Please help me, he's started waking after 45mins!

[PoppetK]

Owen has always been a reasonably good daytime napper.  We've had to work at it but at 4 months, he was having 3 naps a day.  One at 8:30am for at least 1.5hrs, one at about 12:30pm for 1.5hrs - 2hrs and then perhaps another 50min-1hr at about 4:30pm.  I know the last nap is longer than the BW recommended 45mins, but he seems to really need  little recharge in the evening.  He then has bottle at 6:45pm, bath and in bed by 7:30pm.  He then usually went through until 7am, although the last 6 weeks or more we've been experiencing really disturbed nights with him waking as early as 3am and being very, very unsettled.

Anyway, we've just been going with the flow at night.  Not getting him up but just settling him and trying to get him to go back to sleep.  It's slowly got better and the last 3 nights has only woken at about 6:20am.  I simply pop his dummy back in and then he goes striaght back down until 7am.

Over the past 4 days he's started waking after just 45mins into his nap.  He has done this occasionally, perhaps when he was more tired than usual and I simply pop his dummy back in and off he went back to sleep.  BUT.... today he's been horrendous!  The morning nap was 45mins when my husband was unsucessful in getting him back to sleep so we got him up.  The afternoon nap I was determined was going to be longer so after the 45min wake up I stayed in his room with him to see what was happening.  Basically, after the first wake up and me giving him his dummy he's jolting really, really badly every few minutes and it's waking him again.... the dummy comes out and the whole cycle repeats itself.  He's swaddled tightly but still waking.  This afternoon, I did manage to extend the nap to 2hrs and got him back off again by placing my hand on his chest.... quite firmly so he knew I was there but not hurting him and after 15mins or so and LOTS of jolts he did go back off.  Although he was still disturbed and woke about another 4 times before the 2hrs was up.

Same story tonight with his evening nao and because of all this he's been soooooo grumpy and tired this evening it was very difficult.  At the moment, my husband is upstairs trying to settle him and I can hear him screaming because he's soo tired.

Can anyone please help me?    I read somewhere that after 45mins the baby goes into another cycle of sleep and can sometimes have trouble with the transition.  Is this whats happening?  Why the sudden very violent jolts every few minutes when he's trying to go back to sleep?  He'll be 20 weeks old next week.

Thanks for reading this far, I hope someone can help me and my little boy!

[Taylor's Mommy]

Hi there.  Congratulations on getting EASY to work so well for you this far along!  I'm sure this is a bump in the road and hopefully we can help you sort it out.

Anyhow, can you please post his routine for me including A times?
Regarding the transition from on sleep cycle to the next, after 45 minutes a baby comes out of one sleep cycle, and it sounds like your lo is having trouble getting into the next.  Some causes for this at his age could be 1. overtiredness or overstimulation before he went down for his nap.  2. not being able to fall asleep independently without the use of any props, so that when the prop is no longer there at the end of the first sleep cycle, they jolt awake.  Which makes me wonder if you think the paci has anything to do with this?...

...But before we jump to conclusions, please post his routine and we will go from there!
thanks

[PoppetK]

Hi, thanks for repling to me!

I'l start off by posting Owen's day on a good day when he gets his full naps!

7am - feed.
7:20am - Activity.  My husband does this (I usually am catching up on sleep) but he usually has Owen in his chair or activity ring whilst he has breakfast himself.
8:30am - morning nap.
10:00-10:15am - wake from morning nap.
11:00am - feed.
11:20am - Activity.  I have him here and I usually either hold him/play with him/sing to him or he sits in his chair with some toys and I talk/play/sing with him
12:45pm - roughly this time another nap, depends on time and length or morning nap.
2:30-2:45pm - wakes from nap.
3pm - feed.
3:20pm - 20-30min stroll in pushchair.
4:00pm - Activity, he's usually quite chilled out after his walk so I just sit him in his chair with his taggie blanket and he just watches me and my hubby.  I do talk to him but try to keep the A less excitable than the morning as we're beginning to wrap the day up.
4:30pm - roughly time for his last nap.
5:30pm - wake from last nap. After waking we usually just hold him and play quietly or sit him in his chair and play.
6:45pm - feed.
7:00pm - bath and bed.  On a good day is asleep in his cot by 7:30pm.
11pm - dreamfeed.

He is dummy dependent to get to sleep and I know thats my fault from when he was little.  I did try to get him to go for a nap about 2 weeks ago without it but it was absolutely awful.  He screamed solidly for over and hour and make himself sick so I gave it back to him.  I know I made him endure all that screaming and stress for nothing, and I did feel so, so  but I really didn't see any other option as he was so distressed.  As I said, he has sometimes woke at the 45min mark and simply gone back off once I've popped it back in, which I didn't mind as it was my fault he needed it, but somethings changed that.

It's interesting when you say overstimulation can cause this.  We've just got back from a few days at my in-laws (where this 45min waking started happening actually) and they are the kind of people who, once Owen begins to start getting grumpy with tiredness, decide that clapping their hands in his face, taking to him loudly, walking around with him, turning on more lights etc are good ideas to try to stop him from crying  .  I usually have to intervene and take Owen into a darker, quiet room to get him to calm down.  Not fair on Owen, but I've told them countless times but they still continue to do it.  Perhaps that could be the root and he's just taking a few days to adjust now back home?  When we're home and he starts to get grumpy I give him his dummy and a muslin (he likes to clutch and bury his face in it) and leave him do his thing in his chair until he's nice and drowsy, and then I'd take him up for a nap.

I've also read somewhere that 4-5mths is quite a big time developmentally for them.  Is it possible that he's just getting more aware of his surroundings and it's overwhelming him somewhat which is then making him overtired and overstimulated?  I've noticed that he definately has trouble feeding if there are other people in the room as he's so busy looking at whats going on he takes hardly any bottle!  Again.... cue my wonderful mother-in-law who constantly calls his name and claps her hands from the other side of the room when I'm trying to feed him 

I'm not quite sure that I've got enough of a windown procedure.  Once he's nice and drowsy in his chair I take him up to his dark nursery, swaddle him whilst talking to him gently, stroke his head for a bit and he drops off.  If he's particularly fussy I'll have to hold him for 5mins in his nursery so he's nice and calm before putting him down.  His eyes are closed once putting him down but he opens them again once I start to swaddle him so he does wake up and I'm not holding him to sleep.  If he's very fussy and crying downstairs, again I'll hold him and talk to him for 5 mins to get him calm before taking him up and getting him nice and drowsy in the nursery.  I know it's different a lot of the time, but it really does depend on how tired he is.  He only ever has the dummy when he sleeps so I think the minute I give it to him he knows is sleepy-time as his eyes usually immediately begin to droop.

Whew, thats a long post but I think I've covered everything!  Since this bad daytime napping he's began sleeping through the night again, so I guess every cloud has a silver lining 

Thanks so much for your help.  I'm quite keen not to accidently promote this waking by doing the wrong thing so it's good to get some advice!!

[PoppetK]

Me again!  I forgot to mention about the self-settling issue!

I've really been trying to promote this with him lately but it is very hit and miss.  There are occasions where he has but they are quite few and far between.  The main thing I think is perhaps as he's still swaddled he can't get to his hands to suck his fingers.

We tried a few naps last week (before this waking) without the swaddle but they weren't that great.  He would drop off without much more intervention from me but I'd find that his hands would wander all over his face and wake him fully and I wasn't able to get him to settle again.  Also, a few times when he was quite fussy those arms and legs were everywhere and stopping him from sleeping!

For the time being I've reswaddled him and will try again once he's a bit older!

On the dummy issue again, sometimes he wakes with his dreamfeed and my husband puts him down fully awake, without his dummy and he puts himself to sleep fine!  Go figure!  I wish he could do that in the daytime too!!!!!!

[PoppetK]

Okay, had a better day yesterday.  Managed to get him to take 2 really decent naps of about 1hr 50mins and 2hrs with about 50mins in the evening.  However, he was then awake from 4:40am until 6am whinging and fussing.  I then had to wake him at 7:30am and he's just now gone down for his morning nap.

I don't understand what's happening    Hr's been excellent, sleeping through the last 4 nights on the trot.  It seems like I either get good daytime sleep, or good nighttime sleep - can't have both.

Feeling a bit  today, I just don't know what to do with him.

[Taylor's Mommy]

HI There,

Sorry it's been a couple of days but we had an unexpected out of town trip come up (dh had to go away for business so Taylor and I tagged along .  Anyhow, I hope things are getting better, but if not, I can hopefully answer a few questions:

Regarding the paci weaning, if you think this is something you want to do, have a look in the Props forum.  I'm pretty sure there is an announcement at the top of the board for instructions on paci weaning.  Some choose to do it cold turkey, but if it is too much (and it sounds like it may be for your little guy), you can take a gradual approach where you slowly take it away over the course of a few days or even a few weeks.

Perhaps that could be the root and he's just taking a few days to adjust now back home?

Regarding the overstimulation, does he seem to have settled more back to normal at all since oyu have been home a few more days?

I've also read somewhere that 4-5mths is quite a big time developmentally for them.  Is it possible that he's just getting more aware of his surroundings and it's overwhelming him somewhat which is then making him overtired and overstimulated?

Yes, 4-5 months is a big time of change for them and I know that a lot of lo's nap problems start aroudn this time and tehn start to settle back down by about 6 months.  For us it was actually opposite...Taylor had nap problems from about 2-4 months of age and then when she turned 4 months they really improved.  I guess it's true that all babies are different. 
At 4-5 months they are also able to start staying awake longer too...perhaps you could try stretching his a.m. awake time to 2 hours instead of 1hour 45minutes?  How do you think he would handle that?  I think your afternoon awake time of 2.5 hours is plenty though.

I'm not quite sure that I've got enough of a windown procedure.  Once he's nice and drowsy in his chair I take him up to his dark nursery, swaddle him whilst talking to him gently, stroke his head for a bit and he drops off.  If he's particularly fussy I'll have to hold him for 5mins in his nursery so he's nice and calm before putting him down.  His eyes are closed once putting him down but he opens them again once I start to swaddle him so he does wake up and I'm not holding him to sleep.

I would also recommend starting to put him down more and more awake because it sounds like he is going through the first stages of sleep in your arms, so when he comes out of that sleep cycle, he is having trouble putting himself back to sleep.  Eventhough his eyes pop open when you set him down, the fact that they have already been closed tells me that he has already started to drift off to sleep.  Let me know if oyu need clarification on this.

sometimes he wakes with his dreamfeed and my husband puts him down fully awake, without his dummy and he puts himself to sleep fine!  Go figure!  I wish he could do that in the daytime too!!!!!!

The reason this is the case is because he is nice and relaxed after sleeping for a few hours already, and has a nice full tummy.  When going down for a nap he has to work extra hard at calming himself down because he has just played for a couple of hours and doesn't have a full tummy of warm milk.  Naps and night time sleep are also totally different parts of the brain, so he could have learned to settle on his own at night, but not during the day yet.

I think it is fine to continue to swaddle him.  Some lo's need to be swaddled until they're 8-9 months old!  I would recommend though that if you want him to find his fingers so he doesn't need the paci, you will have to at some point leave one or both arms out so he can practice.  have you heard of the aussie swaddle?

Let me know what other questions you have