12-week old still not sleeping - SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP !!!!!

[LisbonMom]

I posted a few days ago about my 12-week old sleep problems and only got one reply. Well things are even worse now.

She is waking EVERY HOUR at night. We've been handling nap issues as well (which are better now), but during the night she used to go six hours regularly, even 7 and 8 hour stretches and now, consistently, wakes every hour. She has a feed at 7:00, followed by a consistent bedtime routine, then wakes at 10:30, 1:30, and every hour after this. At 7:00 I get her up for the day. This, when she used to just wake for the 4:00 feed, then sleep till 8:00. She started waking at night almost 2 weeks ago, and every night just seems to get worse.
When she wakes I use patting on her back to get her asleep again. When this started I thought it was a growth spurt, so I fed her (she was waking every 3 hours then), but after a few days I saw it settling into a pattern and I stopped feeding her (also, she wouldn't eat a full meal). Since then it kept getting worse.

Some info that might help you: she doesn't use a paci (she sucks on her thumb) and we don't swaddle (I don't even know how to say it in my language ..., should I introduce this now?). She goes to sleep independently at naps and for the night, sucking away on her thumb, so why doesn't she do this during the night? Also, she is now waking up for the dreamfeed, which she didn't do before. Should I start it a little earlier, before she wakes up? Is it really worth giving it, if she doesn't wake for it ?
She is on a 3-hour EASY.

Dh is helping during the day, so I can sleep a couple of hours.

Any advice welcome. I'm completely desperate and really tired from the lack of sleep, plus running around with big sister, etc.
TIA,

Sara

[Lªuren]

hi Sara {{{{hugs}}}}

Firstly can you let me know;

What her weight is?
Is he bottle or breatfed? If bottle fed how many ounces does she take in a day?  Does she drain her bottles? Is she always hungry at her 3 hr feeds in the day?

Can you post your typical daily routine?.

I am trying to see if she is getting enough milk intake in the day, as it sounds like she is still hungry at night and waking for food??!

Thanks
Lauren x

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Sara

Sounds like you are having a rough time.  Big hugs.

You probably are experiencing a growth spurt at the moment - very common around 12 weeks.  I would suggest that you feed if necessary every 3 hours or so like you do during the day - and then work to increase those day time calories to reduce the need for night feedings.  If you are breastfeeding - your supply has to work to catch up during the day and those night time feeds will help this happen.  If you are bottle feeding you could try adding an extra oz per bottle to up the intake.

It is not too late to introduce the swaddle if you would like to try it.  There are instructions on these board about different ways to wrap your baby that you can try.  I used the swaddle on and off with my DS up until he was about 6 months - he went through phases of needing it to feel a little more secure at bedtimes - and other times he was fine. 

The other things to think about are - if your DD is having some developmental milestones (could she be ready to roll already??) then those can effect night sleep.  Those wakings are ones that you just have to ride out as best you can.

The only other suggestion I have is to take a really good look at how your lo falls asleep - it's great that she is falling asleep independently but if you are making her really drowsy before bed then that is still a sleep association that you have to deal with IF it leads to nightwakings.

HTH
Jo

[Katet]

What is her day routine like as maybe she is ready to move to 3.5hour Easy...that often helps fix night problems.

The other thing is if she is geting too much day sleep, she may not need the full night sleep, so isn't "tired enough" to move into a new sleep cycle.

[LisbonMom]

Her routine is (give or take half an hour):

7:00 - Wake for the day, feed
8:00 - Sleep

10:00 - Feed, take bath
11:30 - Sleep

13:00 - Feed
14:30 - Sleep

16:00 - Feed
17:30 - Sleep

19:00 - Feed, bedtime routine
20:00 - Sleep

10:30/11:00 - Dreamfeed

Like I said before we have been working on the 45 min. naps which she was taking, but now she can go 2 sleep cycles (with just a little bit of our help). This is her ideal schedule. Sometimes it will be off a bit (like today, when she woke in the morning at 9:00, and so did I !). Also, we've had it rough a few weeks ago, when I was working out how I could get her schedule to fit in with her sister's. To be honest I can't say when things went haywire from my lack of sleep, but I have this idea that when her naps went to 45 minutes all the time, that's when her night sleep went crazy too.

Ok, to answer other questions

What her weight is? At her last appointment 5,300 Kg - 11,7 Pounds
Is he bottle or breastfed? Breastfed. Both breasts at each feed.
Is she always hungry at her 3 hr feeds in the day? I think so, at least she eats well and when I'm getting ready she looks at the breast anxiously. If she's in Dh's arms she'll fuss until I get her.

I am trying to see if she is getting enough milk intake in the day, as it sounds like she is still hungry at night and waking for food??! At first I thought so too, so I would feed her at night, but she would wake an hour later anyway !!! So one night I stopped the night feedings and after calming her down at around 5am, I gave her another dreamfeed thinking she hadn't eaten in 7 hours, and to stop the wake-feed-sleep association. She still woke up an hour later. So I thought that it was definitely a habit, so I stopped all night feeds. This  was a few nights ago. Last night, at 5:00 I was just so tired and she was sooo hard to settle (I patted for over an hour and she wouldn't sleep), I tried feeding her. She had a full feed and slept until 9:00 this morning. I CANNOT understand this baby !!!

You probably are experiencing a growth spurt at the moment - very common around 12 weeks.  She had one at 11 weeks! Is she having another ?

The other things to think about are - if your DD is having some developmental milestones (could she be ready to roll already??) then those can effect night sleep. She did started sucking on her thumb very early, so I thought about this too, but I haven't seen anything yet. She is "talking" a LOT lately.

Take a really good look at how your lo falls asleep - it's great that she is falling asleep independently but if you are making her really drowsy before bed then that is still a sleep association that you have to deal with IF it leads to nightwakings. This is how it happens: when I see her fuss, rub her eyes or yawn I pick her up, take her to the room and turn on the music box. She usually starts to cry at this point, in my arms. I put her down in her cot, and as soon as she pops her finger in her mouth she stops crying, and off she goes. Sometimes she needs a little patting. If she was fussy to sleep she might jolt at the 20 min.mark, but again that's not the norm. Night time routine is different because we put on PJ's, and say goodnight to daddy and big sister. I have tried sitting with her to calm down before bed but she only cries more. I've found that letting her be in the cot earlier and letting her have her thumb gets less crying.
Could she have "cot phobia"? She has always cried before sleeping, but then would settle herself.

Maybe she is ready to move to 3.5hour Easy...that often helps fix night problems. How should I go about it? I don't think she can handle 2 hours awake time.

I've also thought that her night wakings could have different reasons each couple of nights (too tired one night, hungry the next ...) and I'm thinking she is into a pattern when there are a lot of different things going on, but the longest sleep stretch I've had in 2 weeks were the 4 hours I got last night so I'm very exhausted. I just need to understand what is happening with this baby and move on with a plan to get her sleeping at night.

Sara

[LisbonMom]

Here's an update:

Because she was showing she was hungry, I thought that maybe she was still in the growth spurt. Since I'm breastfeeding I decided to feed her every 2 hours to get my supply up, and attend to her hunger. Well, after 3 days of this, she is still taking 45 minute naps (her training is completely gone out the window), she is not waking every hour, but still waking 3/4 times at night.

I am so so so exhausted. I don't know what to do anymore, all I do is cry (and so does she...). I feel like I'm trying a different thing every day because I have NO CLUE as to how to handle this. I CANNOT understand what is happening, so I don't know what to do. I am completely desperate. Please, any clue will be helpful, anything.

Two things I forgot to add: I've ruled out cot phobia, because I found out she was crying because I would put her to sleep too late. When I put her to bed earlier she doesn't cry at all. What this means though is that I can't even get her up for more than an hour (instead of hour and a half), which takes me to 2.5 Hour EASY - We're going backwards !!!!! Or is this because of the 45 minute naps ??
Also, this morning, at her second am nap, after the first sleep cycle, she cried so much while I was trying to get her to sleep again I just gave up, got her up and fed her, and she took a Full Feed !!! How hungry can you get

Sara

[Katet]

I think it is probably the 3 month growth spurt if she has taken a big feed & you can't settle her another way, it can go on for a week in some bf babies, you really do just need to keep offering to build up your supply... my ds#2 went from sleeping 6-8 hours to waking every 2.5 for nearly a week, then it settled down, once it does you will often find they are ready to move out to 3.5/4hour Easy.

 I'm of the school of thought that if a bf baby won't settle in 5mins then offer a feed even if it has only been 2 hours since the last & to be honest I haven't really had too many problems with it, ds#2 will refuse if he doesn't want it & then I know it is another issue, but I always like to rule out thirst/hunger first... still offer water all the time if ds#1 wakes too

[newmum2Ellie]

Oh you poor thing - you must be going tout of your mind!

I had to post a reply because I was having exactly the same problem a couple of weeks ago and I am delighted to tell you that my lo is now sleeping right through the night so please believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel!

My lo also went through a growth spurt at 11wks and that really threw me as she went from sleeping 5hrs at night to waking every 3hrs like clockwork then every 2hrs which nearly killed me.

She was so desperately hungry all the time I started giving her formula milk for hungrier babies at night time only as people advised me that this may make her sleep better (although it broke my heart to do it I desperately needed some sleep!) This didn't work and, after a week or so we were down to her waking every two hours and she wasn't necessarily hungry (by then she should really have finished her growth spurt)

The health visitor suggested putting her moses basket on her daddy's side of the bed so she couldn't smell my milk and dh offered to feed her during the night.

This was our WORST night ever which ended up with us BOTH being awake and fretting all night. DD was waking EVERY HOUR! Dh was well meaning but he kept shoving her dummy in every time she made a noise which was just making her worse (by then I'd practically weaned her off it for daytime naps & was resisting giving it to her at night because she'd started waking when it fell out).

By 4.40am I was so exhaused and fed up that I took her out of daddy's arms (he used to tell me not to put her in bed with me but he cracked at 4.30am and went to sleep holding her!)

I figured that she napped beautifully during the day in her cot thanks to BW so why not give it a go at night? I know they tell you to keep them in your room until 6months but my mum kept saying she'd probably sleep better in her own room so I thought I'd try it as I was at the end of my tether.

That night I was prepared for another hellish night and was determined to do pu/pd every time she woke (Her nursery is right down a long L-shaped hall from our room so I was dreading it!) I couldn't believe it when she slept for 4hrs solid, woke for a feed and went straight back down!

In fact the first week of her being in her own room she woke at 1am and 5am like clockwork. Because we were bottle feeding I was able to assure myself that she had had plenty to eat before bedtime (6.30-7pm) so after a couple of nights I stopped feeding her.

What I'm sure also made a HUGE difference is that I found I had to be strong and make a distinction between crying and whinging (there's a very fine line between the two with my dd!). I wouldn't go in to her when she whinged - only if she was really crying out. After doing pu/pd once and leaving her to whinge for 15mins (at which point I was about to go in as she had begun to really cry) she dropped off to sleep on her own. Then the most amazing thing happened - she actually slept ALL the way through the night. Incredible given that only five days earlier she had been waking up every HOUR!

Since then we've only had one bad night (not sure why) when I had to stay in her room with her to get her back off to sleep but she's now slept through NINE nights in a row.

I'm sure this is down to the fact that we sleep trained her so well in her cot during the day with BW's techniques. I think we must have been disturbing each other when she was in our room and all the poor little darling wanted was a bit of piece and quiet and to be left alone to grumble.

Now I'm confident enough to turn the monitor volume right down so that she only disturbs us if she cries and I'm enjoying getting used to a full night's sleep again.

My only problem now is that for the last few days she's been really grumpy during the day and I have no idea why. Still, this is much more preferable and easier to cope with than night waking issues so I'm not complaining!

I hope that you find something useful in all of that as I know how difficult it can be. (no doubt my next post will be asking why she's suddenly stopped sleeping through but I'm determined to enjoy it while it lasts!)

GOOD LUCK & let us know how you get on.

Paula xx (Eleanor's mummy)

[sleepy mum]

Hi, am new to this site but wanted to let you know I'm in exactly the same position.  My DD is 14 weeks and up until 10 days ago was sleeping from 7.15pm to 5, 6 sometimes 7am - Bliss! Can't uderstand why she has now started waking every hour or so through the night and am completely exhausted.  Have read BW advice from cover to cover and have my DD on 4 hour EASY, she naps fairly well during day anywhere from 1 hour to 1.5 hours and is an angel baby for the majority of the time.  She goes down for naps easily and is the same at night but once she wakes she just can't seem to settle herself back down and cries out.  Have tried PU/PD and swaddling and upping her feeds dutring the day but still she wakes - aargh! Am going to post this for some advice but just wanted you to know you're not alone!  Good luck xxx

[LisbonMom]

Hey Paula, thanks a million for your post, it gave me a lot of courage to hang in there. It does look like this growth spurt is lasting for ages. I just hope that when it's over no bad habits have settled in. I'm continuing to feed her every two hours, she's eating so much! Last night I had to go out, so my mom babysat. I had managed to express a little milk, but feeding every 2 hours didn't allow for much. Anyway, I had that reserve for her, and she slept 4 straight hours and then woke for it. By the time she had finished it I was home and finished the feed. She woke up 2 hours later, and then every hour after that. I am so tired !!!!! But I do see light at the end of the tunnel. Kate, BTW, thanks for that tip, you're right, she settles quickly when she's not hungry, but not at all when she wants to eat!
I ended up feeding every 2 hours ... As for moving her to her own room, she's going to have to share her sister's room, and we haven't prepared for that yet. I'm a little scared to do it so early, but I do put her cot in there during the day, especially on weeks like this one when dh is on the night shift and spends the day sleeping. That way they don't disturb each other.
So, I'm hanging on now that I know what's going on.
I'm paying more attention to her cues, she's also not having as long A time as she used to, and still napping 45 minutes most of the time, so it's been a little crazy around here.

Thanks for all the help,

Sara

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Sara

I finally got on here to check on you - looks like you have recieved some really good advice.  I would just mirror what the others have said and suggest that you give the feeds to build your supply up.  Sounds like your DD had a bit of growing to do 

Hope things stay improving for you

Let me know if you need any more help

Cheers
Jo