Is it too late to start E.A.S.Y help!

[allione]

Hello,

My son is just over six months and is very spirited to say the least. He has a very varied routine wakes about 7.30am has milk, activity till about 9.30-10am naps for 1-2hrs wakes has milk about 12.30-1 wont take solids?? eats again anytime after about 3 hours? is quite irritable a lot of the time has slight separation anxiety and is a nightmare to get off to sleep at night normally anytime from 8.30-10.00pm,

Please help I am finding it really hard..

Alison

[Deb_in_oz]

hi there

it is never "too late" but it can be a greater challenge to implement as they get older. do  you have any of the BW books? what have you read?

the first BW book gives you a lot of the philosophy and techniques of EASY and babywhispering. the 2nd is the toddler bookand the latest is the BW solves... and goes into detail of how to implement things and problem solving. at the minimum i think you shoudl read the latest book as it talks about implemnting EASY for the older baby and also talks about all the problems you might encounter/undoing some of the things that you might be doing now.

you gave a partial view of your day - can you type out exactly how today went (a timetable) and let me know if that is reasonably "typical" for you? i want to get a sense of how long he is awake for before you put him down for a nap and how long it takes for him to get to sleep, when he ate and how much... any night feeds or nightwakings that he resettled for without food, etc

what props, if any, do you use - swaddle, white noise, pacifier/dummy, feed to sleep, rocking etc

is quite irritable a lot of the time has slight separation anxiety and is a nightmare to get off to sleep at night normally anytime from 8.30-10.00pm,

i have been dealing with sep anxity issues with my spirited one since 7 mo and it reached a peak a couple of weeks ago - not fun so i know what you are going through with that - have not heard too much to help myself with it so don't have any real advice except that routine helps with this in the sense that it provides security and consistency while they are dealing with fears...

the irritability and rough evenings would likely be due to a need for more nap time so he is not overtired - we should be aiming for a bedtime of 7-7:30 with 8-8:30 really being the latest i would recommend for a 6 mo old.

[allione]

Hello,

Thanks for your reply great to know someone is there and knows what i am going through. Jude (DS) went to bed last night at 9.20pm about the same time for the last four nights, he needed a bottle to get him off again?. I got him up at 7.30am today to give him his bottle at 8.am he had about an ounce of his bottle and would only have two spoons of solids. The trouble is I cannot get on a proper feeding plan because he starts his bottle at 7.30/8am and will finish it off before his nap at about 10/10.30am so if I was to wait four hours before the next feed realistically it would only be two hours if I fed him again at 12.00. He is teething do you think this is part of it? Any idea what to do.

He has slept through the night for the last four nights before that he was waking at 1.30am for a feed and would finish the bottle.

I will make a note of everything today and send it to you tonight. I dont think I will ever be able to stop the bottle to get him off to sleep he wont go without it, but I have stopped standing and rocking him off. The only trouble with that is most of my family use the rocking/standing method to get him off, they also all dont believe in strict routine so I am up against a bit of a brick wall with them.

Sorry to have gone on a bit but I so want to get this right as he is my first and if I had anymore would know what to do. Also I dont want to end up like my sister in law, she still has her two boys sleep in her and her husbands bed at night they are 5 and 3 years old they have no set bedtime usually about 10.30pm so she has no real time without them to be with her husband.

I will send you todays details later,

Thanks so much,

Alison

[Deb_in_oz]

hi - i got your PM (sorry i have been unable to give you much guidance yet) and thought i would post your day here so everything is in one place and other mods can help too. I will be on holiday with my family for the next 5 days so will let the other mods know you will need some support and guidance.

Hello,

Today I listed everything regarding my sons eating sleeping etc its a bit long but contains everything you need to know hopefully you can let me know what I need to change etc. I just wanted to add before I list the timetable that today I tried to follow some sort of plan it isn't too far from what he usually does apart from his bedtime and he went four hours between feeds which is usually three.

7.30am - DS woke up played in cot contently till I went in at 8.am

8.am - DS had 2 ounces of His formula?? and 2 spoons of apple, banana & Rice (Improvement hasnt been eating solids is teething, but not drinking all his milk is a problem as it messes up his eat times).

8.30am - Activity Played in entertainer/playpen.

9.30am - Started rocking DS in quiet room as he was showing signs of tiredness, took 30mins & 5 ounces of bottle to get him off. (thats usual though).

10.00am - Put DS in cot already asleep.

11.45am - wakes - Activity

1.25pm - Feeds. 1 and a half ounces apple, banana and rice (wont eat anything else at the moment but did) 8 ounces formula (has to eat before bottle or wont eat food (Solids).

1.40pm - started shush patting DS fought this by squirming and arching his back but was rubbing his eyes and showing signs of tiredness. Wasnt working so I put DS in his cot at 1.50pm he played happily till 2.10pm but wouldnt sleep. he cried so did pu/pd for the first time this took about 40attempts he became inconsolable so I picked him up and rocked him off to sleep in my glider chair.

2.30pm - DS is put in his cot for nap.

4pm - wakes - activity

5.15pm -  1 and half ounces apple, banana and rice, 6 ounces of bottle

Activity till DH comes home from work

6.30pm - Bath with DH, quiet time with DH

I popped out at this point..

7.30pm DH got DS off to sleep but stood up rocking him off which ive stopped doing the Grandmas like this method! DH didnt give DS his last bottle so he has gone to sleep without 4th bottle.

Never dream fed before is that something I could do now....


Hope this is too long but I wanted to list it all exactly.

Many thanks for your time, look forward to hearing from you,

Regards,

Alison

 i will come back online and reply further later on, but my first thoughts are that you should get some extra help on the props board from the ladies who have experience stopping the rocking and feeding to sleep.

is the breakfast bottle problem new and teething related only or is this an ongoing issue? Olivia (my 11 mo old) has never been one to eat straight after waking (even when it has been 12 hrs since last feed) and also never takes her bottle in 1 "go" To avoid snacking though we 1) wait up to 1/2hr or more to offer her food in the morning so she has time to be "up and active" not just awake and 2) we offer the bottle and then give her a 15 min play time break and then she gets another offering and that is it until the next bottle.we went to a clinic when she was 5 mo old because of feeding problems and this was one of the golden rules (i had to fight for the 2nd offer as it i)  babies learn very quickly that there will be constant offers of food and it becomes a cycle of snacking and we are the ones who have to break it. i swear within1 day of stopping the extra/later "top ups" she started increasing her feeds.worth a try anyway (unless there is a physical/medical reason he is not eating at the "feed times")  Also as he is spirited i am not sure where you feed him, but we always had to feed Olivia in her room away from anyone else and even had to dim the lights many times to remove all distractions so she would feed.

Started rocking DS in quiet room as he was showing signs of tiredness, took 30mins

you might try cutting back the time he is awake. for many spirited babies by the time they "show signs of tiredness" you have missed their "window" and that is why it takes 30 min to get him to sleep. as you begin to try to get him on EASY maybe try 1 1/2 hrs awake time max and see if that helps and if he starts going down easily then increase to 1hr 45 and then back tot he 2hrs you are at currently (first nap also happens sooner for spiriteds as this is often their shortest A time of the day)

1.40pm - started shush patting DS fought this by squirming and arching his back but was rubbing his eyes and showing signs of tiredness. Wasn't working so I put DS in his cot at 1.50pm he played happily till 2.10pm but wouldn't sleep. he cried so did pu/pd for the first time this took about 40attempts he became inconsolable

again - at 2hrs to start getting him ready for bed seems to be too late and he is overtired by this point.  stick with shh/pat as i think (especially when overtired) PU/PD winds "up" spirited lo.

Remind DH not to forget his bottle next time :wink: and i would not worry too much about a DF now - at 6 plus months you would be looking at getting rid of it soon anyway - instead i would focus on improving the feeds in the daytime and trust that as his feeding improves and you get him settled for naps earlier things will start to fall into place.  HTH

[HeatherC]

Alison, have you consulted the props board for help with the rocking and/or feeding to sleep? 
Deb gave some great advice, so I can't add too much more.  I would mention to keep in mind that if he's waking at 7:30, but you don't get him up until 8 (I do the same if dd wakes a bit earlier than usual), then that is 30 mins of A time to take into consideration.  If spirited types don't show tired signs as easily, clock watching will really come into play.
My dd's ped. told me that until 9-12 months, formula/bm was more important than the solids, and if she were to decrease her formula intake that I should cut back on the solids until she was back up again.  That is something you might want to consult your ds's ped about.  I have always given solids before the bottle, like you mentioned, but when she wasn't finishing bottles, I would switch it around for awhile.  Like Deb said, there is no harm in waiting 30 mins or so after he wakes in the morning before feeding him.  I wait about 15 mins and have a little A time in her nursery to give her body and mind a chance to wake up.  Then, if he still doesn't finish, try again in 10-15 mins. 
As for the rocking.  I rocked my dd completely to sleep until she was around 4-6 months old I think.  Not b/c I wanted to (although I missed it once she didn't want me to anymore), but b/c I had created the habit.  Anyway, at 4 months I did make a move with pu/pd to decrease how much time I was spending rocking her (up to 30 mins like you).  I set a limit at 10 mins.  Then, whether asleep or awake, I put her down.  This is when I did pu/pd.  She was mad for sure, but it only took 3 days to get her on the track of going to sleep independently.  She learned that I wasn't going to put her to sleep.  I still rocked, but as our wind-down.   Now, she hardly wants it anymore, but sometimes I get a few minutes of cuddles.