of course.

[Cosmogirl]

Diego's mama
Thanks for your help!
I 've been trying for the last 2 days not to BF before naps.  He is taking it really well, he hasn't made a fuss since I stopped. 
I'll take today as an exemple.
I got him upstairs for his nap because he was rubbing his eyes.  Got there, took his blanket, wrapped him in, sat in the rocking chair, and sang lullyby for what 10 mintues.  He was calm, but awake. I took him in his crib, and 10 minutes after, he was asleep.  Again, slept 30 minutes on the dot.

The difference today is that he is overexhasuted.  When he woke up form his last nap, he started crying maybe 5 mintues after.  I went it, and could see he was tired.  So I tryied the shh/pat thing.  He finally stopped crying, but once he did, he didn't fell asleep, he started wanting to play with me.  So I left the room, and maybe 10 mintues later, he started crying again.  Went back in, did the shh/patt thing, and again, he is in his room awake, playing in his crib.

He has a really dark blind that makes the room really dark.
I'll check the Mantra cry, I guess I'm not there just yet in my reading.
I dunno if it is a tooth or what, but I sure hope it is about to end, because I can see how my boy is tired, and I really don,t know how to help him anymore.

[Diegos Mama]

Hmmm, is he spirited?

I do know lots of mothers find that an overtired baby leads to nightwakings and goofy naps.  I've never personally experienced this, but I know it sure can be true.

You know, if he's been on four naps until now, I betcha he's always been sort of a 45 minute napper.  Have you tried wake to sleep?  Also in the new book.

[Cosmogirl]

Well, I have always seen him as an angel baby.  He usually never fusses (except when he is overtired) he adapt super well to all situation, never is startled, plays in his bed or alone anytime.  I'd take 100 like him...He is a very good kid, he is just not able to take back the sleep he is loosing.

I do know lots of mothers find that an overtired baby leads to nightwakings and goofy naps

He IS like that.  When he gets overtired, his naps shorten, and so his nights.  IMO he is waking up after 30 minutes of nap BECAUSE he is overtired.  He was an excellent napper. He used to nap like 1.5-2 hours per nap at like 3 months, and then around 4 months started to shorten the nap.  I really thought it was normal, because he dropped a nap.  And then around 4.5 month, he started having this new trend that it would take him forever to fall asleep.  He was NEVER fussing in his bed, but it could take him up to 1 hour and plus sometimes to fall asleep.  I didn't know if it was because he was overtired, or if he was ready to srop a nap.  So I tried with the overtired option, because his nap getting shorter was, at that point, the only reason why is nap would get shorter.  But even with an earlier bedtime, and a rigourous routine, it didn't work.  He started sleeping 30 mintues at a time.  So at that point, I thought it was time to drop the 4th nap, and consolodate his sleep into 2 good naps, and one catnap.  And from then on, Hell started.  I tried to get him up longer, so that he would consolidate his sleep.  Here we are today, he does stay up longer, but he has not consolidated his naps.  So he is abslutely overtired.  I see all the signs. When I put him to bed at night, he wakes up an hour later.  I don't need to go to him, he falls back asleep on his own, but that is the best sign for me knowing that he is overtired.  He isn't able to nap long, and I honnestly don't think it is related to BF, or nap routine or anything, I think that it is because he is overtired.  And so I'm stuck in this vicious circle where he doesn't nap well which is getting him overtired, and thus not able to fall asleep and stay asleep, thus not napping well...
I don,t know how to help him get out of that.
It is a good thing I have such a good baby, because otherwise, it would be a living nightmare every single day and night!

I haven't tried wake to sleep, although I seen it yesterday in the book.  Today was not a good day, so I didn,t have time to read.  But I think that is my last resort.  I need to find a way to lenghten his naps to brake the circle.  Then maybe his naps will be as long as they should be, and I'll be able to get him unto the schedule, because right now, every single day, we are totally off...

Thansk for your help, I just can hope that things will be back on track soon!

[Diegos Mama]

It sounds like you're really able to pinpoint the problem.  Okay, so fastforward to it not being breastfeeding issue, but an overtired one.  Here's what Tracy would tell you to do:

1.)  If he's not crying when he wakes up, leave him be. Even if he's alone goofing around in bed for forty-five minutes, leave him be.  He may fall back to sleep and surprise you. 
***Might you be rushing in too soon?
***Does he typicall cry?  What does he do when he wakes?
***Do you use a monitor? If so, shut it off during the day.  Only go when he's truly crying and you'll hear that without a monitor.

2.)  Try wake to sleep.  He's waking as he comes out of a sleep cycle, so by gently (and I do mean incredibly gently) bringing him back to semiconsciousness, he should slip back to sleep and then sleep past his normal wakeup time.  You want to just barely make him stir.  Rub his tummy for a moment, stroke his forehead.  He doesn't need to open his eyes, maybe just roll over or show that he's just slightly coming out of his deeper sleep. If he opens his eyes, DUCK! Don't let him see you!   

My third suggestion was going to be to pat/shh in the bed if he's crying until his nap is typically over, but I'd like to see answers to number 1 first.

[Cosmogirl]

Thanks!

1) He typically never cry when he wakes up.  He did it yesterday, but that was just a major sign of overtiredness.  I usually never go, unless he becomes hysterical, and I can see that he is not going to be able to fall back to sleep on his own.  99% of the time it works ( that is when he wakes up crying...). He falls back on his own.  TO tell you honnestly, I think I'd rather that he wakes up crying, because then I'd have a chance to send him back sleeping, where as when he wakes up happy, forget it, he is never going to fall back asleep. I have already tried to leave him there, in his bed, because he wasn't crying, so I figured he didn't really need me, I wanted to see if he would fall back asleep.  He finally did, at his next nap, which was 1:45 later...From there I realised that I can't leave him there for 1:45 mintues, I mean he is going to spent the whole day in his crib

***so I guess what I said might answer your first point...I really don't rush in! 

****Not a cryier!  When he wakes, he coos for a couple of minutes, and then starts to play in his bed, so makes playing sound. (he taps when his feet on his matress, lift his feets in the air, plays with his pacifier...look around, sing...)

*** I do have a monitor downstairs, but I use it only to see what is going on.  I never go into his room except if he is hystrical.  If he is gently crying, but not freaking out, I don't go.  When I go, trust me, I think the neigbour must know he is crying...

2)I think that is what I need to try at this point.  Because obvisouly PU/PD doesn't apply to us.

If he opens his eyes, DUCK! Don't let him see you!   

Ummm I can see we are going to have fun with this!!!

Oh and about the mantra cry, I read about this yesterday.  He does that ALL THE TIME.  Usually when he starts doing that he will falls asleep eventually, although sometimes he does it, and he doesn't fall asleep.  But I never go when he does this. I don't think he is calling for help...

[Cosmogirl]

today schedule so far...
went to bed at 5:30 last night.
up: 6:45, he was exhausted!!! He never gets up that late usually.
E;7:00
A: from 7:30 to 8:30
Routine: 8:30-8:45
bed:8:45. calm but awake
it is currently 9:56.  He hasn't slept yet.  He is in his bed, again, not sleeping, not crying.  I went there to make sure he didn't have the blankets stuck in his face or something after an hour of being there, he didn't see me, I sneeked out, and still nothing is going on.  So obviously, he ain't going to take that nap...I can't pu/pd, he isn't crying, and forget about waking to sleep, he isn't sleeping. the day is going to be throw off again.  I was hoping that it would have been a good one since he had such a good night!

 
I really don't know anymore, I MUST be doing something wrong.  I'm such a bad mom.

[Cosmogirl]

well, it has been there for 2 hours. He never slept. I went to pick him up like it says in the book at the time he would be waking up.   I'll try to do like the book says, and keep him awake until the next nap time.  He is going to be exhausted.  I'm going to pay big time for time.   

[Cosmogirl]

So he finally slept.  I got him to bed at 11:45, after our usual routine.  I let him fall asleep, and thencame back to his room.  So I watched him sleep.

After maybe 20 minutes, he stired.  He was obviously trying to fall back asleep.  He was grunting, looking for his thumb, I could see he was not ready to wake up.  He fell back asleep on his own.  I didn't do anything. 
After 55 mintues, he just oke up.  That is how it happened:
He moved his head, just like realiseing he is waking up.  He let out a sigh, 1 second after, he stretched, and opened his eyes.  Never during this process he was trying to fall back alseep.  Nevre he seemed like he was struggling to fall asleep again, but not able to.  He was waking up.  Looked at the ceiling, stretched again, and make his usual call, "mommy, I'm awake now".  No tears, no fuss no stirring, no grunts. I tried to shh him ( I had  ducked! (and was spying him under the bed padding hehehe) so he never saw me).  But forget it, it was like trying to make somebody fall alseep in the morning after a good night, you know, you are just ready to wake.

So right now I think I just have a short napper on my hands.  I guess I'll never be able to stretch his naps, unless he wants to.  I guess I'll just read his cues, and forget about a schedule.  It work for him for a while, but obviously, it isn,t the case anymore.  If somebody can help, please do so, otherwise, I'll just go with the flow.

[Diegos Mama]

Does he always use the pacifier when sleeping?

Have you read the stickies on 45 minute napping?  Tracy has said before that sometimes babies are just short nappers, though it does seem odd to me that he did used to nap longer.

VERY interesting also, that he sleeps so well at night.

Personally, I'd shorten his awake time after a short nap. 

What would happen if you held him in one spot when he's falling asleep?  Does he roll all over the place?  I've done this with the toddler when he's had periods of sleep problems.  I'll firmly (but lovingly of course) hold him still in one position.  For us, it's on his side up against the bedrails.  He fights me hard at first, then sorta resigns to it and puts his thumb in and nods off.  I *very* gradually lift my hands, wait a moment to make sure he's asleep and then leave.  I wean him off this as he settles more and more quickly with my holding him down in the way that I shorten the time I hold him.  He gets used to it and settles quickly and I leave more quickly.  This gradual weaning is over the course of two weeks.

[Cosmogirl]

Paci- no, I give him when we are rocking and signing lullyby, but once he gets in his bed, he spits it out.  DS usually never falls asleep right away.  He needs to go through different stages before falling asleep. And I guess he needs to go through them on his own. Lately, he has been falling asleep on me while rocking...because he is exhausted.  But normally, he doesn,t do that.  As a matter of fact, i tried to change his schedule when he started taking like 45 minutes or more to fall asleep.  So right now, either he starts to fall asleep on me, and when he hits his bed, he is out, or he never falls asleep like he did this morning. So it is a hit or miss everytime.  Make my day like a Veags vacation each day...

Short nappers: that is what I'm starting to beleive.  But yes, he was A GREAT napper before, that is why I'm seeking help, because I just don't get why this has changed.  This is beyond me!
Yeah, I did read it, but nothing sticked out for me.  I did try this mornig to BF him before his nap, and he ended up not sleeping at all, so I'm really not sure that BF has a role to play in this...

Night sleeping, no problem.  He did wake up last night after one hour of being in bed, but he fell asleep on his own after what 5-10 mintues?  I didn,t do.  I virtually never have to go at night.  And I ALWAYS bf him before bedtime.  He ALWAYS falls back on his own, even when he is totally awaked for like 15minutes (which he did this morning at like 3).  he chatted on his own, and fell bck asleep until 6:45.

That is what I did.  He was a little grumpy, so he is now back in bed.  He was really relaxed in my arms, but kinda woke up once he touched the matress, and now, of course, he is in his bed not sleeping...

I usually am not there when he falls asleep.  I'm too much of a distraction for him.  He is so used to sleeping in his bed on his own, that I'm not even able to make him sleep elsewhere.  I could try this, but I doubt a little, because I think he will want to play...I'll give it a try right now...

[Diegos Mama]

You know what, I believe I recall you mentioning these changes came after starting solids.  If it were me, I'd cut them all out just to make sure it's not an issue related to a food. 

I'm thinking you may just have to roll with this for a while.  I bet you've read all the info on short naps.  Maybe start a new thread on short nappers and see if folks with experience with this can offer any more suggestions.  I've heard of these short naps appearing and disappearing both completely on their own.

[Cosmogirl]

I've heard of these short naps appearing and disappearing both completely on their own.

I sure hope so
Thanks for your help!!! I really appreciate it!

[Cosmogirl]

One last question. 
I've been really tuned in on his naps today. (ain,t I always???) and I saw something. 
Just now, it was time for a nap.  I did the usual routine, but today, I didn't bf.  He was in my arms, I was rocking him, and he started to fall asleep.  His eyes were closing, next step was dreamland. I put him in  his bed, and he woke up.  Now chatting away in his bed.  I can't think that he doesn't like his bed, because he obviously don't mind being there, but could he not see it as a place to nap??? Why he is waking up the minute he touches his matress??

[corrina01]

Just one thing do you always rock him before he goes to sleep?