struggling w/ BW ~ waking after 30 minutes happy?

[rossilu]

hi!  i have been sort of undecided about BW ~ i want ds (5 months) on a routine, but i'm having a hard time justifying spending close to 2 hours to get him to take a 30 minute nap when i can nurse him for 5 and still get a 30 minute nap?  it has worked wonders for us at bedtime (going down drowsy at 7, asleep in 20-30 minutes, and sleeping up till dream feed)  (but we are still having 1-2 night wakings in which he does eat) anyway, i still want to try for daytime BUT ~ what do you do when your lo wakes from a 30 minute nap WIDE awake, happy and smiling?  he takes between 2-3 30 minute naps a day...can i consolodate them into 2 longer ones?  just to see what he'd do, yesterday i nursed him...layed him down, and then after he was in a deep sleep i picked him up and held him...he slept almost 2 hours.  does this show that he needs longer naps?  if so, how can i get him to take them w/o holding him or spending 3 hours w/ him by his crib??? please help.
(also he is 5 months and 20 pounds, i was holding off solids till 6 months but could he just need more calories to sleep longer??)

[rossilu]

thanks stacy!

he actually can (and does) go to sleep independently but it takes so long!! (in comparison to nursing) i have not nursed him TO sleep since starting, but he does nurse right before going to sleep and then i lay him down awake ~ drowsy ~ but awake, and it still takes him about 20-30 minutes to fall asleep (as opposed to the 5 minutes it takes if i were to lay him down already "sleeping")
actually tonight he did awesome ~ i bathed him, read to him, fed him and then put him in his crib awake and he babbled and tossed and turned for about 10 minutes, then i ran to answer the phone and when i came back he was asleep! 
but these 30 minute naps are killing me!  i have tried wake to sleep, and catching him at the first stir but he wakes w/ smiles and babbles...should i still try and get him to go back down? thanks!

[Colesmom]

rossilu-that's great that he settled himself for bed!  He's catching on.  Patience and consistency are the trick for short naps, for all sleep training really.  How long did you try wake to sleep for?  It could take a few days, doing it for all naps.  Also-have to tweaked awake time?  I know I've posted to you before, but I can't quite remember where you were with respect to A time.

I know it's easier to nurse him to sleep, but you won't want to be doing that months from now, and habits are easier to break now that when your lo is older.  "Start as you mean to go on"...wise words!

thanks

[rossilu]

thanks!  i know his A time is too long, but sometimes he will just lay and babble in his crib and still not sleep.  last night was torture (after he fell asleep so well at 7 he had a dream feed at 10:30 then woke at 1:30, 3:30, 4:00, 5:00 and finally up at 7:00)  THEN i tried to lay him down at the first sleep signs (around 9) but he had NOTHING to do w/ that!  after an hour i gave up...brought him downstairs for some quiet time and tried again at 10:00....he fussed and fussed (but wasn't screaming) so i came downstairs and listened on the monitor...i checked on him every few minutes and he finally fell asleep at 11, and slept till 11:27.  so he was awake from 7-11 and slept 1/2 hour.  after he got up i tried feeding him (feeds are ALL off schedule) then had more quiet activity till about 1 when we ran out to the store.  he fell asleep (in stroller) at 2:15 (up for 2 hours 45 minutes) and slept till 3:45 (1 1/2 hours YAY) but, i stayed in the car so i wouldn't have to move him and so i could read some of BW solves your problems) ~ then we gave him his first cereal tasting at 4:30 (he did great...LOVED it) and then quiet activity til 6 (which included introducing yet another pacifier...and...HE TOOK IT!  the clear nuc pacifier...HE TOOK IT.  so at 6 i gave him a bath, nursed him (cause he hadn't since 1, but hadn't wanted it earlier and i am trying to let him get good and hungry so he'll actually eat instead of snack).  then we read a book, cuddled, i swaddled him (we haven't really done this since about 2 months) gave him his paci and he laid quietly from 7 till just now (w/ me checking every time he fussed...) he is ASLEEP!  so, i'm thinking that the dream feed is messing his schedule up cause he eats right before bed and is not hungry at the DF so doesn't eat, then wakes in time for another nibble and so forth.  so, i'm gonna see what time he naturally wakes tonight (w/out the DF) and hopefully (w/ the help of the pacifier) get him to wait till morning to eat (w/ only 1 feeding no later than 2 or 3) so he will EAT.  what do you think?  also, should i give him cereal or nurse 1st thing in the morning?  should he have it 1 time tomorrow or for breakfast, lunch and dinner?  anyway, maybe we can break this cycle and i can get him hungry when he wakes, so he can be on a real E-A-S-Y.  also, DH is staying home tomorrow to help me!  i hope it starts to get better now....

[Colesmom]

hi-sorry you had such a rough night.  couldn't hurt to see how he does without the dreamfeed.  he might surprise you.

also, should i give him cereal or nurse 1st thing in the morning?  should he have it 1 time tomorrow or for breakfast, lunch and dinner?

You should nurse first.  Breast Milk/Formula are the main source of nutrition up to one year of age.  If he just started cereal today then I would stick with it just once a day for a few days.  You want to give his body time to adjust.  Too much too soon might constipate him.

THEN i tried to lay him down at the first sleep signs (around 9) but he had NOTHING to do w/ that!  after an hour i gave up

what was he doing when you tried to put him down?  crying?  what did you do for the hour...pupd?  pat/shh?  just curious.  It takes time for our los to understand that they are supposed to be sleeping...it will pay off to be consistent.

HTH

[rossilu]

thanks so much for helping!  when i put him down for naps, he usually cries.  i do pat/shush and/or pu/pd depending on his intensity.  last night was better but we still had some trouble ~

asleep by 7:30
woke to eat at 11:30
woke at 1:35 (dh gave paci....he fell back to sleep in under 5 minutes)
woke to eat at 2:47
woke at 4:17 (dh gave paci...fell right back to sleep)
woke at 5:35 (fell back to sleep on his own around before 6)
woke for the morning at 7:30

well, he is not acting hungry....so i guess i'll wait to feed him...then try some cereal.  what time should i start winding him down?  i'm thinking 9?
thanks again for all of your help. (also we are only going to give the paci in the crib...is this a good idea?)

[rossilu]

thanks stacy!  i think he is starting to develop self sleep, but i did nurse him to sleep for the 1st 4months ~ but he was still pretty good about putting himself to sleep if he woke when i layed him down.  he also would be laying on his playmat, and just fall asleep on his own often during the day (around 2-3 months) it was when he hit 4 mos, and a bout of illnesses ran through our house (we also have a 10 year old and almost 8 year old) that sleeping just went nuts.  till then, i always laid him back in his crib after he ate at night (usually 1 time, sometimes 2, and this was before starting a dream feed), but during that time (4 months and illnesses) i usually just fell asleep w/ him in the bed (i know, i know).  so, i just started the paci so he could self sooth (his fingers were just not cutting it) and he spits it out after he is asleep....we are giving it at night, to wean him off of night nursings...is this not a good idea?  should we just go cold turkey w/ nothing?  pu/pd just escalates him too much, too quickly.  he settles much better in the crib (w/ lots of tossing and turning and kicking even now that we have started swaddling him again) but it seems he needs this.  no matter how tired he is when i lay him down he goes through this period of tossing, kicking and fussing...then drops off suddenly.
today, he woke at 7:30
ate at 9
started quiet activity around 9:15 (books)
went upstairs at 9:30, i swaddled him, gave him his paci and held him about 5 minutes...he seemed to want to lay down so i laid him in the crib at 9:45
i had to put the paci in a few times (cause he kept accidentally knocking it out of his mouth w/ his free hand)
he didn't fuss too much, just cooed and such and didn't toss and turn as much as usual
he fell asleep by 10:05
i'm gonna try wake to sleep at 10:35
do i actually WAKE him up?  or just nudge him?  hopefully you'll get back to me b4 then!  i am trying to  break the 30 minute nap habit (i swear i could set a clock by it!)
thanks again for all of your help, it is great having somewhere to go and talk about this!

[rossilu]

you've been a great help!  i went up at exactly 25 minutes and he jolted right at 30 so i put in the paci ~ he jolted again at 45 and put himself back to sleep...he slept till 11:25!!! 1.5 hours!  i hear him babbling up there now (just woke) so i'm gonna go let him see how proud i am!  thanks!

[Colesmom]

hi rossilu-sounds like you're making great progress.  Did DH try to give soother at the 2:47 waking?  I agree with Stacy-try to have him go 6-8 hours without a feed, so you'd be better giving the soother at a waking between 2 and 3 and feeding after 4:30. Also- are you giving it to have him fall back asleep, and it drops out or you take it out...or do you leave him with it?  It would be best to take it out if you can after he's asleep...or it will be harder to wean when the time comes.

[rossilu]

thanks so much guys ~ afternoon nap was shorter (but dh took care of that one so i'm not complaining =)

tonight i will try the dream feed before 11
i will also have dh give paci at all night wakings afterwards??
he spits the paci out right after he falls asleep....is this good?

thanks again!

[rossilu]

well, he did pretty good last night, but has now decided he does NOT like the paci anymore (at least last night) it worked out ok cause when dh tried to give it to him, he fussed more and when dh just let him be...he fell asleep on his own.  so should we just ignore these wakenings unless he starts really crying?  (i still had to feed him at 2 and 6 though....and he ate, he must be gowing through a growth spurt b/c i have noticed that i am STARVING lately and that he is emptying both sides as opposed to just one at a time)