Endless evening waking, please help...thanks

[Beam79]

Hi, my ds is 20 weeks, we have been on EASY for about 3 months...We are trying to transisiton to 4 hour EASY as ds wasn't wating well at 3 hour...however it is taking a while as he doesn't seem able to go the distance...yet. We are also grappling with the 45 min nap menace and I have been spending hours (REALLY my whole day) trying to extend naps by shush-patting and holding his limbs when he goes thro a sleep cycle.
Our days looks like this: He is on formula and is a wee spirited!

7am wake up and E (5-6 oz)
8.20 Nap until about 10.30 (the only nap that he takes wihtout shush-patting!)
11 E (always a struggle to get him to have more than 3/4 oz)
12.15/12.30 Nap (try to extend until 1.30/2 ALWAYS a big fight)
2.15/2.30 (am trying to get to 3 and have been for an age!) Eats about 5-6 oz
Between 3-3.30pm depending on when he woke from his earlier nap I put him down for a nap until 4.30/5. Hvae to extend this nap too and he is often fitfull for the second sleep cycle.
5pm Eat
6pm bath and bedtime ritual
6.30pm Eat (usually astruggle as it tired and perhaps not hungry cos too close to 5 pm feed). Some days is he woke early say 4.30 from earlier nap I might try to put him down for a catnap between 5.30 and 6pm and that makes his feed before bedtime more of a success.
I put him down for the night swaddled and drowsy but awake....and then he wakes after 45 mins (on the dot) and then on and off until the DF at 10.30pm.......
Last night he cried out at 7.45/8.20/8.45/9.10/9.55. He doesn't always wake up but he cries out and squirms and if I don't get to him on time he wakes up fully and takes ages to settle down. If I get to him quickly he will settle again with shush-pat.


Sorry this is so long...Please can anyone offer any advise, I am at my wits end with an evening full of anxiety waiting for him to start and nealry breaking a leg trying to get upstairs before he really loses it!!!! Thank you kind people. x

[Katet]

Wakign lots early in the evening is a sign of overtiredness, as he is able to do one nap longer than 45mins, we know he can, so what I would do is what I did (due to the need for a routine to fit around a toddler) so you don't feel like you are always etending naps is to do some EASEASASE, so that he gets as much sleep as he needs & isn't overtired, it may not be ideal, but say when he wakes from a 45min nap, take him for a walk in the stroller, even if he doesn't sleep it is relaxing down time & that worked well for us.

At 20 weeks I would make sure you try to let him have 2 hours of A time max & should be having 3 naps or could have 2 big naps & 2 catnaps is fine too & I think would be the best for your lo, so he is less tired at bed time... incidently until 6mo, my ds#2 would only last 1.5 hours from his last catnap until bedtime.

[Beam79]

Thanks, I think thats probably the problem overtiredness too. But with this transitioning from 3 to 4 hour easy the naps have all gone a bit wrong! Last night was horrendous, was awake from 10pm until 2am on and off, it was a nightmare. I am going to stay hyome today (its snowing anyway) and really try to get him having some good naps.....thanks for the advice. Anything else anyone can suggest would be most helpful x

[LŠuren]

Beam 79    promise you it will get better in a few weeks , your doing the right thing, we went through this period of unrest as well. I ended up following my DS for a few days and staying in the house and we adapted the EASY routine from there.

Have you seen Tracy's guide on transitioning from 3 to 4hr EASY?
Good luck

[Beam79]

Thank you for encouragemen, some days I feel like I may go insane with it all-I am reading and re-reading Tracys advce on transitioning from 3-4 hr easy but am finding it hard going...ds can't seem to go 4 hours in the fternoon and yet in the am he is hardly hungry after 4 hours....At the moment he is having a bottle at 7am, 11am (a struggle!), 2.30pm, 5pm and then 7pm....but naps are all over the place and the last catnap of the day is a fight! But if we don't have that then he is overtired by bedtime and then wkaes up endlessly. Last night I put him to bed early at 6.45 after his bottle and hoped that by an earlier bedtime I had sorted it, well it was the WORST night and I am still in my PJ's now (and it is 6pm!!!!) .
Thanks for advice x

[LŠuren]

hiya
I seem to remember going to 4 bottles at this stage 7,  11.30 or 12, 4ish then last bottle, as Calum was not always hungry after 4 hrs either.

Where in the UK are you from?

[Beam79]

thanks thats good to know, I am desparately trying to get o the "goal" of 7,11,3,7, and the DF (which he has between 10 and 11) but we seem to be stuck and it falls apart in the early evening. Today this is how its gone:
7.15 wake up and 6oz
8.30-10.30 slept (this nap seems to be okay touch wood)
11am fed but was a struggle!!!
12.30-1.45 slept but had to help him thro' sleep cycle
2.30pm 6 oz
slept 3.30-4.15 couldn't make him extend!!!!
4.45 small bottle, just 4 oz
tried to put him down for a wee catnap at 5.45 and its been a real fight, I know he is tired as is rubbing eyes and fussing but.....he is sleeping now, but was a draaaaama!

Any ideas??? Thanks Callums mum.
I live in Epsom....London ish way, how about you??

[LŠuren]

Sounds like he is not hungry at 11am.
His first A time is quite short, can your DS stay awake until more 9am? Calum was able to stay awake a full 2 hours at 20 weeks (he is now 23 weeks), he even goes to 3hrs sometimes.

The catnap at night with us is give or take as well since last week, he will only have it if he woke up from his last nap early or in the car. Otherwise he is way overtired when he goes to bed at 8pm.

I am from Scotland, near Edinburgh.

[Beam79]

I agree I keep thinking his first awake time is very short-but I am scared to legnthen it as that is the only nap he goes down for without a fight and I go back to bed and nap too and I will be so upset if I mess that up! Perhpas I could start by just keeping him up 5 mins a day more and see how it goes....
Am dreading bedtime this evening now and feel bad that I feel like this, just hoping it's a phase and we'll get through it. Whtas your EASY routine for Calum like? Jospeh born 5th Oct so a wee bit younger than your Lo but would be good to compare if you have time to post.

Is it snowing in bonny scotland? its been snowing down here today x

[LŠuren]

Sorry, been away feeding him, out routine is abit in the air just now, will post it when he goes down.

Not snowing here, but us certainly cold enough!!

[LŠuren]

Hi
Firdt of all before I forget, do you know there is a Spirited baby forum and a 'mums of Sept/Oct 05 babies' forum?

Our routine is a bit over the place at the moment, I said before that Calum went to 4 bottles when he went from 3 to 4hr EASY, well the start of this week he started really fussing with is 2nd and 3rd bottles. It was taking me an hour to get 8oz in him. After posting elsewhere on the site, someone suggested I go to just 3 bottles, bearing in mind he gets some solids as well.

Over the past few day this is an rough outline of our day:
Wake 0715
E 0730 8or9oz  (inc. poo change)
A 0815
S 0915 he is out in cot 5-10mins before hand if he shows tired signs
E 1100 Pot, Carrot and Brocolli - 1 icecube each & 1oz
A 1115
S 1320  30mins (we had a visitor and Calum is noisy - think the doorbell woke him)
A 1340
E 1430 6oz
A 1500
S 1600
E 1700 petite filous & 2oz
A 1715
E 1900
A bath
E1940 12oz between last split feed
S 2000 put in cot awake, sleeping by 2015

Prior to that when giving 4 hr feeds he was like this:
7am - wake
7:30am - 8oz (usually takes between 30 - 60mins to feed, with a 10 min rest in between)


11:30am - bottle - 5-6oz  (used to take 7-8oz up until a few days ago)
13.30pm - solids - veggies, 2 or 3 ice cubes - varies daily - it's not his main food so if he misses it or gets it later I don't worry.


15:30pm - bottle - 5-6oz (used to take 7-8oz up until a few days ago)


19.45pm - bottle - 10oz (drained)
no dream feed - never has and has slept through the night past week

Again he was awake between 2 - 3 hours from end of last sleep to his next one.

Hope this make sense x

[Beam79]

Than you for posting your easy Calums mum-it is useful to see wat other people are doing as we are all up in the air at the moment! As i am writing this Joseph is asleep but had been awake for 3 and a half hours-he would NOT sleep.....I am certainly worn out even if he isn't! I see you offer a split bottle before bath and bed...how does that work? Joseph will never eat more than 7oz though and thats rare!

Anyway I have taken up enough of your time, thanks so much for all your tips. Last night he cried out every 45 mins (or less) from 7.30 to DF at 10.30 but he self-settled a few times so thats positive I hope! x

[LŠuren]

The split feed I introduced when he was very young, and then I stopped it at 4 months. I have found lately he was falling asleep after 7 or 8 oz and then not settling becasue he was still hingry.  I decided to reintroduce it and he now takes another 5 - 7 oz after his bath (his bath gives him a 2nd wind).

I can't remember if I read about in the TBW book or Gona Ford Contented baby?