Is this worth it?

[shimmer]

I've just started trying to implement EASY into my baby's life.  After two days, with yesterday being the first one that felt SEMIsuccessful, and after reading these forums, it seems that this program isn't worth the stress.  How is the effort and work of trying SOOOOO hard to put my baby on this routine going to make our lives better?  I seriously want to know.  I read about all these problems people are having with their EASY schedule, and I feel like I'd almost rather just let my baby be.  Besides, I actually enjoy the occasional rocking her to sleep... sometimes after patting and shushing for THREE STRAIGHT HOURS at night, I just want to rock her for both of our comforts.  And it seems that I never have "Y" time because of all this "wake to sleep" crap and pu/pd and shushing.  How is this supposed to be easier?

PLUS - last night she slept LESS then she usually does.  I spent all day putting her down for naps, most of which she handles "okay," and then it was WORSE.  She hardly sleeps at night.  She doesn't go to bed until 1 or 1:30 and then she's ready to begin the day at 8 AM.  Why, after trying to give her multiple naps that day, did she want less sleep last night?  Aren't too many naps going to turn her from sleeping at night. 

I really want to know how EASY is better then winging it, because here I am at DAY 2 of trying to put my 6-week-old on EASY, and it seems so inconvenient.  At least when I was "winging" it, I could take her to Church and she was pleasant.

I really need to know how the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

[mickymuscles]

i'm sorry you've had a rough go of it but for some of us it has made the world of difference in our lives!! :roll:  You may have an easy going baby that can tolerate not having a routine but unfortunately Jackson isn't one of those babies.   Maybe once your lo is a bit older and she notices her surroundings a little bit more she may thrive on a routine.  BW doesn't mean that you can't ever rock your baby to sleep but it is designed to help you find what isn't working for you and your lo.  It also is just a way to 'know' what your baby is trying to tell you.  for example if you have had her up for 1.5 hours and she's starting to get fussy...most likely she is tired, etc.  If you are having to pat for 3 hours at night without her settling at all she may have been hungry.   EASY is just meant to be a routine/ guidline. so that you know what your lo might want.  it isn't written in stone.  She probably slept less last night because she was overtired from all the change in "winging it" over the day.  It's a change she's not use to and you may find that it gets worse at first but in the long run you will be thanking your lucky stars!! Especially when she is 3 years old and can't fall asleep independantly and you have a new lo that isn't as accomodating! :shock:   I hope you have more luck over the next few days.  The first week of trying to get started with EASY is very HARD!!  :lol:

I also read on one of your other posts that you have been doing PU/PD with your lo??  At 6 weeks old she is too young for this technique and it would be too overstimulating.  pat/shh works much better especially if you have her swaddled.  Tracy's latest book BW sloves all your problems----does address alot of these questions that you have-----I'm not sure if that is the book that you have read or not?  At 6 weeks she probably still needs to eat every 2.5-3 hours and should maybe able to do a 5 hour stretch at night (probably only one long stretch right now...it will lengthen with time)

[Noelle]

Hello,
Also sorry that you're having a hard time with it.  To be honest, it doesn't sound like EASY is something you "want" to implement - and this might be because you're having a hard time with it?.  It is difficult and frustrating at first.  If you are frustrated with it before even giving it a chance (EASY takes more than 2 days to implement ) - you will only find yourself hating/resenting it...and finding faults with it without giving it a fair go.  We would love to help you out - but you have to be willing first   (hope that doesn't come across as harsh, just trying to be honest   )

Keep in mind too.....EASY will be all over the place with newborns.  You will see it fall more into place at around 4 months.  As mentioned, EASY is a guideline.  Tracy gives "exact" times to help give us some sort of idea of what to go by.  By no means does it have to be "by the clock".

Reasons why I do EASY:

1.  I know why she is crying (95% of the time) (since she's always fed around the same time, I know that if she starts crying 15-20 minutes later that I don't need to pop a bottle/breast in - she isn't hungry)
2.  I know when she is tired - EASY helps you read the cues better
3.  MOST babies thrive/function better with a routine
4.  Better/longer naps  = better night time sleep.  It is hard to believe, but I've read it over and over and seen it work in both my kiddos... sleep begets sleep
5.  I can easily go places without worrying about overtired meltdowns - since I know what times she gets tired I can plan my errands, etc. around them.
6.  Prevent overfeeding - and since I bottlefed this means a lot less waste.
7.  Independent sleep - once they know how to do this, you don't have to spend the ?? amount of time trying to get them to sleep.  And this also means you can rock to sleep, etc. when you want to without having to worry about doing it ALL the time or it becoming a habit. 

Disadvantage (if you want to call it that   )

1.  It can be hard work and takes dedication


{{hugs}}

[shimmer]

Thanks for your thoughts.  I WANT EASY to work... but Day 1 seemed more successful then Day 2.  The biggest problem is the math.  I don't understand how she's supposed to nap for two hours every time, because she gets tired so early.  Do i just put A time after sleep also?  I can't read her tired cues at all... I think that's my main frustration. She yawns immediately after naps, even though SHE woke up.  So does that mean I have to spend naptime WITH her...?

Should I wait to try and implement EASY when she's older...?

[Noelle]

Hi again

When first starting EASY, it is not uncommon to have good days and bad days. And to be honest, I think it is harder to implement when they are younger because they do change so much   And too, I think personal temperament has a lot to do with it.  I'm sort of a control freak so **I** need some sort of routine as well...thus, I implemented it at birth.  But it was HARD.  Now my SIL..she's a go with the flow person, doesn't do EASY at all and she's fine with it.  Now, she does wish she could just put her baby down to sleep when he was tired and I've seen her pop the bottle in his mouth every time he cries - but it works for her and they're happy

And oh yeah, missed this in your first post....I agree, there is very little Y when first implementing it.  But the advantage is you get much more Y time later on when you have it in place

So ok - let's get started   First off, which of Tracy's books do you have?  If you don't have the 3rd one - HIGHLY recommend it.  It's basically a "how-to" for all of her philosophies.

With the 2 hrs nap - that again is Tracy's guideline.  Not all babies will sleep that long.  At 6 weeks - her A time is probably only 45min-1HR.  That includes feeding and diaper change and any "playing" time leftover.   Since you are just starting EASY - can you let us know what a "typical" day would look like?  That will help too.

Also - you had mentioned wether you should implement EASY when she's older.  I would implement EASY now (as far as the feedings go) - but you can decide if you want to start sleep training now or when she's closer to 4 months.  In my experience, sleep training a newborn is VERY HARD and will take about 2 months.  If you start when she's older it will probably take up to 3 weeks...though you may have to break any "habits" that were created.  What's hard when they are newborns is that you want to be consistent, though in reality we don't know yet what actually "comforts" them.  So it's a lot of guess work, a lot of hit and miss and a lot of time.  You could also give yourself limits if you want to - meaning you could try pat/ssh for up to 45 minutes and if it doesn't work then rock her.  It could turn out that she will always wait for the rocking (which you could "fix" when she's older), or it could turn out that you end up teaching her to sleep on her own. I sometimes ended up trying to rock too because nothing worked...but the rocking didn't work either (enter confused emoticon here).

Now...what I would start with is that anywhere between 5:30 and 7 I am guessing that she's wakes for the day?  Most babies wake pretty early I think.  If she is yawning "right after" she wakes up...I would consider that just part of waking up.  Since she's 6 weeks old...we know that she will be tired as early as 45 minutes (Zoe was ready for a nap after 30 mins actually a lot of times)...so 30 minutes after she wakes up I would watch her behavior closely and see what she does.  Younger babies, the only real sign is yawning (as they get older they might rub their eyes, pull at their ears).  If she yawns at 30 minutes - she is tired.  Tracy recommends putting them down no later than the 3rd yawn - I agree   Now if she only sleeps 45 minutes vs the 2 hrs - you can try extending her naps with pat/ssh or other method that comforts her - or take her out and have some A time.  Is she bf or bottlefed?  If bottlefed, she probably can go 3 hrs at this point.  With short nappers, it isn't uncommon for the EASY to become EASAE or EASES....the main thing you want to avoid is feeding her to sleep.  If she falls asleep with the bottle or breast, do a quick diaper change to wake her up a little bit and then put her down right away.  You may also end up having 2 short naps in between feedings.  All of this is OK - besides avoiding feeding her to sleep - you're other goal is to get her eating time on a routine to avoid the overfeeding.  If it turns out that she is sleeping at the 3 hr mark when she should be eating, it's ok to go to 4 hrs....even 5 if having problems with naps, but I would definitely wake her at the 5 hr mark.  (but honestly, with a newborn, I wouldn't go past 4 to avoid mixing days and nights and you want to get the majority of calories in during the day ).

I hope this helps some - let us know of any questions you may have    She's young yet so it might be hard to tell...do you know the temperament of your little girl?  Angel, textbook, etc.? 

[shimmer]

Thank you so much... as a first time Mom, it is definitely helpful to have more details.  I do not have the 3rd book... I will look into getting it.

Our day goes as follows:

Wakes at 8-ish.

Depending on her last feed, I may not feed her until 8:30 or 9

Then she gets tired very quickly so i put her down - this is where she takes a long nap... like 2 hours.  But, I've been waking her from that at the 3 hr. mark.  Should I not?

I feed her again, and usually she's fairly pleasant for about 1/2 an hour, but then gets fussy VERY quickly.  I lay her down and she goes down well, but, again, she wakes up after only 2o or 30 min. and then seems pretty cranky again.  I try A time, but it seems to irritate her.  And trying to put her down again takes quite a bit of effort.  But, maybe I will just start rocking her, as that helped before.

Basically, my day continues this way, and then I TRY to bathe her after 8 so that i can get her to go at 9 or 9:30... last night, she woke up after only 15 min. and was inconsolable.  I fed her at 11, and then didn't get her down until 1 am.  She has been screaming since 10 PM since she was two weeks, and the earliest we can ever get her down is 1.  It doesn't seem like colic, it seems like temperment.  I dunno. 

My child is DEFINITELY spirited, with a little bit of touchy & grumpy.  So, should I just get off of EASY and accept that I need to put her in her car seat or hold her when she's tired...?

[Paulsmama]

Hi there, I just wanted to let you know that we did not start EASY until my DS was 2 mos and did not start sleep training with pat/sh until closer to 3 mos.  (I wish we had started EAS earlier but I did not read Tracy's book before then!)  So I don't know about EAS before 2 mos but I heard that 6-8 weeks is the peak time for late evening fussiness because babies' nervous systems are developing?  Anyway, I wanted to let you know that it did not seem to cause a problem for us to wait on the sleep training.  Before 3 mos, I would walk DS to sleep (he hated rocking), then I realized I had to do something else because he was getting heavy.  It only took him a few weeks to "get it" and I think it would have been faster if I had been more consistent with pat/sh, but when I missed his sleep window I'd still walk him down.
Good luck!

[Noelle]

Wakes at 8-ish.

Depending on her last feed, I may not feed her until 8:30 or 9

Then she gets tired very quickly so i put her down - this is where she takes a long nap... like 2 hours.  But, I've been waking her from that at the 3 hr. mark.  Should I not?

I feed her again, and usually she's fairly pleasant for about 1/2 an hour, but then gets fussy VERY quickly.  I lay her down and she goes down well, but, again, she wakes up after only 2o or 30 min. and then seems pretty cranky again.  I try A time, but it seems to irritate her.  And trying to put her down again takes quite a bit of effort.  But, maybe I will just start rocking her, as that helped before.

That sounds right that she is tired then as it would be around the 45 minute mark give or take.  I would let her go for the nap...and if she doesn't wake by the 4 hr mark, then wake her.  Everybaby is different too...she might be  a great morning napper and a so-so afternoon napper.  John was a great napper all around, but Zoe always took 45 min AM naps and 3hr naps in the afternoon

When she gets fussy after a half hour, I would start your wind-down routine.  Some babies need more than others.  What you could do, and this helps with sleep training too is to rock her until almost asleep and then lay her down.  Then eventually you should be able to lay her down more and more awake.

I'm going to have DebinOZ (another EASY moderator) take a look at this thread too.  Her dd is spirited as well and she may have some great tips for you - especially for around the night time.  It sounds like you have a great start - with the normal bumps!! 

[Deb_in_oz]

Hi - Noelle gave me a heads up that you have a spirited lo and are trying to get started at 4 weeks old...

i will tell you this - with a spirited one you are definitely better off on a routine like EASY in the long run if you want to have an easier time figuring out what she needs and also getting her to rest. i assume when you mention at least she would be pleasant at church etc when you were winging it - i can picture it easily. Olivia woudl happily stay awake for ages and be smiling, and pleasant - as long as she was awake. But the thing with babies is this - they need daytime sleep to recharge their bodies and develop their bodies and brain. and altough a spirited baby can seem pleasant and happy for a long time, when you do finally try to put them down they are so overtired that the battle is to get them to get enough restful daytime sleep and to settle without 3 hrs of effort at bedtime

there is a thread at the top of this forum that is about spirited babies and you can read some of the mom's experiences there.
some key tips for making a routine work for spirited lo = swaddle (they seem to fight it the hardest of any type, but that is because they need it more than any other - their limbs moving around can stimulate them and keep them awake even when they want to sleep); darken bedroom as much as possible / blackout curtains/blinds if possible; white noise / sound machines to block out audio stimulation and help soothe; keep "windown" short - best to just change nappy, swaddle, maybe sway to a lullaby and then put to bed with a special "cue phrase" like night night, sleepytime (whatever works for you but say it each time you put her down and that will act as a clear cue to her that it is now time to sleep); kep her A time short - at 4 weeks i would guess 30-45 min maxmum (if she seems fine with 45 min or more but then naps for only 20-30 min that would be an indication that she was likely overtired when she went down and i woudl cut back her A time by 5 mnin at a time until you find what is her best amount of time)

EASY is flexible so do not look at it like she has to be "perfect" or that you have to get it "right" - take what ytou can from EASY/BW and adapt it to your life. if you want to be able to wing it more than this requires you can build in 1 nap a day in her stoller/car seat and focus on other naps at home in her bed, focus on keeping the order of things as Eat Activity Sleep and you will be building the foundation for a routine when she is a little older, focus on encouraging her to take a good feed each time so she is not snacking and eating all day, spend her A time watching her closely and as you interact you will learn her "cues" and this will also help you if you want to wait a while before going "hard core" with sleep training etc - you study her body for signs of what she is telling you  (my spirited lo never yawned until she was overtired, but finally at 7 weeks i noticed that her tired sign was jerky limbs - even while smiling happily and not seeming tired at all. when i started putting her down at 45 min suddenly she started napping better so for hr it became a clock watching situation because she had no sleep cues that were clear like yawning)


i hope that gives you some ideas of how to make BW work for you especially in these early days. You mayfind that PU/PD, besides being too much for a 4 week old, is too much for her even when she is older - it can be too stimulating and like a game for a spirited baby. at 11 mo old i still revert to shh/pat with olivia when she is having trouble settling and can get her to relax and go to sleep using this (but she puts herself to sleep without help when she is not having teething or milestone issues and that is because i taught her to sleep independently)

although at 4 weeks rocking lo to sleep can be sweet and feel like exactly what you were meant to do, i just want to point out as Tracy soes in her books "start as you mean to go" Pick up a large sack of rice and see if you enjoy rocking it for 30 min as it can be difficult dealing with a 7 mo old who still needs to be rocked and weighs quite a bit more than a 1 mo old. just food for thought...

the reaction you are getting from her in the evening is chronic overtiredness - we had it from Olivia for upwards of 2 1/2 -3 mo until she was getting enough daytime sleep and then we could actually get her to go down straight away at 7:30 and not hear a peep out of her until next feed. prior to tat we woudl struggle from 7-10pm most nights and occassionally later - constantly wondering if she was still hungry, had gas, etc The key was sleep (it is tru "sleep begets sleep") an overtired baby has trouble settling, sleeps poorly and will often still get up early so they do not make up the lost sleep and the cycle continues. this is where i woudl advocate the rocking if necessary - if you are struggling with her to break an overtired cycle the aim is to get her to sleep! (i used to pray she woudl fall asleep during feeds sometimes when she had been awake 5 hours - at least i knew we could get some reast and tomorrow was another chance to get on track) we then stuck with clock watching and shh/pat and even with a toddler running around the house i still took every opportunity to be in there with Liv shhing her and breaking my back over her cot. and while EASY has been 1000 times harder this timedue to her temperment - i cannot even imagine what she woudl be like without it (i shudder at the thought as spirited ones are a challenge and at least BW provides you with tools to get a handle on things)

[Noelle]

Thanks Deb - you always do such a great job at explaining things   Karma points for you..and Shimmer too

Shimmer....I thought of another HUGE advantage....

When the kiddo is on EASY....it is much easier to get your DH to watch her while you go out and have some Y time.  They don't have to do any "figuring" out, for the most part!!  

[shimmer]

I think that EASY is for me, but only in an extremely adapted and laid back way.  It just makes me almost sick when I'm trying to do it... especially when I feel like it's failing.  I do like thinking that, if she isn't always able to nap in her crib, then maybe I can hold her or take her for a drive... that helps me because I just don't have the temperment to stand over her bead for an hour because she keeps waking up.

Problem:  Last night, she fell asleep at 9 PM in my arms... I left her there (I know, I know, but I didn't want the cry fest from 10-1 that we usually get).  So, I held her as hubby and I watched television for 3 hours... Then, she woke up, so I fed her, but then getting her back down was impossible because she wanted to play!  It took a good 1/2 hour-45min. to get her to sleep, and then last night, was the worst night ever!  At least before, when she screamed until 1 AM, once she fell asleep, she would give me 4 hours.  But last night, I was up at 3, then 5:30, and after the 5:30 nursing, I didn't get her back to sleep(she was wanting to play) until 6:30.  Why, when she had more sleep then ususal yesterday and when she actually wasn't dealing with her chronic overtiredness, did she give me much more of a restless night?

I am at my wit's end.  I mean, people have been raising babies for 6,000 years.  If this program seems to give me an ulcer, but I know no other way of doing things... how do i cope?

I STILL feel as if all that daytime sleep is going to cut into her nightime sleepiness... AND - for how long will she need to go through this "sleeping for basically 20 hours" thing?  It just seems, I dunno - unreal.

I'm not doubting that EASY works for ya'll, but I am really losing my understanding and acceptance of it because I feel more like it ties me down then helps me out.

Help!  I really am distressed.  I seriously think i may be dealing quite highly with depression as well, and that doesn't help.

*shrug*

[Deb_in_oz]

  It just makes me almost sick when I'm trying to do it... especially when I feel like it's failing. 
 

I am at my wit's end.  I mean, people have been raising babies for 6,000 years.  If this program seems to give me an ulcer, but I know no other way of doing things... how do i cope?

 

before i even got to the end of your post and read that you think you are dealing with depression this went up as a red flag for me. i have been battling PND since very early days and know that to this day that "sick" feeling is not a good sign. one of the first things i was forced to do in therapy was to eliminate my expectations (still working on this) - don't think about it as pure success and failure. think of any progress you make as a triumph, focus on the foundations that i mentioned in my earlier post, it is impossible to get your lo on a "pure" / "textbook" EASY overnight - firstly your lo is still just that "little" at this stage you are teaching independent sleep if you can and working on the basics. keep yourself sane in the process and take it in baby steps - ratherthan tackle it all at one. if you want to - simply focus on the E/A/S/Y part of things and independent sleep, then tackle nap lengths or props (like occasional rocking to sleep).

at 5+ WEEKS old she is still highly portable so try to get out of the house each day and let her have one nap in the stroller or car seat... so that you don't feel like a prisoner or slave to EASY.

Problem:  Last night, she fell asleep at 9 PM in my arms... I left her there (I know, I know, but I didn't want the cry fest from 10-1 that we usually get).  So, I held her as hubby and I watched television for 3 hours... Then, she woke up, so I fed her, but then getting her back down was impossible because she wanted to play!  It took a good 1/2 hour-45min. to get her to sleep, and then last night, was the worst night ever!  At least before, when she screamed until 1 AM, once she fell asleep, she would give me 4 hours.  But last night, I was up at 3, then 5:30, and after the 5:30 nursing, I didn't get her back to sleep(she was wanting to play) until 6:30.  Why, when she had more sleep then usual yesterday and when she actually wasn't dealing with her chronic overtiredness, did she give me much more of a restless night?
 

getting on EASY is a long term investment. i know that right now it seems like you had it better when she slept for 4hrs from 1am, but really it is not good for her to be up screaming until 1am and that is what we are trying to fix.  part of getting the evenings on track is getting her daytime sorted so that she has some A time and some nap time every cycle, then it is a good idea to start setting up some rituals (like a bath before bedtime, a good night phrase, etc) and making sure that her feed is done in her room with dim lighting and no stimulation = setthe tone that it is bedtime, then put her down for sleep in her bed.  another tactic is to do cluster feeds to get some extra food in her to help space out those evening/night feeds and/or a dream feed. all of thi is covered in the latest BW book in detail.


if she fell asleep in your arms at 9pm was that because you tried to settle her earlier and she would not go down??? i am not clear on what lead to that scenario, but if she was not settling i would think it was either hunger or overtiredness - how long was she awake in her last A time before "bedtime" ?


 

I STILL feel as if all that daytime sleep is going to cut into her nightime sleepiness... AND - for how long will she need to go through this "sleeping for basically 20 hours" thing?  It just seems, I dunno - unreal.
 

at 5 weeks old most babies do sleep much of the day - it is normal in the first 1-2 months for A time to be bet 45 min - 1hr (or less)(some babies at 2 mo are up to 1hr+ but not all and spirited babies have the shortest A times since they get overtired and overstimulated so easily)

also, it really is a proven fact that (daytime) sleep begets (nighttime) sleep. it seems counterintuitive but babies are wired this way. when they are rested they sleep evenmore and when they are overtired (whether from a whole day of overtiredness/overstimulation or just the latter part of the day) it not only can cause a horrible early evening period, but can cause extra nightwakings and an early start. babies don't really get the idea of a "lie-in" - if they have a rough night they will wake earlier than usual rather than later.