Habitual night wakings - how can I get past this?

[Colin Macs Mom]

My ds is spirited and also has reflux, so sleep has been a real challenge since day 1. Long story short, things are finally under control and we have made some good progress. But, he still wakes about 3x night almost always at the same times, and I truly think it's purely habitual. He doesn't have a night feeding anymore, but I know he's not hungry (that waking is unmistakable  ). PU/PD doesn't work, it only riles him up more and he thinks that he's getting up for the day. Our version of shh/pat (more like shh/hold) doesn't seem to be working anymore - he wakes again about ten minutes later.

So, how can we get him to stop waking at these times? He sleeps independently and is capable of going back to sleep on his own - he does it during other times of the night. Any suggestions would be great.

Typical day goes like this, although it can vary a bit -

8:00 wake
8:30 bottle
9:30 solids
10 or 10:30 nap
12 or 12:30 wake then bottle
2 or 2:30 nap
4 or 4:30 wake then bottle
Sometimes a cat nap of 30 - 45 min in between here but mostly he refuses
7:30 - 8 bedtime with bottle first

[Colin Macs Mom]

So 50 people have looked at this and no one has answered. Should I take that to mean that this is a lost cause? 

[Kimberly®]

Not a lost cause just needed time to figure it all out

Firstly have you introduced a lovie yet? this may be what our LO needs. Also he may need more calories during the daytime. I've rewriten a routine that you could try to acomplish that. My LO is also spirited and has reflux so I understand your frustration.

with your day starting at 8am you'll want to start by giving him his first bottle at 8am, then solids at about 9am, then his regular activity time till nap time. When he wakes up at 12-12:30 you'll give him solids, then an hour later another bottle. At 4 when he wakes stick with a bottle, then at about 5:30 or so another meal of solids, then at 6 start his bedtime routine, then final bottle at 6:45 and then bed by 7, your LO may be getting overtire into the evenings and that will make him wake more.
This will give him 4 bottles during the day and 3 meals and should give your LO all the calories e needs for his daily intake, making him sleep better and effectivly starting the weaning process, remember to start with smaller amounts and work slowly to larger servings. Given about a month he'll probably drop to 3 bottles and 3 meals.
When you do your solids and your LO if into all the foods start by giving oats and fruit mixed together in he morning, a plain vegatable at lunch, and then rice mixed with a vegatable at night.
My neighbor who has a 3 year old an a 8 month old helped me with that. It may work for your LO too He's old enough now that he can have 3 meals a day if your are ready for it.
If you only have him on cerial then give him that at each meal but I'd suggest you try rice and oats as babies, like adults, get tired of the same old thing

HTH

[Colin Macs Mom]

That's what's funny, sometimes he has 4 bottles no problem and other days he will just scream his head off as soon as the 4th goes in his mouth. And he gets at least 2 meals of solids a day, I forgot to put the second one in my original message.    The last couple nights have been good, with only one wake (well, one when we actually had to go in) which is totally manageable. I guess  I'm just scared that it won't last since the vast majority of his life has been a night waking nightmare - as you already know Karita!

[Kimberly®]

Believe me I understand.
Kayla has a habbit of screaming with the last bottle of the day (her third right at bedtime) Its gotten to the point where half the time I have to lay her in her crib so she'll eat it. Personally I'm hoping THAT doesn't become a prop :-p so far so good though so as long as she's healthy and happy I guess it can't hurt.
I do suggest you add that third meal and fight for that 4th bottle so he isn't taking it at night.
When he cries with 4th bottle stop and let him play, try again in 10-15 minutes, keep doing that untill he takes it, eventually he will, he may just be more interested in playing at that time. Now is the time your going to want to encourage him to drop that last night feed, he's on solids now he shouldn't need it. Let me know if you need more help I don't mind helping you out at all

[Colin Macs Mom]

I'm glad to know that someone else has that screaming with last feeding problem. The other night DH resorted to feeding him on the changing table, propping up one end of the pad with one hand, just to get him to take even 6 oz. It was rather comical.   

He's been on solids since 4.5 months, so he eats lots of stuff and is used to it - and loves it even. Well, most of the time.    Part of my problem I think is that I really want him to be on 3 meals of solids a day by now, but since I work full time I don't have a lot of control over what actually happens except on the weekends. DH watches him Mon - Wed and I'm lucky if he manages to get one solids in before I get home. He doesn't seem to understand that the solids does not replace a bottle, it's in addition to... so he's convinced that if we give him solids he won't eat again for like 6 hours.      I have gone over this with him so many times, but it's not sinking in. My mom has ds the other two days, and she usually does fine with giving him solids. I suppose it also doesn't help that ds doesn't eat well (solids anyway) for dh, but he does great for me. That discourages dh I think.

So that's my ramble... I'll talk more with dh about the solids and see if I can make some progress there. It's frustrating to know how you want things to be and then not have any control over that actually happening.

[Kimberly®]

I understand that too. My DP is the same way. Sometimes on his days off he'll let me sleep in, when I get up I ask if he fed her and half the time he hasn't fed her the solids, it throws the rest of the day off. I think he's scared of her  he keeps saying he think I do better, same with diapers or even changing her cloths, he wont do it unless I am there. He's good at it he just doesn't know it.
I would suggest you sit him down and talk to him, if you have to resort to the "if you don't feed him both bottle and solids then YOU get to get up and feed him at night" You'd be surprised how fast they change there tune when sleeps treatend 

You've made a lot of good progress since I first saw you post here. Good work and congrats on the 6 month old. Can you believe how fast they're growing. I looked at Kayla this morning and I couldn't believe how fast she's grown and changed.

[teezee]

well i have a refluxer who has been under control for quite some time now, but i too had the habitual night waking and my accidental parenting b/c i was feeling horrible for her discomfort (and i knew bm helped her cope with her reflux by soothing) so i felt it was the least i could do to feed her when she woke and wouldn't go back down easily.  at about 6 months she was very healthy, and i thought able to handle going through the night w/o the worry of her being in pain.  i also begged and pleaded for an answer for the bad habits we had created and finally found a combo that worked for us.  i had still done the df which if i would have thought of it sooner would have taken it away sooner as i think this was apart of her wakings.  she wasn't eating well during the day (i assumed it was b/c of her reflux) because she was getting all of her calories at night.  some nights would be good for feeding others it would be just the morning feed she would hardly take anything, or the night feed right before bed.  here is a link that helped tremendously as slowly i cut down on the amount of time i fed her and eventually she just stopped waking for the feedings as i'm sure a 1-2 min feeding wasn't really worth it to her anymore.    she does still wake sometimes at 4:30 to play but i do believe that is a whole other problem and has to do with developmental things (although i HAVE been wrong before  ) but if she does wake up at 6am i do feed her half a feeding as she has gone 10hrs without feeding and that is AMAZING enough for us at this point.  i then give her the 'other half' of her feeding at 8am when she wakes for the morning.  this is what worked for us and would love to see it help someone else - although every child is different - keep seeking advice and trying different methods til u find something that works for the two of you!  good luck.

[teezee]

...just another thought too - u may want to try to get your lo to three meals a day - but make sure (even if lo still seems hungry) that u don't give too many solids as that also was a big reason she wouldn't eat as much during the day along with the night feedings. it was like she waited all day to eat solids and saved the night for nursing. i found solids really complicated to incorporate with nursing as far as finding the perfect balance for both...takes time and like everything else trial and error.

[teezee]

ooopppssss!  here's the link 

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0

[teezee]

just go very slowly starting them and upping the quantity. that's the best advice i can give - i had a little piggy that loved/loves her solids and would fill herself totally on them during the day but it doesn't have enough calories to sustain her through the night so she would wake and feed then...i would also recommend that u give the bottle/breast before solids.  i have done and still do this and it seems to work well.  if u haven't started solids yets - all the better - you don't have any correcting to do and can start slowly, wish i had more of htis knowledge beforehand..u will do fine i am sure!

[teezee]

wow -  i am absentminded today   anyway - i would start lo on solids 1 meal a day - first in the morning for a week or two then do morning and lunch for a week or two and then add the third meal if everything is going well and lo likes solids (some don't take to solids for a couple months or longer.).  always introduce new foods in the morning so you can see throughout the day if there are any reactions. the first few foods i would do 5-7 days to be precautious (especially if there are history of allergies in the family).  after about 7 months with no reactions with my dd i will now do a new food/a day (usually never introduce them that close together but it has happened) but never two in the same day, that way i know what she may have a reaction to, what may give her gas etc.  alot of different foods get different babies gassy, so just pay attention to your lo and what u have fed that day if there is anything that isn't agreeing with your ds and maybe wait a month or two before introducing it again. that's all i can think of right now (of course until i hit the post button  ) don't be worried though - it is all trial and error...asking questions and gettng knowledge beforehand is the best thing u can do!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Thanks a lot everyone. I've been working on adding in the third solid meal the last few days, and I'm not sure yet if it's helping but we'll see. The first day he was like what's this, I don't want it now.... but he's been eating more and more of that third meal. The last few days he's done pretty well at night, but last night he was REALLY noisy. I don't know if he was actually awake or just talking in his sleep so to speak.    We'll see how tonight goes.... And also the last few days that last bottle has been just fine, go figure!

And thanks a lot Karita, we've been working really hard on sleeping for several months now and I do feel like things are a lot better. I think part of my problem is just that I'm impatient. I have to admit that for his age and personality he's probably doing really well. I just want him to sleep 12 hours with no wakings. I guess that's probably not very realistic yet and I realize that, but I'd still like to try and encourge it.