New here! Wanted to know if I'm doing this right!

[absn]

Hi everyone!  I'm so glad I found this website, because I have dread the BW book and have been trying to follow the EASY routine since my daughter was born (she is 3 months old).  I am trying to do a four hour routine and I breastfeed her and then also give her formula (I don't make enough milk on my own).  She has no problem getting herself to sleep and is a very good tempered baby (not sure but either an Angel or Textbook).  She also sleeps in her crib.  Anyway, she does very well on the routine, but I find I have problems getting her to sleep through the night.  She still gets up in the middle of the night and some evenings, she gets completely overtired and the EASY thing goes off kilter.  What should her bedtime be?  I'd just like some advice to see if I'm doing this right.  The book talks about not clock watching, yet, you have to watch the clock to keep a routine?  Help!! 

Thanks!

Amy

[HeatherC]

Welcome, Amy, so glad to have you on the site with us.  I felt the same way when I found the website, and it has been my lifesaver.  I read on the back leaf of the book that you could check out the website for more info, and I said to myself, "yes, I certainly do want to do that!"
Anyway, sounds like things are going well for you for the most part.  The best thing for us to be able to help you is to give a typical day's routine.  My first question is whether or not you give a df.  I wanted to immediately suggest giving her more feeding during the day to help with the night wakings if that's why she's waking, but I don't want to jump to conclusions without more background info.  How many times does she wake, and is it at the same time or scattered times?  Many, many babies are fussy in the evenings, but it can be due to overtiredness.  I'd suggest a bedtime from about 12-13 hours after her wake up in the morning.  But can you give us a day's routine and let us help further?

[absn]

Hi Heather!  Thanks for writing me back so soon!  I'm just starting the four hour routine (day 2 in fact).  Before that, we were on a 3 hour routine but I didn't have set times, I just did a three hour EASY routine starting whenever she woke up.  But I started to notice that what I probably was doing wasn't right.  So, with this four hour routine that I've started is so far looking like this:

7am wake and eat
activity
9am - nap
11am - eat
activity
12:30-nap
3:00pm - eat
activity
5/5:30 - nap
(tonight I'm trying the following schedule:)
7pm - eat
bath
7:30/8:00pm to bed for the night
10 or 11 dream feed? 

Now, I've done the df before when she was smaller and it seemed to work, but in putting her back in her crib, she woke up and it was CRAZY - so I'm a little hesitant to try it again.  But I will give it another shot.  I will let you know how this goes and if you have any other suggestions meanwhile, please feel free to let me know!  Oh - I hear her waking up from the nap!  Wish me luck!!!

Thanks again!!

[HeatherC]

I think it is a good idea to have a set wakeup time, give or take 15-30 mins.  One question-how long are her naps?  One thought is to shorten her morning A time to 1.5 hrs unless her nap is good and she's in good spirits for 2 hrs which an angel baby can be.  I realize that you're trying to follow the 4 hr routine, but since she is only 3 mos you might need to make a few adjustments.
I look forward to seeing how your day goes.

[absn]

Hi again Heather!  Ok, I think I'm doing something wrong!!!  Is she too little for a four hour feed?  Are her naps too long?  I'm so confused!  This is day three of getting her on a routine more structured than what I was doing.  The first day went well (when I wrote last) and she started at 7am and pretty much went four hours with two 2 hour naps and then a cat nap in the evening.  But she woke up hungry at 4 am (even with a dream feed where she ate 3 ounces of formula).  She ate and then woke up at 6:30am and went pretty well (although my mom came and watched her in the evening since I'm in a band and had rehearsal and she said that she didn't go down until 9pm - I think she missed her sleep signals).  I did a dream feed at midnight when I got home and she ate 3 ounces and then woke up at 3:30/4 am this morning.  After eating and going back to bed, she woke up again at 6 this morning!  And she woke up at 3 from her afternoon nap (I actually had to wake her) and she ate 3 ounces and then was so tired I just put her back to bed.  She yawned, buried her head in me and refused to eat any more.  I feel like she doesn't eat enough (what is "enough" for a 3 month old?) and is sleeping too much?  But do I force her to stay awake even if she is totally tired?  How do I implement this schedule???  And what about the fact that she gets up at different times in the morning?  How do I get her to get up at the same time?  I am SOOOO confused!!!!!!  Please help!!!!
Thanks!!!
Amy

[HeatherC]

Oh, no!  I didn't mean to imply you were doing anything wrong.  I just wanted to know how long her naps were.  If she's taking 2 x 2 hr naps, that's wonderful!!!  It's actually perfect for a 4 hr schedule.  As far as how much she "should" be eating, I would consult her doctor for a guideline based on her weight, etc.  The thing about the df is to not do it too late, say past 11 pm.  It can sometimes disrupt their sleep and cause wakings.  It's okay though, most of this is trial and error.  Do you feel her night wakings have worsened since trying the df again?  After she woke up at 3, ate, then went back to sleep, how long did she sleep?  In that sort of situation, I wouldn't do much more than 1.5 hrs of sleep just to preserve the night sleep.  But, no, you don't want to keep her awake if she's tired.  You'll find that she'll generally wake around the same time in the morning and there's really not much you can do about it.  Sure, you can play with adjustments to her bedtime and day sleep, but it doesn't always work.  6:30-7 is great, and you can adjust your day accordingly.  If you want to try and keep you day's start at 7, try to hold her off on a feed until then, and she might fall into that cycle.  Just be aware of her sleep cues.  Also, she may have had trouble getting to sleep for your mom b/c it was someone different.
One more thing about the night waking.  She seems to be waking at the same time, but 3 oz is a pretty good feed for a 3 mo.  It may be hunger.  Can she take any more during the day?  Maybe an additional .5-1 oz with each feed?

[absn]

Hi again Heather - sorry not to write back sooner but I've been trying to do some EASY experimenting and get back to you with my results.  And before I begin - thank you for all of your suggestions!! I still can't figure my little one out yet!  She seems to go between a 3 to 4 hour routine every day, and will eat anywhere from 3 to 5 ounces per feeding.  She goes down great for naps, and has pretty much gotten up between 6:30/7am each morning (if she doesn't wake up at 7, I wake her).  So it seems like she's getting the routine for the day.  But around evening, I try to put her down to bed between 7 and 8pm (she usually has a "cat" nap in the late afternoon/early evening, then she eats and has a bath or changes for bed).  I now put her to bed when she's tired but then she just doesn't fall asleep.  She's gone for almost an hour crying (of course, we don't let her go the entire time!!  We wait to have her console herself and then go in and pat her ...all the techniques Tracy teaches in the BW).  But last night for example, I finally went picked her up and fed her again - an hour after I put her down!!!  UGH!!!!  My husband has been starting to do the DF (just want to double check what you suggested - you said to go no longer than 1.5 hours for a DF after she's gone to bed?).  The usual pattern in the night is then her waking at 3 am - but of course then last night, she woke at 2am and again at 5!!  I don't know why since I'm really trying to stick with a routine...why does she keep waking and why do the times change??  Other than this mystery, she's a great baby - wonderful disposition and plays so great by herself, and I even hear her chatting to herself in her crib when she wakes up in the morning or from naps (usually).  Again, any suggestions would be helpful. I feel like I'm just missing something in this equation!! 

Thanks again!
Amy

[HeatherC]

I was referring to the afternoon that she woke from a nap at 3 pm, ate, but was tired right away and went back to sleep.  I was suggesting that her early evening catnap not be longer than 1.5 hours to preserve her night sleep.  The df could be between 10-11 pm, but shouldn't be any later.  I'm glad you dh is helping you.  You need to get your rest.  It's okay if she's varying between 3-4 hr feeds.  She could be going through a growth spurt, which would result in night wakings, especially at varying times.  If this is the case, I would stick closer to the 3 hr schedule to get as many feedings during the day.  Growth spurts can last as long as a week.
Bedtime troubles are also common.  Her crying could be her way of telling you that she's just a tad hungry and needs a top-up before bed.  But, by the end of the day, even after great napping, babies are just knackered and crying is the only way for them to express that.  I would just try for a very calming wind down and maybe do a little extra time than you would for naps.  I used to sit with my dd for 20-30 mins in the evening just cuddling and rocking and "talking" to her.  It was our quiet time, and bedtime is still the longest wind down we have.  Also, try to keep your last part of the evening very low key. 
You are doing so great, and I'm sure your dd is a beautiful, happy child.  The fact that she goes down great for naps and sleeps till 6:30/7 in the morning is pure bliss.

[absn]

Thank you so much for your responses Heather!  I feel much more encouraged to hear that it may not be me but things that are out of my control and I just need to learn to keep reading Cate and go with her leadings.  I'm going to try really winding her down in the PM - we've been doing bathtime but I think rocking and "talking" would be a great thing and might help her relax.  It's just so frustrating when you hear so many people say that their child sleeps through the night with no problem and I'm trying everthing in my power but it still doesn't seem to work.  I know every baby is different, but sometimes, it can make you as the parent feel like such a failure.  Not to mention, getting up every night at 3 am can really play on your nerves!!  Well, again, thank you for the advise and I will be sure to give you an update! 

Best,
Amy