Going nuts with 9mo's early wakings

[Pominoz]

Some of you may remember me from a recent thread about early wakers.  My dd is 9mo and has been waking between 4.30 and 5am since she started sleeping through at about 6mo.

After posting on that thread I was under the impression that the key was to push her first nap forward as far as possible, and to move her from a 3 nap day onto a 2 nap day.  Well, I did this, and at the end of about 10 days we had three days (oh what blissful days they were) when she woke later (5.05am, 5.15am and then 5.30am).  But the past 2 days she seems to have regressed even further back than before - 4.30 on the dot yesterday and today  .

I'm getting a little desperate with this.  4.30am is no time to be getting up.

I feel like I've exhausted all the options.  I've tried ignoring her, re-settling with the dummy, feeding her and putting her back to bed, earlier bedtime, later bedtime, pushing the first nap forward.  NOTHING works.  Do I just have to live with it?

Our routine is roughly like this:

4.30-5am wake up 
8.30am first nap (sleep for about 1.5 hours)
1.30am second nap (sleep for 1.5 hours)
6.15ish bed

I don't see how I can stretch her out any further between waking and the first nap - yesterday and today she will have had to go four hours, and that is pretty much stretching her to the absolute limit.  And we have to do the 6.15pm bedtime so that she doesn't get overtired.

PLEASE PLEASE if you have any suggestions whatsoever I would be so grateful.

Thanks

Emma

[Pominoz]

Actually I should just add - for the past few days, that first nap has just been one hour.  Have no idea why.  This has obviously made the day even longer to get through.

[Richelle]

Hi,

What a dilemna oyyyy!   with a bedtime of 6ish a 5 to 6AM wakeup is to be expected, I know a dream opposed to 430AM but bare with me.  I can think of a few things that may help.

First, how does she eat and what?

The first is a little complicated so I will start there.  I think a later bedtime might help, I know, the whole over tired thing but I find at this age it is easier to manipulate (for lack of a better phrase) my dd (9 months as well).  I also found it easier to stretch her A time in between her 2 naps.  If you did it gradually by 5-10 minutes over a week you will eventually get to a later nap, therefore a later bedtime (like 7PM) and hopefully a later wake up. 

Secondly, I think your DD napping only an hour is very normal.  If my dd gets more than 2/2.5 MAX hours of sleep a day it effects her wake up time.  So, if you gradually shift her naps forward and allow for 1 hour to 1.25 hours for her naps you may end up with a 7PM to 6/7ish night sleep and 930/10 nap (1 hour) and 2/230ish nap (for about an hour) and bedtime of 7PM and her A times shouldn't be condusive to overtiredness.

Thirdly is Wake to Sleep.  I am not sure if you know the finer details or have given it a try but it is in both books.  The basic premise is to help your LO readjust their sleep pattern by waking them slightly with a gentle wiggle or hand on back before their general wake up time.  For example if your DD's general habit of waking is 430AM, set your alarm and go in to 'disrupt' her habitual sleep cycle and hopefully her body will adjust accordingly.  In BWSAYP it is explained on pg. 191-192, 251 & 283.

I HTH, I hope you are 'sleeping in soon'. 
 

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Emma

I do remember you from the other thread    Sorry things are still so rough for you.

We have been having early wake up times too - although not as early as yours - more like around 5.30am.  We seem to be coming to a breakthrough though and have had 6.10 and 6.40am wake ups the past two days.

We have consistently held nap 1 out to commence at 9.30am.  Yes, that is a long stretch from a 5.30am wake up (and a VERY long stretch from a 4.30am wake up) but I knew that if we couldn't try to shift DS clock a little we would be stuck with those early wake ups.  So we were back to trying all the holding out methods we used when DS was younger and we were trying to stretch his routine - walks in the garden, really long winddown sessions etc. 

The other thing we have done is limit that am nap to 60mins.  I did some further research which suggested that you limit that am nap to 40-45 mins which I didn't want to do but was prepared to do if we didn't start to see some results.  In fact, Fraser first nap for the past 2 days (with those slightly later wake up times) has been 45 mins so maybe that is telling. 

Finally, like Richelle suggested, you might want to fiddle around with bedtime a bit and see if you can get some kind of improvement from that end.  However, I would suggest you push it back in short increments.  Other research I have read says that a bedtime past 7pm will exacerbate early wakings so I would be reluctant to go beyond 7 (that said, bedtime here is 7.15 - just seems to be the right time for DS)

Anyway, big hugs because I know how hard those early wakings are.  I often think of you in those early mornings - I remember reading that you strap your DD into the pram and head off down the road for a nice coffee to actually do something nice with that early morning hour.  I think that's a great idea!

I know it's going to be hard work Emma but lets all put our thinking caps on for you and get this sussed before the end of summer (and the end of Daylight Savings).  Keep us informed about how things are going.

Cheers
Jo

 

[Katet]

Emma, have to agree, the 8.30am wakeup is still probably too early, I give Liam a 9am nap (8months) & that is only because on 3 days we have 10am activities, so I have to wake him at 9.45am to get out the door. When Aiden was 9 months we always aimed for 9.30/10am for his nap. Our second nap is at 1pm & then bed 6.45/7pm... sometimes he has to last 4 + hours in the evening & I manage that simply by giving him a 45min bath after a walk in the pram - weather permitting & he tends to wakeup at about 6.30am

I would try pushing for 10mins every few days, honestly if does work, but you just have to keep pushing it back & then as bedtime gets later (too) so should wake ups... I have never had either of my boys sleep the "wonderful 12 hour stretch" the best I have ever got is 11.5 hours, but mostly it is about 11 for Aiden & 11.5 for Liam

[Pominoz]

Thanks for the replies. 

Well the consensus still seems to be to stretch her out further, plus try a slightly later bedtime.

The problem is, by making her go 4.30am to 8.30am I am already stretching her to the absolute max.  We've had a couple of overtired meltdowns, and obviously that's not good.  So I'm kind of stuck.

I did try wake-to-sleep but she woke even earlier, so I'm a bit afraid to try it again.

The events of the past 24 hours were -

Yesterday (after waking at 4.30am) she had her nap at 8.30am, napped for one hour.  I was aiming to put her down for another nap at about 1pm (1.30 if poss), but seriously she was SO tired at about 11.45 (we were heading for a meltdown), that I ended up giving in and putting her to bed.  She slept until 1pm, so then I put her down for a late nap at 4pm so that I could put her to bed a bit later.  She went to bed at about 6.50pm. 

This morning she woke at 4.10am.  I was just about ready to admit myself to the local psych hospital  .  But there was no way 4.10am could be classified as morning, so I just proceeded as though it was the middle of the night (resettling etc).  She fussed on and off until about 4.50am, when she went into full on crying.  I let her cry for a little bit, going in and out and patting etc., for about 15 minutes.  Still crying.  Just after 5am I tried to give her a breastfeed, but couldn't get a let down (I think both of us were just so exhausted).  Put her back to bed (about 5.10am) and we both went back to sleep until about 6.10am.

So that was all pretty bad, but different from the norm.  I put her down for her nap at 9.20am, which at least is a "normal" time.

Now - if any of you read this fairly soon, could you please advise as to what time you think I should put her down for her second nap, and bedtime?

Thanks so much.  I do hope I can report at least a little improvement soon.

Emma

[Katet]

Emma, I think that is an improvement BIG TIME, the fact you got her back to sleep in an hour shows she really has just lost the last hour or so of night time to day sleep... I think you need to say, you will keep trying to resettle until 6am EVERY DAY.

Re the 2nd nap... aim for 3-3.5 hours from when she wakes up, so if it is 10.30 then make it 1.30 or 2 if she isn't upset... the ideal you would want would be 9.30/10 & 2/2.30pm for her naps for a 7pm bedtime...that said I can get Liam (8months to a 6.45pm bed time on a 9am (45-60mins) & a 1.30-3pm..which I need to do otherwise we would never get out of the house or I would be having a VERY antisocial & tired toddler

[Richelle]

Emma, I agree with Kate that it is a GREAT thing that you got her BACK to sleep, well done!!  Now you know that you can do it and if you can talk yourself into a week or so to devote to getting her back to sleep it would solve your problems!

[Pominoz]

OK, here's what's happening - yesterday turned out pretty well.  She slept 9.15 until 10.45am, then 2pm until 3.30pm.  She then had a 7pm bedtime.  Wake up this morning was 5.15am (MUCH better), and she went down for her first nap at 9am. 

So........that all looks quite promising.  I think that maybe she does need a slightly later bedtime - perhaps she is one of those babies who only needs 10-11 hours sleep a night. 

Thanks to those who are still listening!

E

[mattandcindy]

Emma-I also remember you from the earlier post. I am SO sorry you are still having problems. Not getting enough sleep will derail the best of us.
I completely agree with what everyone else has said-probably too little too late for me though!
It sounds like the last two days have been an improvement. I will cross my fingers that it continues to improve and that you get the sleep YOU need!

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Yay Emma that sounds like great progress! 

I have found that DS rarely wants more than 11 hours sleep - I have resigned myself to the fact that I will probably never have a 12 hour through the nighter.  But then I think, hey, more time for me to spend with him    He's a great little person to have around so why wish away that extra hour right.  I'll enjoy it while he still wants to spend time with me.

Anyway, I'm so pleased for you.  Keep giving us those updates.
Cheers!
Jo

[Pominoz]

Cindy & Jo - thanks for checking up on me!!

Well, I think we are having a little progress, albeit slow!

Yesterday Miss Tamsin woke at 5.15, had two naps (both 1.5 hours) at 9.00 and 2.00, then bed at 7pm.  Today was almost identical, except wake up was 5am on the dot. 

So at least the schedule is starting to look a little more as you would expect from a 9.5 month old. 

I'm still hoping that wake up time might move forward - but maybe she doesn't need any more sleep? 

One thing that DH and I both noticed this weekend - and I'll tell you just in case this is a clue to anything - Tamsin is really tired and quite grouchy during the morning, but then gets more and more cheerful as the day progresses.  Now this seems to be entirely different from what she was like when she was a young baby - we used to have "witching hour" late in the afternoon.  Now she is an absolute delight during the late afternoon.  Do you think that holds any clues?

Thanks for still listening!

Emma

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hey Emma

Fraser is also super grouchy on days when he wakes up early, right up until after his first nap (although he usually gets a second wind around 8.45 or so to get him through to 9.30 ok).  He is much better on the days when he has slept in a bit later - so I guess it's all linked.

The only other thing I can think of for you - Fraser is only about 3 weeks older than Tamsin - and for a little while now he has been only taking about 2 - 2.5 hours total of day sleep - maybe you could gradually reduce one of your naps back to an hour to see if that adds anything on to the night sleep for you.  (I would reduce nap 1 because that it the one that will eventually be dropped).

Cheers
Jo

[Katet]

Emma, that grouchyness in the AM is a sign that she is still to adjust to a later wakeup... she needs the sleep, but her body hasn't quite worked out that it needs to wake up later...in my mind that means she may in a week or so if you keep on keeping her up until at least 9am or later, start giving you some 5.30am & maybe even 6am wakeups

[mattandcindy]

Emma-When Abigail was young she had the "witching hour" as well. As she has gotten older, she has switched also. She is happy when she first gets up but gets grumpy throughout the morning, but she is a doll after her first nap. It probably does indicate that she needs more sleep in the morning but I have tried everything and nothing has helped her sleep in.
I wouldn't sweat it too much, sounds like you are making such great progress, I bet she will start slowly sleeping a little bit later. It may takes weeks but as she gets used to this new schedule I think it will improve. Abigail did go through a stage between 9-11 months when it seemed she only needed about 10-10.5 hrs of nighttime sleep (Or shall I say, that is all she would do). Now that she is 11.5 months she has slowly gone back to 11 and sometimes 12 if I am really, really lucky. I think the key is to just continue to be consistent with her schedule and see where it leads you. I think it is a mistake in a week or so to start changing it around on her again. But, just my humble opinion.
I am SO happy that things are improving. Who ever would have thought that we would be happy with 5:15am wake up!!!!!!!!!!!
I was just telling my dd today that I would love someday to be able to sleep into 10am. Being only 11 months she looked at me blankly, but a mommy can dream right?!!!!!