breastfeeding and night wakings?? please help (worried about DS)

[rossilu]

hi!  my son is 5months (tomorrow!) and weighs 20 pounds (so i know he is getting enough milk!) i wish i would have kept a schedule of his eating times b4 starting BW, but i didn't.  he was completely "on demand" for eating, sleeping and playing.  i really want him on a routine (cause i have 2 older sons who are needing me in the evenings (for homework, reading together, etc.) and that was NOT working. we started BW last friday and my biggest problem is already solved, ds is going to sleep around 8 (instead of 11!). and he is going down for naps a bit better (we are still stuck at 30 minutes,though).  well, last night he ate at 7:30, was asleep at 8, had a dream feed at 11:30 and woke at 3:00.  well, we tried pat/shush and pu/pd for the first time at night (usually pat/shush is all we do at naps) and it didn't go well.....he didn't go back to sleep till 4:30.  then he woke again at 5:30 and i fed him, while he did eat, he was def. not "ravished" he nursed a few minutes on one side and fell asleep till 7:00.  my question...should i have just fed him at 3?  was it ok to feed him at 5:30?  what should i do tonight?  should i just not worry about night wakings for now and concentrate on his day routine?  also, he is going b/w 3-4 hours eating during the day.....should i try to get him on a 3.5 schedule?  will that work?  or just keep demand feeding?  please help, i have always attachment parented my children, so this is very new to me ~ but i really appreciate Tracy's philosophy and feel it will work for us.  so, should i focus only on sleep and let him eat as he wishes?  i want to get some sort of routine down b4 we start solids at 6 months.  what are all you mommas doing? thanks so much! (also, ds has never cried so much in his life till we started this...i hope it's really ok....i don't want him to lose trust in me and "give up" on mommy "taking care of him"  i know i am standing right there w/ him, but i feel like a horrible, mean mom when all he wants is for me to hold/nurse him.  reassure me that this is ok?  (cause really when he nurses, he finishes quickly and is done and will lay down easily...but now he is crying for 30 minutes or so before falling asleep and i worry that this is making him more restless??  i feel like it's messing w/ his mind...what must he be thinking??  i am babbling now, but i just want to be sure i am doing the right thing...thanks SO much!

[vmcdonald28]

It sounds as if he wasnt hungry at all - he was simply wanting comforted during the night, and is used to you being there on demand. The fact that he didnt respond well to pu/pd adds to that theory - he wasnt getting what he wanted.
The pu/pd method can take a while to work - a few nights, a few weeks. You might find that he cries less this evening...

Have you thought about giving him a spoonful of baby rice just now, or are you rigid about starting solids at 6 months? It may just be enough to tide him over and make him a little sleepier.

Re: food versus sleep - I would personally concentrate on the sleeping aspect. He will realise what's happening, and will start to eat more when he is able to. And when you do start solids, his appetite will be much more satisfied. It's more important that he learns to comfort himself to sleep, and not to rely on you to comfort him back to sleep.

We found that the PU/PD method didnt work brilliantly for us, so we went onto let him cry it out, going in and pat/sssh'ing him. That worked amazingly for us. Within a couple of nights, he started to goo and gaa and chat to himself, then go to sleep by himself. All babies are different. Be patient, though. I'm sure he'll adjust soon.

[daisymelan]

I agree with the last person, sounds like it was just comfort.

Pat/sh only worked for us until ds was about 4 months... then we had to go to pu/pd.  The pat/shh was too stimulating.  Also, I'm not sure if this would be up your alley, but when ds was at the same stage your lo is at, we used a pacifier to help soothe him.  He doesn't use it regularly, just on the evenings when we were tryign to extend his feeds at night.  This also may work for you.  And if it's just sucking that's soothing him, the paci may work.

Good luck and hang in there.  The reward is worth it.  My ds sleeps through the night now at 6 months regularly.

Jodie

[rossilu]

i'm pretty sure i want to wait till 6 months to start, but maybe...
also, we keep trying pacifiers and won't take any...i have tried nam, nuk, avent and playtex...just bought 2 more yesterday...he spits them out (ugh).  he will suck on my finger and i do that sometimes if he is just starting to get really fussy (before it escalates).  so, tonight should i not feed him?

[daisymelan]

We had the same problem with the paci... i had to hold it in his mouth so I felt like I might as well just be using my finger (which I did before he took teh paci)  But I  just stuck with it and he eventually took it.  I'm sure you have, but have you tried the special breastfeeding pacis?  The good ones I think don't have the clips on the back.... Looks kinda jsut like a bottle nipple?  I lucked out with the nuk ones, but like i said, it probably took months of trying.  He eventually got it and now my finger doesn't get over used.  lol

About not feeding him, I know it will be really hard if you can't find something for him to suck, cuz that seems like what he's doing it for... the soothing action.  Woudl a stuffed animal work?  We had an elephant with a trunk that we used before he took a paci.  He loved sucking that thing.

Good luck!  Hope you find something that works.  I know it will be tough.

Jodie

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Hi there - first of all, take a deep breath.  Change is often hard, and particularly for our lo's because we can't really explain to them what we're doing - or they don't completely understand... and that's why they cry.  You're changing the rules on them.  The most important thing is to be consistent though.  Decide what you want to do, then really stick to it.  If you want to follow Tracy's philosophy, it's really about listening and responding to your babies cues and getting them on a flexible routine, not so much as a schedule. 

Most 5 month old bf babies are eating around every 3-4 hrs, but it can change during the day. A lot of babies can go 4 hrs in the morning, but *cluster feed* in the afternoon - go 3.5 or even up to 2.5 hrs between feeds.  That's where you have to listen to his cues.  If he's eating enough during the day, and he's managed to sleep from the dreamfeed to morning before, then aside from growth spurts, he'll probably not need that 3am feed OR the 5:30 - he might need one of them though, particulary if he's not really hungry when you DO try to feed him.  But it's common for a bf baby to wake at night to feed up to a year.

Definitely work on the sleep. If his naps are 30 min, he might be getting overtired, and that can lead to nightwakings.  You eventually want him to be able to self-soothe to sleep.  Whether that's by nursing and putting down slightly awake, not nursing before sleep, or using a paci or doing pat/shh or pu/pd - you have to decide what you want to do and stick to it.  If you change it up from sleep to sleep, he'll get confused and frustrated and won't know what to do with himself.  As long as you're consistent and let him know what to expect from you, you won't be "messing with his mind". 

Good luck and let me know if you have more questions!