4am feeding--habit or need?

[Mel55]

My son is almost 4 months old.  He's on a pretty good feeding schedule, although he's not a big eater.  He eats 4-6 oz every 3-4 hours, usually it's closer to the 4oz mark but occasionally will suprise me and drink 6oz.  He's happy and content. 

My problem is the 4am feed.  He gets 8pm feed and then a dream feed at 11pm.  Like clockwork he wakes up at 4am every night--this has basically been the routine since birth.  He is starving (or I perceive it as starving) as he fusses for a few minutes and then breaks into an all out scream until he gets the bottle.  He chugs the bottle but will normally only drink about 3-4oz before falling back to sleep.  I've tried waking him by changing his diaper and then trying the bottle again and he refuses to drink any more (will gag on the nipple, etc.).  He then sleeps until 8 or 9am.

I'm frustrated with the 4am feeding and determining whether it is a real hunger need or just habit.  I've been trying to get him started on rice cereal however he has absolutely no interest in a spoon or anything put into his mouth (has a huge gag reflex) so tanking him up on cereal isn't an option right now.

If I do sssh/pat--how long do I let him cry it out before I figure out if it's a real hunger need or just a game? I've tried doing the soother thing a few times but he gets severely angry and screams at the top of his lungs.  At that point, he gets what he wants (my bad, I know) but I am convinced he's hungry.  Does ssh/pat require that you don't pick him up at all? 

I want to break the 4am feeding but only if he doesn't need it and I'm really having a tough time desciphering whether it's real or not.  My mother thinks he's "still a baby" and that this is okay but I'm just not convinced.

[Kimberly®]

at his age its more then likly real hunger if he's eating 3-4 oz. If you try pat/shush and he doesn't settle after 5-10 minutes then he's hungry. The best I could recomend is to try and get an extra feeding into him during the day, cereal is not the answer as it makes it so your LO drinks less milk and would maybe even start waking up more often. Introducing cereals doesn't actually make them sleep longer, thats just a myth. He's not getting the calories he needs during the day, sounds like he's not ready yet. Keep trying. It will come. I know its hard, but it sounds like your doing a pretty good job. A lot of 4 month olds aren't ready to sleep through yet.

[Noelle]

Hello!  

It does seem like habit since it's the same time everynight...but...since he isn't a big eater during the day, it's a good possibility it may still be hunger.  I would have to vote more for habit if he was only drinking a couple of ounces before drifting off to sleep.  Does he go to sleep independently?  Also, when he fusses do you go in right away or wait for the all out cry?

Another thing you could try is cutting out the dreamfeed and see what happens.  If he still wakes at 4 and not earlier then you know it's habit.  Plus, one night dh was too tired to do the DF and I said let's just skip it, the worst being she wakes earlier.  She slept through that night and has ever since.  It was almost if the DF was "reminding" her to be hungry..??

Also, have you tried going to a faster flow during the day?  That may increase his ounces.

HTH  

[Mel55]

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't aware that the cereal doesn't help--good to know!

He is a good sleeper and can go to sleep on his own no problem.  I usually swaddle him and give him his soother, and in a few minutes he'll be sleeping and then spit out his soother.  This is the case during the day for naps and at bedtime and after the 4am feeding.  I can't complain that way.

I've tried skipping the 11pm dreamfeed and he's gone until 4am again.  The odd time I've skipped it he's woken up at 2am.  I forgot to mention that occasionally he has slept 8 hours through the night (which I loved!) so it's frustrating!  My gut tells me that his 4am waking is hunger but I'm just wanting to be sure I'm not creating a bad habit by mistake.  My daughter slept 12 hours a night at 3 months and has ever since (with the exception of teething times and growth spurts) so this is something new for me and I'm not sure how to deal with it.  He is SO different then his big sister.

I'm using Avent bottles and he's on a stage 3 flow and seems to handle it okay.  A little comes out of the corner of his mouth occasionally so I'm thinking a stage 4 might make him choke.  I haven't tried tho--should I?  At his 8pm feeding tonight it was a struggle to get him to take 4oz.  I'll DF him at 11 and my guess is he'll drink another 4oz and then we'll see him at 4am I'm sure.

I read in the new BW book tonight about setting the clock an hour earlier from the waking time and re-swaddling, etc. and I might try that in the next few days.  I usually wait until he's in a full out cry before going in as I've heard him fuss sometimes and he'll just go back to sleep.  Ugh.

Do you know how I can get him to take more than 4oz at a feeding consistently? 

[Noelle]

The only ways I know how to get him to take more is to change nipple size...though to me it sounds like you are on the right one, or to lengthen the time between feeds.  You had mentioned he feeds every 3-4 hrs, does he drink more when it's the 4 hr mark?

It sounds to me like he's a baby with a smaller tummy/east less and that he is waking out of hunger.  I would continue to do what you are doing and then maybe try solids again in a few weeks. 

 

[Mel55]

If he goes 4 hours, he usually will drink 5-6oz rather than the 4.  Should I feed him every 4 hours instead? 

[Noelle]

Aha!! Yes, that is what I would do.     Though you may find that some days he may still be hungry earlier and that's ok too. 

[Kimberly®]

I agree that its a good thing to start your LO on a 4 hour routine now

He should be drinking 5 8oz bottles or be 6 months old before, whichever is first, before you start the solids.

Have you by chance tried to give him the soother at his 4am wake up?
I'd suggest you try that.
if that doesn't work then what you'll want to do is keep feeding him, but dilute the formula slowly each night untill its water and he should loose interest.
However, if when you do the diluting he seems crankier or more hungry go back to full formula.
As I said though a lot of 4 month olds still need at least one feed, he's actually not doing bad at all.
As hard as it is, try not to compare him to his big sister, that may cause you to become confused or even frustrated.

[Mel55]

I'll give it a go with the 4 hour routine, and hopefully that will make a difference.  Last night he woke up at 3am.  I heard him kindof yelling as opposed to crying so I waited it out a bit.  About 5 minutes later I went in and gave him his soother, he had un-swaddled himself so I swaddled him back up and rolled him on his side and patted his back and he kept dozing off but wouldn't fall asleep completely.  He was chomping on his soother which usually tells me he's hungry so I left him to go heat up his bottle and at that point he started his screaming cry.  He drank 3oz and then went to sleep.  He woke up at 8am and ate 4oz and then at 10am was screaming so I gave him a bottle and he drank 6oz.  He must be going through some type of a growth spurt right now.

I know I shouldn't compare, but she was so easy and I just expected him to be a carbon copy of her.  He's pretty much the opposite in so many ways.  I'm figuring him out, it just seems to take me a little longer that's all.

Thanks for all the help.

[Kimberly®]

Believe me I understand. I have been really lucky with my DD she's been so good, sleeping 12 hours at 12 weeks, eating well, ajusting pretty well, learning so fast. I fear if I have a fussy baby next I wont know what to do.
But you are learning thats all that matters things always work out in the end

[Mel55]

It's really interesting how different two babies can be that come from the same parents!  It's challenging with the second but he's overall a really good baby too, he's just differen then her--what did I expect?!  But it's coming along, one day at a time.     Thanks again!

[AmyT]

I just wanted to post a reply as I was having the exact same problem. I was feeding to sleep and then feeeding back to sleep at 4am every morning  :-[and my DD was taking a full bottle but then wouldnt eat her breakfast til 11am. I knew it was habit as she woke same time. I made decision to stop feeding her at 4am and instead used a pacifier. My DD is not much of a crier so I did not need to pick her up, just go in, put hand on her chest, pop paci in her mouth and say ssh until she resettled. First night I did this 4 times from 4 til 6.30am.

Second night I did it twice. Third night I did it once, but she was still waking at 4am.

Night before last I dropped her dream feed as she was pressing her lips together so tightly in resistnce to it it seemed unfair to try and force it on her. When she did take it on previosu nights she would only take 3oz. She slept until 6.30am. I did same again last night and she slept until 6.30am again today.

It definitely works so be persistant. If your LO cries alot then do PU/PD or shh/pat depending on what works best for them. But the less contact the better I found. I dont speak to her, look her in the eye or pick her up, just put paci in mouth and put hand on her chest until she stopped squirming, then just sat and waited til she dropped off.

Hope Im not speaking too soon but it appears to have worked, as in space of a week she now goes til 6.30am, I occasioanlyl hear her wake between 3-4.30am but after a few minutes she goes back off to sleep. My persistance has taught her that there little point in waking up now as she gets nothing from me for it and fingers crossed she will keep it up.

[Kimberly®]

Amy thats great to hear I'm glade you were able to solve your 4am wakings. I hope things continue to go smooth for you.

[Mel55]

I'm glad things have worked for you and thanks for sharing what worked.

For the last few days and nights I"ve been really pushing the ssh/pat with him to get him settled and to sleep.  Thankfully DH is on board and has been helping with the consistency of it.  It seems to work wonders with DS and calms him right away.  I've been trying with naps to put him in his crib and doing sssh/pat until he's asleep.  He seems to really like sleeping on his side as he almost instantly closes his eyes when I put him on his side.

Last night DS woke up at 1:30a.m.  I couldn't feed him as I know he can go longer than that at night.  He wasn't in an outright cry, but kindof his "yell" cry so I went in, didn't pick him up.  Instead I did ssh/pat and put his paci back in his mouth and within about 5 minutes he went to sleep.  About 15 minutes later I heard him again, this time he was a little louder so I went back in and did the same thing, but swaddled him up as well.  He slept until 6am!!

I'm hoping to try the same thing tonight if he wakes again, it's interesting that he didn't wake up at 4am (although I did expecting him to wake up!).  So we'll see how things go in the next few days. 

BTW he doesen't seem to like his dream feed very much either.  Last night he last at 9pm.  I find giving him the dream feed at 10 or 11 doesn't do anything for him, he'll only drink about 2-3oz.  He's not a big eater anyway. 

I've also got him up to eating 4-5oz consistently now; however, we're still only going 3.5 hrs between feeds.  I haven't quite got him to 4 hours yet unless he has a really good nap.