Author Topic: trouble starting easy with 15 week old  (Read 2109 times)

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Offline abartley26

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trouble starting easy with 15 week old
« on: January 18, 2006, 01:10:08 am »
I've been bf on demand for 15 weeks now. My son Eli and I are having a tough time transitioning to an easy schedule. As a result of the demand feeding I've started many bad habits: Eli usually feeds on one side at each feeding but with only 1 to 2 hours between. He typically doesn't nap (he usually falls asleep at the breast and then won't let me put him down). If he does nap it's only for 30 to 45 minutes. His night time sleep is completely erratic. Sometimes his long stretch of sleep will be 5 or 6 hours, very occasionally it is 8 hours, but sometimes it's less than 5 hours. I'm reading the BW book and everything makes sense-I'm overfeeding him due to the demand feeding (and that he's probably not really hungry each time) & completely off track on the schedule thing. The past two mornings I've started the day off with intention to follow the easy schedule. However, I don't make it past the first feeding. For example, this morning Eli woke at 6:30, we started with the E, but he only ate for 5 minutes. Which meant he was hungry again an hour later. After his 5 minute feed he was yawning and I wasn't sure what to do-since you're not supposed to put him to sleep after eating (he wouldn't have gone back to sleep anyway) so we did some activities. But like I said, we didn't make it to the 3 hour mark. Plus, I find it so difficult not to put him down to sleep after eating (if he fell asleep) since he hardly ever naps (what if this the only chance for a nap today!). I really need your help. I've read all the books out there and each time I think maybe it will work this time (maybe I'll do what it says). This time I really mean it, but I can't seem to do it on my own. Thanks!

Amanda

Offline Noelle

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Re: trouble starting easy with 15 week old
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2006, 02:35:24 am »
Hello and welcome!!  :D   

The first thing I want to mention is that when starting at 4 months, it will definitely take a few weeks for everything to settle into place and consistency is very important as well  :D

Also, do you have Tracy's 3rd book?  It is pretty extensive in how-to and also has a section on starting EASY at 4 months.  HIGHLY recommend it.   :D

One reason he is probably sleeping only 30-45 minutes is that he hasn't learned how to put himself to sleep yet.  So when he wakes at the normal sleep cycle, he can't go back to sleep. I recommend choosing a stategy to help him sleep independently.  At his age you could use pickup/put down (pu/pd) or still patt/sshh.   Do you know if he is angel/textbook/spirited/grumpy?

What time does he normally eat in the AM?  If he is having nightwakings at 3 or 4, that's probably why he isn't as hungry at 6:30.  I know you are just starting EASY but if you could post what a day somewhat looks like, that would be helpful too  :D

EASY is a guideline that helps you read your little one's cues, prevent overfeeding and promotes independent sleep.  You will find that starting out you probably won't have EASY right away. You will probably have more of a EAESY or AESYEA. 

To begin, I would bf until he is sleepy.  I would then just change his diaper for the activity before sleep so it isn't something real stimulating.  Then continue with pu/pd or pat/ssh.  I think once you start promoting independent sleep you will see that he will be able to increase his nap times, as well as the time in between feedings.

Please post what a typical days look like right now and we'll have more feedback.  Also check out the pu/pd forum if you need more help on how to get started.

Keep in touch - that's what we're here for!!  :D
**Noelle**  Formerly JohnandZoesMom



Offline abartley26

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Re: trouble starting easy with 15 week old
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2006, 04:18:42 am »
Thanks Noelle for your reply and suggestions! We don't really have a typical day but I'll tell you what we did today (although, I have to admit I didn't write it down.) First though, I don't have Tracy's 3rd book. What is the title? And Eli is a spirited baby (my husband was right on when he took the test-my view must have been a little jaded because I came up with textbook, but the description was no where near).

Today:

Eli slept 6 hours from 8:45-2:45, ate until 3:15 am, and slept until 6:30 am. He woke me with the sounds of his kicking and squirming and farting (I thought it was a poopy diaper). I picked him up to change him. He was wide awake and cooing and smiling on the changing table. (Some mornings he wakes me with fussing and crying though). I then fed him and he ate only 5 minutes or so. Then he sat on my lap and yawned several times and observed the things going on. We played and read a book. He sat in bouncy seat while I had breakfast, then he ate at around 7:45am. This feeding was more typical in length, around 20 minutes, I think. He feel asleep while feeding. I put him in his crib and he actually stayed asleep (he usually wakes up when I lay him down). He slept 30 minutes, which was long enough for me to shower. We did some more playing and activites and he ate again at 10 am. Eli stayed awake after and we went to our Baby Sign Language class. The class was from 11 to 11:45, and he did well until around 11:30 or 11:40 then he started to get fussy. He was content to rest his head on my shoulder. Fussed when I put him in the carseat, but was asleep before we walked out the door. He stayed asleep for about 30 minutes. Awake time was next, while he watched my husband and I eat lunch. At 1pm he was quite grumpy/hungry and ate. Fell asleep on the way home for a total of 20 minutes. (Now my brain isn't quite remembering all the details!) I fed him again at 2:20 and he stayed awake for activities. At around 4:30 or 5 (maybe it was closer to 4) ate again and more activities I think. At 6 or 6:30ish ate and fell asleep. Stayed asleep in swing for about 45 minutes. Changed into pajamas then sat in swing watching me eat dinner, then showed signs of sleepiness. I put him in his crib and he fell asleep without any sounds or me in the room (this was an absolute rarety that I'm hoping will become a habit).

Yesterday, a few new things happened in regards to napping and sleep. He took 2 naps in his crib, 30 or 40 minutes each (better than last week with some days no naps). The first nap I put him down at signs of sleepiness and he fussed for a few minutes, let out one cry, and fell asleep. Second nap he fussed and cried a little longer, but just as I walked in to pick him up he stopped and within seconds fell asleep. These two occurances never happen! Then when it was time to go to bed (he typically stays up until he falls asleep feeding), Eli showed signs of sleepiness at 8pm & had already eaten but was still awake. I laid him in his crib and fussed then cried. I tried the pu/pd method, and the pat/shhs
and they seemed to be working a little. But what worked was: I tried giving him a pacifier (he's refused a pacifier from the start) and he seemed to like being able to suck on it (however, he can't figure it out-he talks to it, chews on it, and pushes it out with his tongue), and when it would fall out & I'd pick it up he'd open his mouth for it. Since he couldn't keep it in his mouth he got frustrated. I gave him a small blankie and he ended up sucking on that until he fell asleep. I however don't like that because he could choke on it (I watched him the whole time to make sure he didn't & then removed it after he fell asleep).

I'm so relieved to have you here! I know with your help (and others!) that I can do this for my son and myself. Thanks so much!

Sincerely,
Amanda

Offline abartley26

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bump
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2006, 21:42:16 pm »
I'm bumping my post. Please Help!

Offline Noelle

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trouble starting easy with 15 week old
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2006, 23:22:40 pm »
Hey Amanda...I saw your post, I will have more time to respond later tonight..haven't forgot about you  :wink:  :D
**Noelle**  Formerly JohnandZoesMom



Offline Noelle

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trouble starting easy with 15 week old
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2006, 03:10:14 am »
Hi again  :)

Here is her 3rd book, again I highly recommend it.  Wish it was out with my first  :wink:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743488938/sr=1-2/qid=1137637773/ref=sr_1_2/002-5731870-7304860?%5Fencoding=UTF8

What time is his bedtime?  Eventually they should be able to sleep a 11-12 hour stretch.  Since you are bf, it may take as long as 6 months.  The reason I ask is that if his bedtime is closer to 8 or 9, when he is waking up at 6:30..it may still be a night waking.  Otherwise too, if his natural clock is telling him to wake at 6:30, you may try an earlier bedtime (not sure if that's possible) For example, both of my kiddos went to bed at 7 and woke between 6 and 7AM.

It sounds like he has put himself to sleep without the boob...that's great!! This hopefully means that when teaching independent sleep, it hopefully won't take as long since he's already been able to do it.  Having a lovey is wonderful!!  It does sound like he might not fully be taking to the paci but likes his blanket.  Now you'll have to go with what you are comfortable with...Zoe has a little 12 x 12 blanket that she has slept with since around 2 months.  I always tucked it under her arm in hopes that it would become her lovey.  She now alternates sucking her thumb and the blanket.  I don't think that he would choke on it, but I never say never.  :) 

Ok then....I still think the first thing we need to conquer is the independent sleep.  Any time that he falls asleep on the breast, I would change his diaper or at least rouse him enough so that you are putting him down awake.  Then do pu/pd  or pat/ssh  or the paci dance as I like to call it..whatever comforts him so that he falls asleep "on his own".  Also, if not trying an earlier bedtime, when he wakes at 6:30 I would treat it as a night waking, feed him, change his diaper and try putting him down right away to see what happens...you should be able to tell within 2-3 days if it's his actual wake-up time or a "night" waking. 

With taking such short naps too...that can result in being overtired and thus their A time would be much shorter.  If he only takes a 30 minute nap, when he shows signs of being fussy again, you may want to try putting him down for a nap without feeding (though if before he can do it idependently on a regular basis, this might not work because he expects the breast).  A lot of times when tweaking EASY you may have two naps (which may stretch a feed out to 3 or 4 hours in your case, and this is OK) before a feed.

Hope this wasn't too confusing...are you on board for the sleep training?  :D
**Noelle**  Formerly JohnandZoesMom



Offline abartley26

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trouble starting easy with 15 week old
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2006, 04:53:26 am »
Hi Noelle,

Thank you so much! It has been a frustrating day. And I did pick up the 3rd book today. I didn't have time to open it though!

We don't have a set bedtime or a bedtime routine. Here's what happened last night and today(I didn't write it down again today though so I'm going to have trouble remembering-I'm going to print out the EASY chart tonight for tomorrow):

My excitement over the ease of Eli falling asleep last night didn't lead to great things! He only slept 4 hours, then 3, and 3 more (waking at 6am).

We did well with staying on a 3 hour schedule in the morning. He ate again around 9am, but without him falling asleep (I'm trying to remember why and I can't even remember trying but I'm sure I did try). Then we left to do some errands. He was alert and happy until around 11, and he fell asleep while shopping. He stayed asleep until we got home so total naptime was around 30 mins. He was alert and happy when we got home so I waited until noon to feed him. He didn't want to eat very much though. He instead fussed and wanted to suck on his hands and my hands (I tried the paci again), but he wouldn't keep any of it in his mouth. I tried the breast several times too, but he was impatient with the let down. By 1pm I moved to the bed and he successfully fed laying there (I only feed there when he is frustrated with the let down-so only occasionally). He did not fall asleep though. The rest of the day I tried several times to put him down for a nap with the pu/pd, pat/shh, and paci dance and nothing worked. He would only stop crying when I'd carry him out of the room with the crib in it. But was still fussy unless eating. As a result, 3 hours never passed between feedings the rest of the day.

He fell asleep tonight around 7 while in the car on the way to dinner. I'm about to get him up again and give him a bath before feeding and putting him back down.

I'll try putting him back down in the morning. He sometimes falls asleep again in the morning while at the breast. So you might be right about the extra sleep then.

I'm going to try your suggestion of changing his diaper when he falls asleep on the breast (he just never fell asleep today) and putting him down awake.

Is there a trick to actually identifying his cries and actions to determine whether it's a sleep cry or hunger cry. I know it should be easy if I'm following EASY, but I'm not there yet, so it's not easy!! I've tried referring back to Tracy's chart, but I read the descriptions and I can't quite determine which one it is.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying about the shorter A time and how to change the 30 minute naps (wow! a 30 minute nap today would have been nice!)

Thanks again!
Amanda

Offline Noelle

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Re: trouble starting easy with 15 week old
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2006, 01:36:26 am »
Hello :)  How's it going?

Quote (selected)
I'm not quite sure what you are saying about the shorter A time and how to change the 30 minute naps (wow! a 30 minute nap today would have been nice!)


When babies end up taking only 30-45 minutes naps, they will end up being tired much sooner than if they had a full 1.5-2 hour nap...thus making their A time much shorter.  So if he is having short naps, but you keep him up the normal A time...he is probably overtired and it turns into a cycle of continued short naps.  With short naps then you probably have to tweak EASY to where he is having 2 naps in between feeds...which may in turn push his feeds out to 4 hrs, which is OK. 

In order to sleep train and get EASY implemented, consistency plays an important part.  I know it's hard because there are always things that need to be done....but I think it would greatly speed up the process if you could stay at home as much as possible 'til it falls more into place.  It's hard, but once it's more in place..it is much easier to go out and about because you'll know when he'll be hungry/tired etc. and plan accordingly.  :)

Unfortunately there's no trick (that I know of) to determining cries.  I could never do it...that's why we thrived on EASY, LOL.  But some moms are great at it!! :)
**Noelle**  Formerly JohnandZoesMom