17 mos old--night waking/early waking/short nap!

[imsmum]

We are running the gamut of sleep issues with our 17 mos. old dd. She was never a great sleeper but finally seemed to get things on track 6 mos ago only to have them fall off the rails again when she started going down to 1 nap on a regular basis which was about 6-8 weeks ago.  Up to that time her schedule was:

6:15 w/u and bf
8:00 breakfast
9:30 or 10 nap for 1/2 hour
10 or 10:30 snack
12:30 lunch
1:30 to 2 nap for 1 1/2 hours
3 or 3:30 snack and bath
5:30 dinner
6:45 winddown
7:15 in crib
7:45 asleep

A few things about dd: She went through a big night waking/early waking phase when I dropped the last night time bf and went down to 2 naps from 3 around 9 months.  she NEVER slept more than 1/2 hour in the am and always seemed to need about 1 hour less sleep than other babies her age.  She would go to sleep on her own.  Not a great self soother though--no thumb, paci, lovey etc despite efforts and she chatters and tosses her head to soothe herself to sleep.  She woudl normally take about 20 minutes to go down but even at this stage if she woke in the night  it would take 2 hours of chattering and tossing her head to resettle herself.

Now a "typical" day looks like this:
5:45 to 6:15 wakeup and bf But can be 4:30 or 7!)
8 breakfast
9:30 or 10 snack (to correspond with prev. naptime)
11:15 lunch
12 nap (give or take 1/2 hour either way depending on w/u ) usually sleeps 1 1/2 to 2 hours, occasionally 3 if very tired
2:30 snack and bath
5:15 dinner
6 winddown
6:30 crib
sleep between 7 and 8 but if very overtired can be 10!

When she first went to one nap she was becoming overtired in the evenings so she would jolt herself awake during phase 3 sleep and it could take literally hours for her to fall asleep eventually fom exhaustion.  the same would happen if she woke in the night--she could be up for up to 4 hours.  So dh and I started going in at bedtime standing next to her with our hand on her for usually 1 hour before she falls asleep but it could be 15 minutes or 3 hours!. 

Same happens if she wakes in the middle of the night (usually once).  Wake up time varies depending on when she wakes at night.  If she's overtired going to bed she usually wakes somewhere between 12 and 2 and will go back after an hour and sleep to 6.  Other nights she'll sleep thru  but will be up for the day at 4:30 or 5.  On those days she will usually nap around 11:30 for 2 to 3 hours.  If she wakes around 4 am she will usually go back to sleep between 5:30 until 7. Naps she can go down on her own usually in less than 15 minutes.  She seems to need to go down to sleep for the night exactly 5 hours after w/u from her nap but if that is too late re: what her morning wakeup she can take ages to settle.  she only seems to get a 2 hour nap if she has had either an early w/u or it she's had both night waking and a late sleep time.
She usually only gets about 11 hours sleep per day. She used to get 12 1/2 which I think she still needs because she becomes very clingy around 4 pm.  Any ideas on how to get those extra hours?  any advice much appreciated!

[jessica and emilys mummy]

Hi
I think after using the soothing hand on her back and not working,you should try the counting method.
When you put them to bed and they're crying lay them down,go out of the room and count to 10,go in lay them doen,go out,count to 10,go in,lay them down,go out,count to 10 etc
You only go in if they're still crying and you can ,make the counting to 10 as long or short as you like eg,12345678910 or 1...............2..............3 etc
If they're laying down,but still crying,then go in after 10 and stroke head once and go out and continue.
I PROMISE you the first night is the worse,but I did pelvic floors whilst counting which took my mind off of the screaming.
Also if they stop crying after the count of 5 or 6 for example,stop counting,then start again when the crying starts.
Don't go in to check if the crying has stopped,chances are they're just dozing and will make it 20 times worse (believe me,I did this a couple of times as did Sue Wink )
Any questions then I'm here.


I've just taking this from a Post called ' I CAN'T GO ON LIKE THIS MUCH LONGER'
It's worth reading as Sue (jack and Ellas mum) had just started it and it's working wonders.
It also worked for me and my Emily so I can vouch for it.I remember seeing it a few years back on one of Tracy's programmes but didn't register as I had the angel child.It was only when the devil child (who is yummy)came along it all changed.
I can't  stress though how hard the first night is,so keep calm and bare with it,it only gets better
PM me if you need,although we're all here for you

[imsmum]

Just a couple of things--Crying really isn't the issue because she just chatters away FOR HOURS even if we go in or not.  The soothing hand on her back does work--if we do nothing it can take 2 to 4 hours for dd to settle, with it it usually takes an hour .  And the thing is she'll just cry a bit when she first wakes then will chatter for 45 minutes then start drifting off, jerk herself awake, she cries a bit then, chatters for another 45 minutes, and the process goes on and on until she eventually falls asleep from exhaustion  after several hours.  I think going in and out won't work then because crying isn't the issue and would probably just stimulate her.   i think what i will try is going in, saying it's "nigh  nigh" and instead of the hand just shhing her when she starts chattering.  She just seems to be one of those kids who can be content to be awake on her own for hours at night but  then becomes overtired as a result so if she wakes up we're done.  Is there any way I can keep her from coming fully awake in the first place?

[imsmum]

Sorry I also wanted to add: Do you see anything in our schedule that can be tweaked ?  If she is not too overtired when she goes down at night she'll usually wake around 3 or 4 in the am--about 8 or 9 hours after she goes down. Do you think it's schedule or habit?  I wish she would wake at   exactly the same time so I could try wake to sleep!

[jessica and emilys mummy]

Hi Sorry
I see what you mean.
Your schedule is really good.You could try to bring dinner to around 4.15ish and then do the bath.
bring the bedtime to around 6.15ish.see if that helps.
I really can't think of antthing to stop the chattering.
will have another look through books.
Sorry will come back to you asap

[imsmum]

Thanks--having some success with super early bedtime --around 6:30 ish!  Now that she's getting better rested though I think I need to tweak things like move her bedtime and naptimes back a bit because she is still not getting those long naps.  What a long exhausting process--for everyone! 
Thanks again for getting back to me!
Caroline