All of a Sudden - Short Naps

[Mom to M&M]

Hi all. All of a sudden, DD started taking short naps (23 weeks, 2 days). Yesterday she took 35 minutes in am, 2x20 minutes in afternoon and 2x30 min catnap. I think most of this is due to increased rolling and to teething, but hard to say for sure. Have tried more A time, less A time... Trying to extend with pat/shush or PU/PD only wakes her up more. W2S seems to disrupt her sleep too much.

When I put her in lately she fusses and talks and cries and rolls and often takes up to 20 minutes to fall asleep.

Is all this likely just a sign of teething discomfort? Or something else I should adjust?

Currently her A times are 2 hours in am, 2 1/4 in afternoon and 2 1/2 before catnap - those A times include windown.

[Meg's Mom]

When I put her in lately she fusses and talks and cries and rolls and often takes up to 20 minutes to fall asleep.

Hi Karen - sorry you are having troubles - big sigh!  the above statement leads me to think you should stick w/ the longer A times.  Remember to give it a few days min to have some effect.

Is all this likely just a sign of teething discomfort

what r you doing for the teething?

[Mom to M&M]

Hi Meg. Thanks for your response - I also emailed you with more details! As for teethiing, just Tylenol. The Hylands seems to make her reflux worse, as does Orajel. Argh.

[Idahomom]

I just posted some support to a mom on the general sleep issues.  Just wanted to support you also to keep with it.  My ds just went through a growth spurt / increased activity (he can now roll over both ways, creep, and sit with very little support)  he was off his naps for about 4 days, now back on track.  2 days of PU/PD with shh/pat then 2 days of shh/pat in his crib.  He now needs just a little shh/pat and rolls around a little, then settles in.  Back on track with longer naps.  Hang in there   PS...has nighttime sleeping been effected?  Suprisingly my ds's was not.

[Mom to M&M]

She is still sleeping pretty well at night but waking a bit early. And she is doing a lot and I know that's likely affecting the naps but at this point am at a loss for whether  to extend A time, shorten A time or do something else!

[Caroline-Charlies Mummy]

Hi Karen,
I'm with Michelle on trying to extend the A times. You need to do it gradually, in small amounts of time, like 5 minutes every day, and be consistent with it. Chopping and changing her A time will only confuse her.

For the teething, have you tried a teething gel? I found Dentinox to be very good, but I don't know what you can get over there. It just basically numbs the area.

HTH 

[Mom to M&M]

Thanks guys - will try that. It's hard sometimes because I'm not exactly sure as to what time she woke up in the morning. I'll often hear her on the monitor around 5 am but "think" she dozes back off until about 6. But it's hard to say for sure.

What would you suggest as good A times to try? She's 5.5 months (will be 6 months Feb 11) and I'd say textbook/spirited. She's very active when awake - squealing, shrieking, grabbing things, trying to creep, rolling, playing in exersaucer, etc.

As for teething gels, have tried Orajel but it made her reflux worse (or so it seemed, could have been a coincidence). Grr. Wish I'd see some chompers already - feel like she's been teething for months - or maybe I just use that as an excuse!

[Meg's Mom]

Karen, I'll read  your email tomorrow...w/ Megan sick time is short, but thank you for all your tips on our problem :-).  It is so nice we all have found a place to help each other .

From what i remember Marisa has always been able to handle longer A times, so to answer your question:

2.5 hrs for am nap & 2-3 from end of am to start of pm.  Now i know you already know to do this very gradually (or it will back fire) and to keep at it for at least 1 week.  Also Charlie's Mum reminded us, chopping and changing will confuse everyone, especially Marisa.  It could be she is ready to drop the catnap.  That being said, we dropped our catnap at this age and then TOOK it back at 7mos when Megan was rocking and rolling (literally).

Stick w/ the Tylenol, if given regularly - then we should be able to rule it out of the nap/sleep equation. 

PS: I too have stopped the teething tabs as part of our elimination diet challenge - Megan was taking them 4XS a day so they may too have added to her reflux.  thanks for sharing :-)  I'll let you know if think it makes any difference when i re-introduce in a few weeks.

[Mom to M&M]

Thanks Michelle - totally understand re Meg being sick and take your time.

Not sure if the Hylands were definitely causing a  problem, but she seemed to small vomit more and be generally uncomfortable the days I would use them. Not sure if it's because they have a lactose base or because of the chamomile (I have a seasonal allergy myself to chamomile, which is part of the ragweed family). Will keep trying with the Tylenol too. Other things I "think" may be contributing are hunger (possibly six month growth spurt)? I can get her to drink a bit more during the day but only so much with her reflux and no solids yet - we had tried at 4.5 months but her tummy wasn't ready. And also the rolling - hard for her to get/stay comfortable.

Will try slowly with the longer A times. Most days she still seems to want/need some form of catnap - at least until her naps lengthen out and the last one goes until at least 3:30 I would think... She is SO active these days.

Look forward to hearing from you. Hope Meg feels better soon.

Edited to add: Found her tummy sleeping this morning. Seemed comfortable but at the same time stirring and crying out for 10 seconds every 10-20 minutes. So I guess a lot of this may be developmental? Just realized when watching her that she was crying out every time she stirred and tried to lift her head (which she does very well - amazing head and neck strength). I think she doesn't understand how to sleep this way yet - she thinks tummy is still for play/activity. Anything I can do here to help?

[Mom to M&M]

Hey guys. I've managed to get two great days of naps - Monday and Tuesday I had to wake her after 1.5 hours for both morning and afternoon nap. Monday I got a 25 min catnap (stroller) and yesterday a 35 minute one (pack n play). I extended her A time just a tiny bit - we did 2 hours before putting into crib in am and 2 hours 10 minutes before going in afternoon and 2 hours 15 before catnap. Changed her wind down - since she's somewhat spirited. Am now making the last 10-15 minutes of A time in her bedroom with dim lights - we sit in her chair and she looks at the ceiling fan and holds her teddy, I read her a story and then we get into sleep sack and sing one lullaby, turn on white noise and into crib.

Both days it took her about 10 minutes to fall asleep - just minor fussing and a bit of rolling to get comfortable and then out. Sometimes stirs at 45 minute mark and partially awakens (particularly at afternoon nap) but put self right back to sleep.

Couple of questions.

- Should I continue to wake her after 1.5 hours in order to try to get good other naps and bedtime between 7:30/8pm? I was doing this because currently it seems she does still need the catnap so I want to try to fit at least a short one in
- What happens when she starts day very early? Lately, at some point in middle of night, DD is rolling onto tummy and sleeping that way. For example, this morning at 4am I got up to go to bathroom and snuck into her room to check on her - sleeping peacefully on tummy. Since she can roll and lift her head and whole upper body very high, I wasn't worried. However, come 5-5:30 am, she's always very restless. So at 5:35 this morning she started crying pretty loudly, even though she sounded half asleep. Went in there after a minute or two and she was half picking head off mattress - I think the problem is that once she starts stirring in early am she doesn't yet understand how to sleep on tummy and keeps trying to pull herself up - as she would at play/exercise time.

So I rolled her onto side - but the problem is that woke her more fully. But if I kept her on tummy she would have kept crying in half sleep. I let her try to fall back asleep for a bit but come 6:15 am she didn't sound close and it seemed too late in morning to keep trying so just got her up. Since this is earlier than usual (normally between 6:40-7), should I try to extend her A times all a TINY bit more and let her naps all be a LITTLE longer (like 1:75 instead of 1.5)? Her overnight sleep was only from 8pm-5:30am because of the tummy stuck issue. If this had happened earlier (say at 4am instead of 5:30) I'd likely have been able to get her back to sleep - but it normally takes up to an hour of her talking to herself and tossing and turning to do so.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance! Also, am I doing the right thing by rolling her onto side at this point? Anything else I can/should do?

[Caroline-Charlies Mummy]

Hi Karen, I haven't got much time, but I noticed this post getting buried, so I thought I'd bump it up for you

My quick answers to your questions:
-if she is sleeping for much longer than 1.5 hours, then, yes I would wake her to keep the timings under control. If it's just a question of 5 or 10 minutes, then I wouldn't bother. Remember EASY is a routine, not a schedule

-if you think her sleeping on her tummy is a problem, then have you tried a wedge to keep her sleeping on her side, and to stop her rolling on her tummy? Also, during A time, how about some quiet time on her tummy, so she doesn't associate ALL tummy time with play?

HTH, sorry I have to be quick

[Mom to M&M]

Thanks Caroline.

Actually, we recently weaned DD off the sleep positioner - so no re-introducing that! She's also doesn't really know the meaning of "quiet time" - very active. What would you suggest to encourage quiet tummy time during A?

Also, thanks re nap timings...

[Mom to M&M]

Me again. So after a week of really good naps, we are back to problems. Yesterday, after restless night sleep and waking early for day, DD took only 48 minute morning nap (couldn't extend). Managed to keep her up and relatively calm until almost her normal second nap time (maybe about 20 minutes early) and then she took a 1.5 hour nap but woke up still tired and cranky but not going back to sleep. And then restless 40 minute catnap later.

Then today, she slept well overnight but again woke early (5:10 am). Part of this is a noise issue we are working on fixing. Tried to keep her up and extend A time but then she only took a 25 minute nap. Then, after almost an hour of trying, got her to take another 30 minutes. We are 45 minutes into second nap now and hoping for best...

Basically, I'm trying to figure out how to keep her from getting so overtired. If she does wake early in the morning, am I best putting her down after 2-2:15 A time (her usual) or trying to extend to stretch the day back out? Same goes for rest of day - if she takes short first nap do I put back down early or try to extend? And does the A time start when I first hear her in crib waking (she generally talks and rolls and squeals) or when I get her up? Or in the middle thereof? BTW, have tried earlier bedtimes, later bedtimes, etc - doesn't change things. I do find though that days she wakes up much before 6am we have more trouble rest of day. So I try to resettle her in early morning but if she wakes after 5am it's usually up for day - she may be tired still but I guess too close to wake time to go back to sleep?

Separately, we are dealing with some possible health issues - so I know to deal with that first and then sleep training - but trying to make DD as rested and comfortable as possible in the meantime and would need these questions addressed anyway longterm...

Sorry so many questions. But thanks!

Uh oh - DD stirring and crying after 48 minutes.. Have to run.

[Caroline-Charlies Mummy]

Hi Karen,

Poor you, it's awful when you think things are going well, and then they throw a spanner in the works, isn't it? Sounds to me like the restless night's sleep got her overtired, and she just needs to catch up. All I can advise is persistence, I'm afraid.

As for quiet tummy time, well, I'm not sure, as ds HATES t-t, even now, always has done, so I'm not the expert . But, when we do need quiet time, we read a book together (I read it, he chews it , or we have a walk around the garden, pointing things out. Maybe some music could help, too. We've got some relaxing classical music that ds loves, that always helps keep him calm.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out how to keep her from getting so overtired. If she does wake early in the morning, am I best putting her down after 2-2:15 A time (her usual) or trying to extend to stretch the day back out?

I'm not sure what the others think, but I would be inclined to put her down after her usual A time (if not a little sooner) if she has woken early, as that is when A time is the shortest usually. You don't want to extend it too far and tire her out. If necessary, she could have another catnap later on.

I hope her health issues work out well, and you're right about dealing with those first, and sleep training second, but, as you say, if she is well rested, that can only help.

Please let us know how you are getting on