won't sleep between 7-9pm

[home alone]

my

[Florencia]

How long has been since the meal prior that one? you say she takes  afull feed 40 mins after going to bed but how long it's been since she ate? if she won't go back to sleep easily i'd say she's having gas / digestive problems with that feed and I'm interested to know if you can cut that one if she's too full or at least turn that one into a night feed and making it at least 2/3 hours after going to bed. I guess she's used to wake at that mark but she's not hungry enough, hence the trouble setting.

It would be very useful to have a hint on her evening feeds and bedtime rituals and her morning feed so we can think of something

[zelkad]

Does she perhaps fall asleep on the breast/bottle and is being put to sleep this way?  Often when this happens they wake wanting to be put back to sleep in the same way.  Or is she falling asleep on her own when you mention that it only takes 10 minutes?  In that case disregard my first two sentences.  I think Florencia has a great point with the possibility of gas.  I would love to see her day schedule too so we can help you out.

Zelka

[zelkad]

Hi...I don't have a lot of time right now but quickly looking at your schedule I think 3 is far too late to go down for a  2 hour nap....I definitely think that's what's interfering and causing her to go to bed so late.  Maybe you could get her second nap to be around 1 and no earlier so she is more tired and may sleep longer than 40 minutes.    You may have to do this in small increments if she really is used to going down at 12:30.  Ideally, you want her waking at 2:30/3:00 and going to bed at 7.  Because she's so young she may need a catnap of 30 minutes around 5 or so.  Like I said, I'll try to write more later when i have more time.  Let me know what you think

[zelkad]

Hi!!  Remember that if you keep her up, try to do it in small increments.  I'd hate to see you put off her nap till later and have her overtired by then...it's all so confusing isn't it?!   Maybe it would help to take her out of the house or do something different to keep her occupied until the second nap time (but then again she'll probably fall asleep in the car to complicate things more! Just wondering too, when she does go for the nap around lunch does she go down easily? 

Good luck

Zelka

[zelkad]

Hi...I'm glad naps are working better for you!   I wish I knew what to say about putting her down for the night.  Maybe you could get some more advice from one of the sleep moderators...they're full of great ideas.  How did it end up tonight?  I'll do my best to think of some more suggestions.  Routine is definitely important for bedtime but if you have it I just don't know what else to suggest (for now anyway)

Hang in there!!

[zelkad]

I so know what you mean about not getting support because of friends/family who believe in child-led routines!!

Anyhow, I was thinking in the back of my mind too that 2 - 2hr naps and a catnap was a lot.  I hesitated to mention it only because your lo is 5 months old and I'm not sure what is typical at this age.  I didn't want to compare her schedule to our son's because he is 6 months older.  I can't quite remember when our lo went to two 1 1/2 hour naps. Anyhow, right now our lo sleeps at 9/9:30 for 1 1/2 hrs and again from 1:30/2 for 1 1/2 hours.  Sometimes the naps only last 1hr15 min.  Regardless, I do believe that too much daytime sleep does affect night.   I'd say reducing the length of the two longer naps is a good idea.  Yes, I would agree that the pm nap is more important.  You may want to find out when catnaps are normally given up (can't remember about that either )  If she's ready for that, I wouldn't reduce the length of the pm nap.  Amyway, just some thoughts!!

[Florencia]

I don't think that he's ready to quit his catnap. Many of the lo's i know weren't until 8/9 months. Also, 2 hour naps is what we all look for so I'd say you have the right elements in the wrong timings. If she's going down easily that means she's tired enough so I wouldn't recommend much tweaking with her naps.

What seems to be needed is extra awake time in the evening so she goes down tired and easily as she does on mornings. She's awake by 5 PM and i remember my ds was able to manage 2.5 hour stretches by that age. Maybe when she wakes at 5Pm, do not feed her, play with her for a while and then do your bedtime routine in a way that she's in bed by 730 instead of 645 as you're putting her. IF you manage to make that looong wind down is more likely that she'll be rested and by eliminating the 2oz tanking that you're putting at 5pm you might have her hungry and tired by bedtime.

Might worth a try! Please keep us posted on how it goes and what changes you're making so we can see what works and what doesnt. Hang in there!

[Florencia]

Hi! I'm sorry things are not getting better, but don't worry, we'll think of something...

to answer one of your questions, I don't think you're causing too much confusion with the time changings, unless Mia is a touchy baby, because in that case, she'll need a super structured and accurate routine. When my son was Mia's age i remember us doing things as the day turned, more like in time stretches than schedules.

For what i see in the feeding routine you're giving me, she's having between 32 to  34 0z of milk a day. That's quite a lot!!!! how much she weighs? is she a big baby. There are two options: either she's a big baby and she's ready for solids (there's a rule that when lo is taking 30 or more oz of milk a day is time to introduce solids to give the body the calories it needs) or she's a small baby and she's drinking that much milk because of her reflux issues. Remember that one of reflux symptoms is heartburn and the discomfort caused by heartburn is easily calmed with a few sips of water/milk. SO there's the posibility that she's drinking because of pain more than hunger, and that would explain why she's not finihsing her bottles.

At her age, an average intake per meal is 5 oz (im in Mexico and peds measure fluid intake per months, that is 4 mos 4 oz, up to 8 months, 8 oz..). Is she in 4 hour easy? she's ready for that. Is she on reflux meds? that would be also one hint to the puzzle.

I don't think pat/ shsh has an "expiring date". I still use it and my ds is 19 months old! So i'd say, use it as long as it works for you. WHen you see it's not working anymore, try something else but stick to it. The key to find results is consistency (I know it's hard to find when things are out of control).

So if Mia is needing a 7 pm bedtime, let's stick to it. I don't think the naps are a problem since she's having the proper amount of sleep recquired for her age (i remember struggling with LOTS of 45 mins naps at that age, so you're lucky on that side!). In the "... solves all your problems" book there's a 4 hour easy sample schedule. I think you might want to give that one a try, varying it from the time she's up for the day (say if she's up at 615 instead of 7am, follow the schedule with 45 mins ahead for each part).

So what we're struggling here with is her refusing to go to bed at night. And it sounds like reflux/gas/feeding related. I think we'd find answers by tweaking her feeding schedules.

Don't worry, we'll figure this out!

[zelkad]

How wonderful!!!!!! 

So happy to hear!