could my LO forgotten how to get back to sleep?

[Liam's Mama]

Hello, my LO is on the 4 hour Easy routine ( switched from the 3 hour EASY almost a month ago). LO used to take 1 1/2 - 2 hour naps and has all of a sudden (within this last week) all naps have gone to 35 - 45 Min's max. I'm not sure what happened 
Lo was having night wakings about 3 weeks ago however we have rectified that issue about a week ago, but maybe that has to do with it? We recently (a week ago Friday) took away the soother so I'm wondering if that may also have something to do with it? I am just confused  !!!! I have tried to shush & pat which usually works, but it hasn't been helping he just wakes crying and won't calm down. I have tried PU/PD but it does not work with LO he just doesn't understand why I pick him up and then put him back down (we have tried this several times BTW DP & I). I do not believe in letting him 'cry it out' so that is not an option. We have just started to try to let him settle himself which worked when he initially goes down but doesn't seem to when he wakes up after 35 Min's.
I am so frustrated, it seems that once we fix one sleep problem another arises! Please any suggestions or comments will be greatly appreciated!! His schedule is below - mind you we have (also within the last week) have gotten him to go to sleep at 8:00pm (before it was a fight to get him to sleep anytime before 9:00):
E: 7:00    A: 7:30   S: 9:00 (after 35 40 Min's he wakes and I just keep trying until next feed)
E: 11:00  A: 11:30  S: 1:00pm (same as above)
E: 3:00    A: 3:30   S: 5:00 (cat nap)
E: 6:00pm A: bath & massage (Ever 2nd Day)
S: 8:00pm (I top him up about 7:45pm)  story time & then bed. he wakes at about 3:30 - 4:00am for next feed.
Thanks for any help!

[Taylor's Mommy]

Hi there,

Let me first ask you a couple of questions so I can get a better picture:
1. has he been staying up for 2 hours of A time for the last month (since he was 3 months old)?  If so, now that he is 4 months old, how does he seem to act at the 2 hour mark when you go to put him down at 9am?
2. Has he taken up some other way to self soothe since you have taken the soother away?  If not, then the short naps may be a result of him learnign to fall asleep without it. 
3. Now that he doesn't have the soother, how is he going down to sleep?  Is it completely independent?  Can you leave the room and he will fall asleep on his own?

Lastly, if he wakes up after 40 minutes from nap #1, I suggest putting him down closer to 12-12:30.  By trying to stretch him out to his "routine" nap time of 1pm, he is becoming way overtired with over 3 hours of A time, causing potential problems for nap #2.

Hang in there...we will try and get this sorted out for you!   

[Liam's Mama]

Hi! Thanks for the help let me first answer your questions:

Hi there,

Let me first ask you a couple of questions so I can get a better picture:
1. has he been staying up for 2 hours of A time for the last month (since he was 3 months old)? If so, now that he is 4 months old, how does he seem to act at the 2 hour mark when you go to put him down at 9am?

He went from the 3 hour EASY to the 4 hour EASY starting from about 3 1/2 mths (we eased him into it, Without much effort). He was doing well on the plan (although we have just sorted out sudden night wakings - growth spurt turning into habit but is no longer an issue), I usually take him up to bed when he starts to get tired which is around 9:00am. When he is tired I can tell as he starts to rub his eyes, and just wants to be held not playing.

2. Has he taken up some other way to self soothe since you have taken the soother away? If not, then the short naps may be a result of him learning to fall asleep without it.

I am thinking that this could be the issue. We have given him a stuffy and his blankie in his bed (he seems to love to rub the blankie on his face before going to sleep.

3. Now that he doesn't have the soother, how is he going down to sleep? Is it completely independent? Can you leave the room and he will fall asleep on his own?
Lastly, if he wakes up after 40 minutes from nap #1, I suggest putting him down closer to 12-12:30. By trying to stretch him out to his "routine" nap time of 1pm, he is becoming way overtired with over 3 hours of A time, causing potential problems for nap #2.

)

We used to Shush and Pat LO but after some recent advise to see if he will go off on his own. this was a success as he goes off on his own (fusses a little then goes off on his own).
That is a great idea to change his second nap time, If the 40 min nap happens today I will try that!
Thanks for the advise!! gotta run my DP is off to work which means I take over baby patrol!

[Taylor's Mommy]

Hi There,

Just checking in to see how things are going.  have the naps improved at all?

[Liam's Mama]

Thanks for checking in! Nope no improvement at all. 
Liam is still waking after 30 - 45 Min's. each nap, I have tried to have him go to bed a little earlier (1/2 hour) to see if maybe he was just getting overstimulated, or I was catching his tired signs late but it didn't help   
He still will not go down after his first sleep cycle ends. I have tried to stay with him and gently place my hand on him to help the transition but this only wakes him up. I got him to go down for 10 Min's extra after 15 Min's of trying S & P yesterday. Aside from giving back his soother to see if that will help (which I really don't want to have to do) I am just out of ideas.
P.S. what is this 'jolt' that everyone describes the baby will have when going through transition in sleep cycles and while going off. I have stayed with LO while putting him down (longer than ten Min's after he has drifted off) and gone in to his room before his S.C. ends and he has never had a 'jolt'

[Taylor's Mommy]

I'm sorry to hear things have not improved yet.  Has it helped at all pushing the pm nap up a bit?
The jolt is when they are starting to go to sleep or transitioning from one sleep cycle to another and they "jolt" awake.  It usually happens at 5, 10 and 20 minute mark as they go into deep sleep.  Some lo's are bigger jolters than others, so with some you can see them actually startle awake and with others they seem to go right to sleep right away.  This sounds like the case with Liam.

[LŠuren]

My DS is roughly the same age as yours.

The only thing I can say is that EASY is a guideline, if my ds only wants a shorter nap and he wakes and is happy and smiling then I am not going to upset him by try to put him back to sleep.

If however he wakes after a short nap still grumpy and whiney then I most definitely put him back with sush/pat and don't even lift him out the cot.

There are also days when I have to wake him after 2 hours nap      The short naps don't happen as much now he seems to take 2 long naps a day and a catnap before bathtime.

The main thing is don't get worried about it, your not doing anything wrong and after reading many other post the same, it is just something that happens at this age - a long as your baby is healthy and eating well everything should be OK.


Also to just to add ..... are you leaving your LO time to try and resettle after waking froma a short nap or going to them?


see https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0