Losing control over daytime schedule! HELP!!

[mom2william]

I feel like I post so much on this board about my DS and his naps but they never seem to get better!  I need some advice ASAP!  He is horribly overtired during the day.  My issues are coming from the fact that he is waking too early and wants to take a nap at like 7:30am.  (I know I need to ask for help re: the early awakening on another message board).  My question is, until I solve the early waking problem, do I let him nap when he needs to to keep him from becoming so overtired??  DH said if he's acting tired to just go ahead and put him down for a nap.  The problem I fear running into is that if I do that, he'll end up taking like 3 naps a day again b/c his naps start so early in the day.  Our schedule is something like this now:

5-5:45am Wake
6-6:30am BF (occasionally during this time he MIGHT fall back asleep but not a lot)
7:30 or 8:00am Solids (He is usually rubbing his eyes majorly during this and becoming overtired)
9:00am Nap #1
10:00-10:45am Wake (He's sleeping past 45 min. but is waking at 30-45min. mark and crying very briefly and then falls back asleep but usually wakes up crying.  He's a lot of times still rubbing his eyes and is tired before 3 hours are up.  He yawns, etc.)
12:00 or 12:30pm Solids and BF
1:30ish Nap #2 (length varies.  Can be 1 hour + usually.  He's usually very tired and wakes up crying 95% of the time.  Will rub his eyes an hour after getting up from this nap sometimes)
2:30-3:30pm Wake
5-5:30pm Solids (sometimes is so overtired doesn't even want to eat)
Btwn 6-7pm BF and bedtime (depends on how bad naps were)

So...what should I do about his schedule at this point?  It's impossible to look at his awake times because he's always overtired from the time he wakes up, it seems!  Do I try to put him down if he wants to go back to sleep at 7:30am?  I am trying to keep him up 'til at least 9:00am to have a decent schedule but it seems he's just not having restorative sleep.  I have tried 8:30/8:45 but he sometimes won't settle and go to sleep until almost 9:00am anyway!!  I give up!  I truly need help.  He's just exhausted and trying to keep him up is making it worse, I think.  I don't even know where to start.  I feel like I repeat myself with my posts but I'm a first time mommy and feel so overwhelmed and blind.  I'm also a little paranoid about him being overtired because we have struggled soooo much with his napping!

Any advice would be very much appreciated!

Suzanne

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William born 3/23/05

[Meg's Mom]

Hi Suzanne, sorry you are having such trouble.  First, take a deep breath!  Let it out slowly....ok?  :-)

I am not sure that putting him down at 7.30am is going to do any good, since you say he won't go to sleep anyway?  Did he used to nap at this time?  My LO still acts tired at her old am nap time and it has been 3mos since we dropped that nap.  But if i try putting her down, she would be very unhappy w/ me.  So i try to do something restful at that time - eg: walk in the stroller, sit quite and read, go run an errands so she is in her car seat OR give a snack (also restful and re-charge the batteries).

  He is horribly overtired during the day

Can you tell me what is happening that makes you think this?  My LO used to always cry when she work up from her naps, she doesn't any more and i have no idea why or what changed.  So that isn't a for sure sign, IMO.  What else? 

Have I sent you the PM on the earlywaking?

For your schedule?  Here is what i would do:
1) start putting him to bed earlier, 20min every few days until the am waking comes forward.
2) i would not get him up before 6am, even if he is awake (this will be explained in the pm I'll send or re-send) and i am not recommending cio...but you all know that already.
3) from 6am or when ever you start your day, hopefully later soon - use the clock for naps.  Nap 1 approx 2.5-3hrs from 6am or waking.  Nap 2 approx 3.0-3.5hrs after waking from nap 1.

so:
6am get out of bed
9am nap 1
1.30ish nap 2
6.30 bed

If it makes you feel better we too had early waking and nap problems at 9mos - the above is what i did.  I also think you may want to try adding in some snacks during the day, the yawning could be not enough fuel/food.  Have you started ffood yet? 

Does that help?

[mom2william]

Hey Michelle,

So glad you replied!  Sorry it took me a while to respond.  I am trying to take a deep breath...have been trying to do that for a few months now!  Ha! Ha! 

Well, to answer a few of your questions, back in December you were helping me and you did already send me the PM regarding early waking.  I really do think he is doing that b/c his naps aren't great because I've read that and I think it's even in the PM you sent re: early waking.  It (early waking) is usually caused by too late a bedtime or insufficient naps, I believe.  I am trying to move his bedtime earlier, although he's always gone to bed very early so not sure how much earlier I can make it!  Aarismom (Sonya) suggested trying 6:00pm/6:30pm since he already gets up early so I'm going to try that.  Is it OK if they get 12 hours of night sleep or do you want to keep it at 11 hours so the day sleep is OK? 

I have always read that when a LO wakes up crying, the nap was not enough.  He's ALWAYS done this for naps.  He does sometimes wake from his AM nap talking.  But if you're saying your DD did it and seemed well rested, then maybe it's OK.  Sometimes, though, I KNOW it's not enough because he had a hard time going down for the nap and I just know he's still tired.  I guess the reason I feel he is overtired during the day is that most days it seems he is constantly rubbing his eyes during his awake times, like sometimes only an hour after getting up from a nap.  Could be I'm just paranoid, too!
I guess I'm basing the fact that I feel he's overtired during the day on him waking up crying, showing tired signs not too long after getting up from a nap and his early waking.  Also, most days, especially in the afternoon, he may sleep for up to an hour, then cry and go back to sleep for a bit and still wake up crying.  Do LO's do this?  Is that typical as they move in and out of sleep cycles?  I guess I thought at this age he should sleep solidly and not cry in the middle of a nap.

As for him acting tired around 7:30am, this was never a set naptime although I'm sure when he was much younger he would have been asleep at this time.  Today I put him down at 8:30am and he slept an hour and a half so that was good!  He was getting fussier and fussier.  I swear I don't know when this dude gets up, it may be something like 4:30am and he's just quiet!!! 

Thanks for the bit about him yawning during awake time due to maybe needing a snack or something.  He's eating 3 meals a day and breastfeeding but still may need a little something.  I forget they have tiny tummies!

I would like to ask you, do you think I should put him down if he'll sleep at 6:30 or 7:30am when he's acting tired just to get him better rested to see if it'll help the early waking?  Then move to a more decent schedule?  Or would putting him down for a nap this early perpetuate the early waking?

Thanks for ALL your help!!!!  This message board is a lifesaver!  I think for me I have a lot of expectations of my LO and his naps and read other people saying their LO's have theser regular naptimes, etc. and I get so discouraged!  But you and all the other gals on this site have been such a blessing- thank you!

Will wait to hear back from you!
Suzanne

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William born 3/23/05

[Meg's Mom]

Hi Suzanne

Is it OK if they get 12 hours of night sleep or do you want to keep it at 11 hours so the day sleep is OK? 

For now i would say yes, once other problems are sorted... you  can adjust if it is causing a problem.

I guess I thought at this age he should sleep solidly and not cry in the middle of a nap.

  My LO still cries out in the middle of her nap - today twice during her 2.5hr nap.  Like i mentioned she also now plays after naps.  BUT i never took seriously Tracy's suggestions to have them play in their crib...i do now.  Today when she woke, i put in a basket of small toys...she played and i cut my coupons in the rocking chair!!  LOL  But it works, now she doesn't want to come of the crib.

do you think I should put him down if he'll sleep at 6:30 or 7:30am when he's acting tired just to get him better rested to see if it'll help the early waking?  Then move to a more decent schedule?  Or would putting him down for a nap this early perpetuate the early waking?

  As much as i wish i did, i don't really know...hummm.  How about this for a plan...put him down earlier for 1 week, but just for the 1st nap.  if he starts to refuse or take a short nap, then you know it is too early - move it back by 15-20min.  He may be the 1 LO who needs a very, very short A time for his 1st nap.  I would recommend you stick to the 2.5-3.0hr A times for the rest of the day though or i do think you will be perpetuating the 45min naps.

I hope that helps.

You are very, very welcome - this board saved me.   A short story, it was 1 yr ago this week that i joined the board...we have overcome our naps troubles several times over.  My LO is now the best napper and sleeper i could ever dream for - so it will come, i PROMISE!  She told me tonight it was time for bed, i am NOT kidding.  Good luck.

[Paulsmama]

Hi Suzanne, hope things are going better for you on the early wakings front.  DS this morning did something similar -- started talking on and off around 5:50 am but didn't call out for me and I finally went and got him up at 6:50.  I stretched him until a little after 9 for his am nap and we'll see how he does.  Actually if DH wasn't out of town I wouldn't have had the monitor turned up and I probably wouldn't have known DS was awake until 6:30 when I'd usually get out of bed.  I hope this is not the start of a trend . . .

[mom2william]

Thanks for your tips, Michelle.  I am trying (but not always suceeding) to put him down earlier in the evening.  He is still sometimes waking too early but the other AM, I think he slept in a bit so MAYBE it'll get better.  Please tell me it will! 

He is teething, too, for the first time so that may be the cause of some of our problems.  Today was a BAD day for napping as he woke early in the morning and took a long time to (finally) go to sleep for his AM and PM nap.  But...I will persevere! 

Thanks soooooooooooo much again!

Suzanne
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William born 3/23/05

[mom2william]

Cynthia,

Sorry to hear your DS may be doing the early waking, too!  It is NOT fun.  Hope it was just a one day fluke!   

Suzanne
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William born 3/23/05