Does EASY really work with newborns?

[Lauren's Mommy]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post.  My lo is 4 weeks old and the love of my life.  I've read BW and wanted to try it.  This is our third day and I'm starting to wonder if I should do it this young.  We moved her from our bed to her crib and starting the pat/shh with her.  It takes about half an hour to an hour to get her to sleep and then she'll sleep for maybe 15-30 minutes during the morning and she takes a 2 hr nap in the afternoon.  In the afternoon she just passes out after her feeding and I put her in her crib.  I don't even need the pat/shh.  At night, I pat/shh for half an hour and 10 mins later she wakes up because she dropped her pacifier. Then 10 minutes later the same thing.  When she does fall asleep for good, she wakes every 2 or 2 1/2 hours during the night (she's breastfed).  I'm basically wondering if it's worth it to spend so much of my day pat/shh when she's too young to figure it out anyhow.  If I have to do this until she's 3 months old, then why not just start the pu/pd at 3 months when she can actually learn to put herself to sleep?  It just seems like I've spent the last three days in her room leaning over her crib.  She doesn't really have a certain prop to go to sleep.  I let her have her pacifier while falling alseep, but once she's really out she drops it.  We mostly were just letting her fall asleep whenever and where ever she wanted to.  It was causing some problems because sometimes she wouldn't be able to fall asleep and she'd be cranky all day and only nap in small bursts.  I'm really confused and wondering what to do.  Should I just do whatever I need to get her to sleep and then move her to her crib?  Or keep dreading that yawn and droopy look because it means I have to pat/shh for up to an hour again only to have her wake up a few minutes later?

I would love your help.  Thanks so much!

Tina

[teezee]

i didn't start lo on easy until after 2 months ... more like three but anyway - when i did she was much happier. i think that if u started a routine so your lo would know what to expect she would definately thrive on that!  just remember to always read your lo and watch for signs (i know it is hard to do in the beginning) but u will definately catch on!

[estherofi20]

hi, i know what you're going through 'cause i went through the same thing.
By any chance do you swaddle her? This used to help a lot,it may seem they don't like it because they move their arms a lot, but remember that the LO's at that age don't controll yet their arms, it can help them get tranquilized. i did EASY from the day i brought Paul from the hospital, at first i didn't set a schedule per se, what i tried was to keep with the order of things and never left him eat to sleep, rock him to sleep and if he got asleep while feeding, i would change his diaper after, so he was awake a little after that, i didn't wake him from his naps until he was like 2 MO, and it did take me 45 to 1 hour of pat-shushing, so all i can tell you is that it DOES work, my LO doesn't need it anymore, and i can put him wide awake in his crib and he'll drift off to dreamland all by himself (i'm so proud of him).
Good luck and let me know how it goes!!!

[HeatherC]

Do you have a winddown routine?  I realize that 4 weeks is quite young, and it seems so hard, but you'll get there.  Congrats on sticking it through the past 3 days.  It will pay off.  Anyway, a good winddown to help her transition from wakefulness to getting ready to sleep should really help. 

[Deb_in_oz]

Hi - congrats on your new baby

a few points and questions for you

1. how longis your lo awake for in each cycle? this counts from when they wake up inlcuding feed until you next place them in bed. at 4 weeks this will be very short still and if your lo is overtired or overstimulated that could be the problem with settling taking so long

2. what is the sleep environment like - darkened room, sound machine or white noise CD, swaddling, same place as does nighttime sleep or different location, are you using any props, etc

3. if shh/pat and consistent routine in used during 1st 3 mo you can hopefully avoide ever needing PU/PD. the aim is to teach lo to sleep in each EASY cycle, not need to be fed to sleep (if they learn to go to sleep woithout props/food then when they go through transitions in sleeps cycles or wake in the night they don't need those things in order to get back to sleep). at 4 weeks you are mostly doing the core of EASY - keeping the order of events E/A/S/Y; teaching independent sleep; getting to know your lo temperment/lots of observation time; avoiding snacking/encouraging full feeds by keeping feeds at about 3hrs apart; and establishing your routine elements (ie what your windown is, setting the environemtn consistently, maybe using a bedtime phrase; set up an evenign ritual like bath/massage/feed/bed)

i HTH and want to encourage you that 3 days spent over a crib is still early and if it takes an average of 2-3 weeks (and often longer) to work on independent sleep it pays off in the long run when you are not in their doing PU/PD 100 times trying to teach your 4 mo old how to get back to sleep. at this stage definitely try to ensure lo is not overtired when you are putting her down as that prevention is a lifesaver - better a little too early than a little too late.

[Lauren's Mommy]

Thanks for all of your replies.  I'll try to answer your questions -

Her awake time is usually 20-25 mins for feeding and another 20-30 mins of activity which consists of swing, laying on her play mat staring at the toys hanging overhead, and walking around with mommy.  When I see her yawn once or twice I pick her up and take her to her room which has the blinds drawn and a small fan for noise.  I sit down in the rocking chair with her and give her a pacifier.  I rock her until I see her eyes droop twice.  Then I lay her down and pat/shh until she stops sqirming and has had her eyes closed for several minutes.  She doesn't cry when I lay her down, she just squirms around and if she drops her pacifier she'll start to whine and arch her back until I give it back.  I used to swaddle her, but she wakes up and fights it until she gets out which takes a long time and she gets really mad.  Her fighting the swaddle was keeping her awake, so I quit. 

I have had some benefit from it so far.  She was only snacking and wanting to eat every hour.  With EASY I've gotten her to go two hours and sometimes 2 1/2 between feedings.  I don't let her eat to sleep anymore except during the night.  I'm not gonna wake her up after eating just to have to put her to sleep again in the middle of the night.  Since I've started giving her the pacifier to help her fall asleep for her naps, she cries for it if she drops it before she completely falls asleep.  So after I leave her room, she usually calls me back in about 10-15 mins to replace it.  This is a little annoying at night when I just get back into bed, I have to get up and go back to her room just to put her pacifier back in her mouth.  That part sure would be easier if she was still in bed with us.

Another thing is that she's so young that we still have frequent visitors to see her.  With the new routine I worry about people holding her while she sleeps.  But if I don't let them hold her, there is only a 20 minute block of time every couple of hours that other people can hold her.  If I announce that rule, I'm sure to have the enitre family in an uproar.  They usually visit in the evenings when she takes her long nap and sleeps no matter what.  Last night her great grandmother held her for an hour after she ate and she slept the whole time.  What do I do about stuff like that?  Or if I want to go someplace, we'll go right after she eats so we have as much time as possible before her next feeding.  She usually falls asleep in the car seat.  So I end up writing that she had activity and sleep during the same time period because we're out but she falls asleep.  But she didn't nurse to sleep.

I appreciate all of you taking time to help me.  Thanks a bunch.

[HeatherC]

Tina, I want to congratulate you on doing such a wonderful job.  It is a great success that you have been able to overcome the snacking issue.  I think you are doing superbly with your efforts with pat/shh.  I have PM'd a sleep mod for more info about this method so that I can best help you.  I feel that you are doing it correctly, but never having done it myself I've sought more help.  However, if Deb checks this thread again she might have some more tips. 
You are correct in not having A time during the night.  Baby is just supposed to feed and go back to sleep.  It is not an issue during the night b/c hopefully they are learning independent sleep during the day.  But, like Deb said, just keep a very watchful eye on A time during the day so that she does not become overstimulated.  Some toys can be overstimulating even if it appears she is just staring at them.
You can check posts on the props board for help with the paci situation.  10 mins is about the time a lo falls into a deep sleep, and that's why the paci is falling out.  It's when her mouth is going limp. 
As for visitors, I suggest doing what is best for your family.  You are putting so much effort into your precious child and her best interests, that if you feel that visitors are making things more difficult you should limit them.  You need to be concerned with your dd and yourself, and everyone should understand.  I'm not sure if there is correlation between sleep training and a baby being held alot during the early weeks.  Many people suggest you can't spoil them when they're that young, but I don't know.  As Tracy said, "start as you mean to go on."  If you want her to sleep in her crib, start it now rather than trying to break a habit later.  Going out is something else for you to use your best judgement.  A few naps in her carseat here and there is going to be a normal part of your life.  But if she's well adjusted at home and is learning independent sleep otherwise, I say you'd be fine.  It's only natural for most babies to be lured to sleep in a moving car or stroller.
Keep up the good work.  We'll be in touch.  And remember, this is a learing-get-to-know-each-other time.   

[HeatherC]

Tina, this is a reply I got from Jaime.  She is a general sleep mod, and she gave some info about pat/shh, as well as your other concerns.  HTH

* this little, swaddling is a lifesaver.  in my experience, the ones who fight it the hardest need it the most.  if you feel that the technique you're using is not working and she can escape too easily, you might want to explore using the Aussie swaddle.  here's a link:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=1439.0

* pat/shh is meant to be used if the baby is crying and needs help going to sleep.  if you can just lay her down and she doesn't cry, leave her and she may just drift off.  if she begins to cry, that's when you do it.  it can take a long time at first, but the effort is soooo worth it when she learns to put herself to sleep.  how long it takes for them to be able to self soothe depends on the baby.  my dd took only a couple weeks, and it was well before 3 months.  ds... took longer.

* whether or not you use a paci is up to you.  i fear that by her waking around the 10 minute mark, it's on its way to becoming a prop.  saying that, though... there are some babies with a very strong sucking reflex and they just need to do it.  you will need to make that call.  if you think it may be the former, here's a link to help you use it during your winddown, but to help avoid having to plug her back up all the time:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=2361.0

* it is hard when everybody wants to hold the new baby.  ultimately, you will need to decide what you are comfortable with, and go from there.  you can always phrase it along the lines of "she is just better tempered if..." or playing the "overprotective mommy" card.  they may think you're nuts but then you don't have to deal with a screaming, overtired baby.  as far as sleeping in the c!@!@at during dinner out... i wouldn't sweat it.  seriously.  that catnap is the first one to go, and doing this will not affect all your other sleep training.  i will say though, that it's better to have the rest of your naps at home in the crib (or whatever you use). 

* finally, here's a link to a sleep interview with tracy.  she includes lots more details about pat/shh and pu/pd (though 4 weeks is far too little for that!).  very long, but extremely helpful:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=451.0

[Lauren's Mommy]

Thanks so much ladies!  That info is great.  I didn't realize that pat/shh was only for crying.  I was doing it til she was completely out.  I swaddled her for her last nap.  She fought it like crazy, but she slept pretty good.  We also put on our heartbeat sounds cd for her.  I'll keep working on it.  What am I working towards?  In a few weeks will she stop needing help falling asleep?  I thought only 3 months and up could put themselves to sleep. 

I really appreciate your help.  You guys are wonderful.

[HeatherC]

Tina, yes, you want her to be able to fall asleep on her own.  This will come in very handy during times of transition during her sleep cycles.  If she falls asleep independently to begin with, she should be able to stay asleep when she rouses from a state of deep sleep into light sleep and back again.  I have never heard that about only 3 mos and older being able to settle themselves.  Better to start now, I think, rather than work on it once patterns are more firmly set later (like I did  ).

[Deb_in_oz]

hi

i only have a second as i have snuck on here (supposed to be getting thiongs ready for dd2 first bday party which is in 3 hrs)

great advice above - definitely just put her down and leave the room if no crying. with dd1 (angeltextbook) i left her to it from day 1 and she only needed shh/pat for overtiredness or during a few days when she started rolling onto tummy and occassional sleep at friend's house. the rest of thetime from birth she self settled as long as we did not miss her sleep window. sometimes she went to sleep in 5 min and other times as long as 30 min (staring at her basinette) but my mother's best tip to me was if she is not crying leave her be - she is learning all the time, no need to intervene unnecesarily.

i also suggest sticking with the swaddle - make sure it is tight

A time looks at the high end for a 4 week old so just keep an eye on that. the stimulation is an even bigger factor than time spent awake. as far as the people holding her goes THAT is the biggest stimulation i know of for newborns - all that passing around, in your face cooing etc can be too much. with my 2 girls i set a rule form day 1 that no more than 2 passes in any A time - meaning 2 guests could cuddle or say hi and then it was back to mom or dad so we could keep a close eye on her for when she was ready for sleeo. these were overseas visitors as well and even though it meant limiting how often/long they got to be with the girls they had to do it oon our terms or no go. that was just my gut instinct, not BW per se. up to you how you want to handle everything but just keep telling yourself thsat you are her mother and in charge so you make the decisions - no one is going to hate you becasue they only got to watch her on the floor instead of holding/rocking/cooing etc. so if you want to limit it and fear of reprisals is what holds you back i suggest you just decide what you want and pick your battles (if this is too hard a battole with your family then maybe suggest they can hold her bu keep it very low key etc instead of "playing" etc)

good luck you are doing great