4 Month Old Night Wakings-What do I do??

[Ciaran's mommy]

My 4 month old little boy Ciaran (spirited) has never been a great sleeper. From the beginning he slept for long stretches but never consistently and naptimes were a nightmare. We finally put him on E.A.S.Y about a month and a half ago he was able to go at least 5 hours a night with no feed, we've just put him on a 4 hour schedule which is working beautifully for the daytime. He is actually eating during the day now and he is sleeping about 2 hours (he used to sleep no longer then 45 min) with a little help from us at least one nap a day (the other nap is a major struggle, but we've only just started this about 4 days ago and I suspect it will get better).

The problem we are having now is that he will not sleep longer then an hour a night without waking up and calling us. Before I started him on 4 hour E.A.S.Y I thought it might just be a growth spurt so I was feeding him every 2 hours or so. He wouldn't eat so we put him on the 4 hour schedule and the first couple of nights he slept almost all the way through, waking maybe at 4 (which I fed him) and then at 7. Then all of a sudden the last few days he's been waking up every 2 hours or more, and we've been patting him back to sleep, which only takes a couple of min, but then he's up again an hour or so later. Last night was the worst and he was up almost all of the night. I don't want to feed him, because I know he's not hungry. He's not really crying, just fussing, but if you leave him for about 20 min he's all out screaming.....but a couple of pats and he's back to quiet....though not sleeping......

Our routine is normally like this:

7-7:30 up and feed
7:45 activity
9-11 nap
11:15 feed
11:30 activity
1-3 nap (this has been the harder one the past couple of days)
3:15 feed
3:30 activity (we've been leaving the house at this time and running some errands)
5-5:30ish nap (this has been in his car seat the past few days as we've been out)
5:45 feed
6 activity
7nightime wind down (bath, song, etc.)
7:15 feed (not to sleep...he's awake when we put him down)
7:30 sleep
10 dream feed

And then he's up every hour or so. So my questions are:

Am I messing with his nightime sleep by trying to get him to sleep for longer then 45 min during the day?
Should I be feeding him at night?
Should I start him on solids?
Is this just a phase because he's starting to get to the roll over/sit up time and I should just wait it out?


Thank you so much in advance, any advice would be welcome!!

Jasmine-Ciaran's mommy

[Ciaran's mommy]

Just to give you guys all the info:

He's breastfed and he's 16 pounds/26 inches (which the doctor said was quite big)

Thanks again!

Jasmine

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Jasmine

First of all congratulations on all your hard work up to this point.  Sounds like you are doing a great job.

Does Ciaran use a paci for his sleeps?  How is he falling asleep at the beginning of the night?  I see you are not feeding to sleep but can you explain what you do?

Am I messing with his nightime sleep by trying to get him to sleep for longer then 45 min during the day?

No, I don't think this is messing with his nighttime sleep.  I do think that any new routine takes some time to adjust to though.

Should I be feeding him at night?

It is very very common for a 4 month old to need feeding during the night.  If I were you I would be feeding during the night.

Should I start him on solids?

It is a myth that intoducing solids will make your DC sleep through the night.  In fact, baby's younger than 6 months are not ready for solids because their digestive system is not mature enough.  Introducing solids at this stage would likely cause more sleep disturbances because of belly aches or other similar discomforts.  I do not think that introducing solids would help your night wakings at all.

Is this just a phase because he's starting to get to the roll over/sit up time and I should just wait it out?

Over the course of the next 12 months your will experience sleep disturbances causes by youir DC reaching milestones - and starting to roll over and sit up is a big milestone.  Those types of wakings are the ones that yes, you just have to ride out.  You could try swaddling your DS though - often with their newfound physical abilities they need that additional comfort of feeling snug and secure. 

HTH and let me know about those few questions
Cheers
Jo

[Ciaran's mommy]

Jo,

Thanks so much for replying! Of course for one reason or another last night he slept the entire night  waking only once when my husband made a loud noise at 6am getting some water, and was put back down in a couple of seconds......

At night we normally, about a half hour before we put him down, have a bath and a feed in a quiet room with a white noise machine going, then a quick kiss and it's off to sleep. But last night we had a function to go to and we had a babysitter. She said that he wouldn't take that last feed and was a little harder to get down but then he was fine.......lately he doesn't seem interested in that feed and maybe it's too close to bedtime and disturbing his settling down....associating feeding with sleep Either way whatever happened last night worked!! Thank goodness because another night like the night before would have killed us!

Hopefully whatever it was has passed...milestone/getting over new routine....whatever.....hopefully it takes!

Thanks again for replying, it's good to know about the solid food and the milestones sleep issues. I'll let you know how tonight goes.....cross your fingers for me! 

P.S We've just moved from Brisbane to Calgary in Canada....how's the weather over there?

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Jasmine

That's great about last night - hopefully those night wakings were a blip and things are now back to "normal" 

Let us know how things go.

It's so HUMID here at the moment - we really need some rain and relief from the nasty humidity!  When did you move?  What's the weather like there - are you FREEZING  ??

 

[tmartinez2]

Hi Jasmine, I am new to the list and I read your post and it sounded exactly like my 4 month old MM. He was sleeping  at least 5- 6 hours a night and then all of a sudden about 2 weeks ago he started getting up every 2-3 hours and then the past couple of nights he has literally been up every hour or sooner. We just started him on the 4 hour schedule E.A.S.Y. and that is helping with his daytimes. He is a spirited baby and is breastfed. We are so exhausted and not sure what happened or what to do. He does take a pacifier at times at night. And like your baby the shush pat helps in go down in a few minutes but not longer after he is up again! Not sure what is going on - will this pass on its own or is it something we are unknowingly doing.

any advice would be welcome!

Thanks.

Theresa

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Theresa,

How is your LO falling asleep at the beginning of the night?  Are you still feeding at night?  If your DS is falling asleep when you are using pat/shh and the paci but is then waking again shortly after it is likely that he is hungry.  Perhaps your DS is have a growth spurt - if that is the case you will need to keep up the feedings to help you increase your supply

HTH
Jo

[tmartinez2]

Hi Jo, thanks for the info.  How often might he need to get up for feeds at night? Should I feed everytime he wakes?
I guess it is hard to tell if he is getting enough at the feeds as sometimes he falls asleep at the breast - I guess I should really try to keep him awake long enough for a good feed. I know its hard to estimate but how long is generally a good feed for a 4 month old. He seems to be quick eater but I am  not sure if he is a snacker then??
Sorry so many questions we would just love to get this figured out and get some sleep!

Thanks so much.

Theresa

[Ciaran's mommy]

Hey Theresa & Jo,

Well, the one night of excellent sleeping is just that....one night. He's been up every hour or so for the past 2 nights and I am about out of my mind tired and ready to just shut the door and walk away .

He's also doing this new thing where he wakes up at 10 just before I go in to feed him. I am concered that if i feed him then that he'll start to wake up and expect to be fed all the time, so I'm pushing back his feeds to 11. But he's insane crying right now and I just don't know what to do.

Should I just start feeding him again? Because it seems like this is just what we were dealing with last week and then we stopped feeding him during the night and he had that one fabulous night of sleep and now we're back to the beginning.

ARRGHHHH!!!!

HELP HELP HELP!

Jasmine

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Jasmine

Your DS is still very young and I would expect that he might still need one or two feeds during the night.  Are you able to settle him at all?  If not then I imagine that he is hungry, and needs to be fed to get through for longer sleep.

If he is waking for the DF, you could try bringing the DF forward so that he is not yet awake for it - like 15 mins before you expect him to wake up. 

Also, it is very natural for lo's to have regressions with things like sleeping - it does not mean all your hard work has been in vain, just that you need to keep up the hard work and BE CONSISTENT - please don't confuse your LO by responding some times and not others.  He is crying because he NEEDS you and this is only a short time, I know it is hard and oh so tiring but if you respond promptly and lovingly he will come through this stage. 

Do you think that there might be some developmental wakings happening as well (like is Ciaran just rolling?).  Things like that can also cause night wakings - you could try swaddling to help him feel snug and secure.

Don't stop now Jasmine, you are doing great.  Let us know how you are getting on.
Jo

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Theresa,

Sounds like your LO is also hungry - if he is only settling for a short time then waking again it is likely to be hunger. 

Because you were getting a 5 hour stretch at night I would probably try for a long stretch like that somewhere in the evening (you will probably only get one), and then feed at the other wakings.  Personally I would try to settle for a short while but if he is agitated I would probably feed him - my thinking is you don't want him to learn that he has to wake up and cry hard before he will get fed.

I think you should focus on getting him to fall asleep independently at the beginning of the night and then be flexible re the feeds from there.  As I said to Jasmine, 4 months is still very little and more than likely your LO's still need those feeds during the night.

HTH and good luck

[tmartinez2]

Thanks Jasmine and Jo -  last night I tried to get him down without a pacifier etc and he did have his longer stretch from about 7 to 11. I am having the same thing where he is waking before I can get the DF in. I guess I will have to bump the DF up a bit so he is still asleep. is it really important that he be asleep for this and that I control the time?

Last night we also tried feeding when he awoke and this seemed to help him go a bit longer like 2 hours rather than waking ever 1 hour or less and he did seem to be hungry. I am also tryin to increase his feeds during the day as maybe he is not getting enough and then is a making up for it at night.

Also do you count one or two feeds as well at the DF or including it.

Do you think the feeds at night will decrease on their own? or do I need to make an effort to decrease them at some point?

Thanks so much.

Theresa

[Ciaran's mommy]

Theresa & Jo,
Jo: Thanks so much for the advice and the support, you were right we just needed to keep plodding on. I think I was confusing my 4 month old with a 2 year old and wondering what his problem was.  My mom assures me this is just babies and to keep it up and now he's sleeping for 1 1/2-2 hours at both naps (afternoon one needs a bit of help, but it's better then before) and is getting better at night. He's stopped the every hour or two wakings when I started feeding him again ( I think the milestone thing had a lot to do with it as well...must have gotten over that phase) and is feeding only one or two times a night plus the dreamfeed. So thanks again! P.S We froze our butts off here last week....-37 with windchill....sigh I miss Bris!

Theresa: I found that as soon as I stopped obsessing over the whole thing it worked a lot better. I've been trying to catch him with the dreamfeeds but if I don't I just feed him and put him down. It seems to be working this way....for now at least! 
What I try to do at night is get my husband to go in and try to pat/shush him back to sleep for about 5-10 min and if he's not settling I'll feed him then. Most of the time if he's eaten in the last few hours then it's just a couple of minutes of patting. The one thing that I can pass on about these last couple of weeks (and it sucks because I know how hard it is, and how tired you are......) but the less you worry about it, the less problem it will be. Hang in there! It does get better!

Thanks guys I'll keep you posted.

[kharma]

Hello Theresa,
 
So glad to see other Mommys up at all times of the night! No offense but sometimes I feel so alone when all my friends have babies that sleep all night.
I am a mother of three-9yrs, 21 months, and my youngest 5 months. Beautiful adorable kids however I have had problems with my toddlers sleep habits until recently and vowed to not repeat the same mistakes with my youngest. I do not feed her to sleep, she has just learned to fall asleep on her own but that still doesn't help her fall back asleep at the end of a sleep cycle. She wakes three to four times a night, I pat her back and wait for the next time, after six to seven hours I have been giving in and feeding her. The same goes for her naps, I cannot get her to sleep longer than 45 mins.
Very frustrating and I am always questioning my parenting- I feel as though this is my first baby because I should know what to do and not to do. Is teething waking her, over stimulated during the day from the other kids? not feeding properly during the day as its always loud and disrupting? any advice I would very much appreciate.

Nicole

[1sttime]

Hi all, I also have a 4 month old that suddenly started having night wake issues. Mine started with a few late outings in a row that messed up bedtime. I thought I'd pass along what we did to try to fix it. I did not feed the first time he woke up, just patted him to sleep, but then would feed if he woke up again. I also tried to be very low key at bedtime. We'd always done a bath, but I'd started not being as relaxing and being more playful. I went back to being very relaxed and quiet. I think that helped the most. I read in one of Tracy's books once that when things seem to regress to go back to what worked the 1st time. That has really helped us. My lo has always needed some help in the sleep department, so when I finally stopped being frustrated and went back to doing the things that helped before things gradually improved. Last night he went from 7pm to 4am without a peep! Hopefully he's back on track. Not sure if any of this helps.

[Ciaran's mommy]

Nicole,
I had the exact same problem with my lo, he wouldn't for the life of me sleep longer then 45 min almost to the min every nap, which meant that he was only able to be awake for an hour or so before he needed another nap. This was fine until he started waking up every hour at night as well. 

I read Tracy's book and found that I needed to putt him on a 4 hour schedule, and try to lenthen his naps by doing pu/pd and patting and shushing. the first day went better then expected with him waking at 45 min and after about half an hour of patting he went back down for 10 min, then after about 5 min he went back down for another 45. The afternoon nap was much harder but after about a week I could get him back to sleep for the morning nap in a few min and he would sleep for about 10 min at a time with the afternoon nap. Then just this week he started to sleep for 1 1/2-2 hours for his morning naps without waking up and after about 15 min with his afternoon naps he's back asleep for 45 or so. He did regress quite badly after about  6-7 days (see the second post I put up) and I was so frustrated because I thought we had fixed the problem and I was ready to give up. Thanks to Jo and my mom I stuck with it and he's back on track.

All of this has affected his nightime schedule and it was an absolute mess for those 2 weeks but now we're a bit better on track with him waking at least 2 times after his dreamfeed. If he can't be patted back to sleep in a few min I feed him. It seems to be working better then before, but I think, as Jo said, they need to be fed 1-2 times a night at this age, and I found that when I stopped feeding him at night he started waking more often.

As for the daytime feeding I find my lo has all of the sudden become very distracted at the slightest noise, so I'm starting to bring him into a room where nobody is to feed him, just to help with that. And I also try to give him about 20 min before sleep with no t.v or noise and just a quiet song or even just humming (he seems to really like it when i hum...... ) to calm him before going into his room and his crib. I realize that I only have one kid and therefore this is much easier to do then when you have 3! But hopefully something about this can help you. I know just how you feel it is very confusing and hard to tell what the right thing to do is, but the best advice I can give is whatever you do, be consistent and try not to worry so much (easier said then done, believe me I know!).

I hope this helps and you get some sleep!! Also, check out the nap board, they may have more tips.......

Jasmine

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Nicole

I second everything Jasmine said - spot on!!  Good luck

Jo

[Mom2katiebug]

No advice for anyone as we have the same issue.  In fact, I was so upset and completely exhausted the other day, I made a desperate post.  I didn't care about how unhappy DD got or whatever trust issues might manifest later, I just wanted her to sleep.  So, no one is alone in this - although I can totally relate to feeling that way!

My DD is 4MO and the advice I got was to limit her daytime naps.  I came up with a schedule that gives her 2 naps lasting 1.5 hours and a 45 minute catnap (although reality is probably going to be 45min nap, then 2 hr nap, then 45 min catnap).  We're trying to get to this, but yesterday she had 3.5hr of naps and slept much better.  Woke at 1am for a feed, 3am for paci, 4am for paci, 5am for a feed, 5:45 for paci and 6:30 for paci.  Yes, believe it or not, that is an improvement.  Also, someone advised using Wake-To-Sleep if your LO is waking at the same time every night. And, finally, sometimes the paci can be a curse.  We gave it up about a month ago and lasted about a week before caving in and giving it back for a trip that we took.  DD slept like a champ - woke twice to eat and right back to sleep.  We've never slept so good.  Boy, those were the days!

Good luck to all the sleepless moms (and dads) and if you find anything that works, PLEASE POST!!!

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Casey

Sounds to me like the problem for Katie might be the paci.  It will be a while before she can find and replace the paci herself.  Some mums and dads decide that weaning the paci just isn't worth it - they are prepared to get up and replace the paci as needed during the night.  Other parents decide that they aren't willing to do that and so go through paci weaning.  If you do decide that you want to wean, you could look at the gradual weaning thread at the top of this board and start using those principles (pulling the paci out before DD falls asleep) or look at the props board for other assistance.

Good luck to you
Jo

[Mom2katiebug]

Hi Jo!  Yeah, I think the paci is actually a curse in our house.  But, she's starting daycare in about a week (will have a week with mom visits before we "go live") and with that big of a transition, I just can't bring myself to take it away.  It was so traumatic when we did it in January - she set her crying record of 1hr 48min.  It's around 7MO when they can replace it themselves, right?  I figure if we're at 4MO, we're over half way there.  Another 3 should go by quickly - especially when you throw work into the mix.  But, that's just how I feel today.  Maybe if the daycare transition goes easily and they don't mind a bit of extra work with naps while she kicks the habit, maybe we'll give it another go. 

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Casey

I completely understand where you are coming from with not wanting to make any big changes/take away DDs comfort item before starting day care.

Sorry - I have no idea when they start to be able to reinsert the paci - my DS gave his up at 5 months of his own volition.

Good luck with the daycare and good luck with the night wakings - hope it all goes ok
Cheers
Jo