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Offline bellmaine

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At a lost
« on: February 27, 2006, 11:27:51 am »
Hello,

It is now 5:30am and I have no I idea what to do with my 5 month old.  I can not get her to sleep at night and I have tried everything.  I just fed her at 2:00am and she got back up at 4:30am and I said I am not giving her another bottle she also had a dreamfeed.  My husband will not read Tracy's sleep Q & A and it is all up to me to take care of this problem.  Does anyone have any words of wisdom.  She is upstairs screaming her head off do I feed her I am at a complete lost.  Please someone help
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James John  Born:  April 21,  2002
Helena Bellmaine Born:  October 5,  2005

Offline Kimberly®

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2006, 14:47:56 pm »
I'd recomend feeding her for the time being. whats your daily routine maybe we can help you eliminat the problem in the future.
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Kimberly

Offline bellmaine

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2006, 15:18:33 pm »
Hello Again,

You have helped me in the past and I thanked you again for helping me now. I did end up feeding her and when she woke up at 8:30am she seems to have a start of a cold coming on.  My routine is for right now trying for her to get longer naps than 30-45 minutes and trying to feed her every 4 hours and taking a full feeding.  I think she might be using the bottle as a prop now to go to sleep.  I always try to wake her before I put her in her crib but my husband doesn't.  it is very hard for me to follow an exact schedule because I have a 3 1/2 year old in pre-school and other activities.  I am doing my best to try and keep her on a routine as much as possible but I seem to be failing.
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James John  Born:  April 21,  2002
Helena Bellmaine Born:  October 5,  2005

Offline SleeplessSam

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2006, 15:47:16 pm »
Sounds like the bottle has become a prop.  Have you tried changing your schedule to feed, light activiity and then sleep?  That worked for my dd like a charm at about the same age (we had the same prop issue).  That way your husband will be forced to put her to bed awake.  We do feed, bath, story, bed at bedtime.  It's also important that you do the same at nap time...try to feed her right when she gets up.  HTH!
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Offline bellmaine

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2006, 17:35:40 pm »
I tried to feed her when she gets up from the night and she is never hungry.  it is 11:00am and I tried to feed her at 8:30am when she got up and she did not want any.  Do you know how to get her to eat during the day?
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James John  Born:  April 21,  2002
Helena Bellmaine Born:  October 5,  2005

Offline Kimberly®

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2006, 17:51:47 pm »
When you get her up for the day keep trying every 10-15 minutes untill she takes the bottle.
:) Eventually she'll take it.
Whats your full routine? Maybe that'll give me a better idea. What times (about) does she eat, nap do activity, what the bedtime routine? whats the nap routine? and what time is bedtime? and whats your ideal start of day 7am or 8am?
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Kimberly

Offline Kimberly®

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2006, 17:52:40 pm »
oh and whats the routine and bedtime you already have in place for your older child?
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Kimberly

Offline bellmaine

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2006, 18:16:08 pm »
Well my older child really has no routine.  That is why I am detemined to have my daughter on one.  My ideal time to start the day is 7:00am.  The nap time usually comes about 2 hours after wake up time.  Then she wakes up 30-45 minutes linto her nap and I try to keep her down for another 45 minutes.  My night time routine is 5:00pm cereal then go up to the bath feed her the bottle and night time at about 6:30- 6:45pm.
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James John  Born:  April 21,  2002
Helena Bellmaine Born:  October 5,  2005

Offline Kimberly®

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2006, 18:29:51 pm »
one more questions :) how old is your LO again? Sorry I forgot
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Kimberly

Offline bellmaine

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2006, 18:36:49 pm »
She will be 5 months on March 5 she was born October 5, 2005
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James John  Born:  April 21,  2002
Helena Bellmaine Born:  October 5,  2005

Jo-FrasersMum

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2006, 04:49:28 am »
Hi Bellmaine

I agree with the pp that it sounds like Helena is using the bottle as an aid to falling asleep - so when she is waking during the night it is because the prop has been removed and she cannot transition into the next sleep cycle.

I think you need to focus really hard on not letting your LO fall asleep during that feed - explain to your DH that she is waking during the night because she expects him and the bottle to still be there and when they aren't she gets confused.  You will need to help Helena fall asleep once you stop letting her fall asleep feeding - use pat shh or if necessary pu/pd while she is getting used to it.  It will probably take a little while so you need to be really consistent with not letting her fall asleep feeding.

Oh, and a quick though on the daytime nap/45min issue - have you tried putting your LO down a bit earlier for her naps?  2 hours seems like quite a long awake time for a 5 month old (or my memory could be shot??).  Perhaps you could try the naps board for some advice on that.

Good luck
Jo
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Offline bellmaine

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2006, 07:41:36 am »
So when she wakes up like she just did at 1:00am do I not feed her and let her cry.  I tried that last night and she went on for almost 2 hours.  One more thing she is getting a cold should I start this now or wait until the cold goes away?
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James John  Born:  April 21,  2002
Helena Bellmaine Born:  October 5,  2005

Jo-FrasersMum

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2006, 08:42:56 am »
Hi there

Quote from: bellmaine on February 28, 2006, 07:41:36 am
So when she wakes up like she just did at 1:00am do I not feed her and let her cry.

I'm not sure what I said that gave you that idea.  These boards were developed to promote the ideas of Tracy Hogg, the Baby Whisperer, who believes that leaving your baby to cry breaks the bonds of trust between the parent and the baby.  You will not find people on here who support leaving your baby to cry.

What we will say is that you need to respond appropriately to Helena during the night - that means when she cries you need to go to her and either help her get back to sleep or feed her if she is hungry.  You can try to use pat/shh or if necessary pu/pd to help her fall asleep, but I would definitely NOT recommend leaving her to cry. 

My post recommended that you try and make sure that Helena falls asleep at the beginning of the night on her own - not using the bottle as a prop.  Please post back if you are unsure what I mean and I'll try and explain it better.

Jo
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Offline bellmaine

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2006, 11:47:52 am »
I am sorry I guess I said that in the wrong way.  I would never be able to let her cry it out.  I just meant there was nothing else besides the bottle that would calm her down.  I tried everything.  PU PD pat shush and nothing else would make her stop crying unless I gave in to her and gave her the bottle.  Tonight the same thing is happening except when I pick her up and rock her she settles down.  Do I continue this PU PD until 7:00am when she is suppose to get up?  Again I am sorry if I upset you I am a true believer in not letting your baby cry it out.  Thank You
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James John  Born:  April 21,  2002
Helena Bellmaine Born:  October 5,  2005

Offline Kimberly®

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2006, 14:55:04 pm »
I'm of the opinion that if you have tried everything to calm your LO and help her sleep but she just wont sleep and you know she's hungry feed her. 2 hours is to long. The longest I ever gave my LO was 45 minutes of PU/PD and she just wouldn't settle and was getting more and more frantic. I fed her put her back to bed awake and she put herself back to sleep till morning.
Put your best effort into it. give it 45minutes to an hour for her to settle then try feeding, put her down awake and let her sleep on her own.
Its a matter of balence. Listen to your LO she's at the right age were it could be a growth spurt and she needs food, you know her hungery cry and body language so listen to it.
Then your next step will be to fit more milk in her day. Ajust her feeding so she gets 1-2 oz extra at each feed and hopfully it will balence itself.
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Kimberly

Offline bellmaine

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2006, 15:04:10 pm »
Thank You that helps a lot.  I was not sure if I was suppose to not feed her at all and do PU PD until she went back to sleep.  But now I know if she doesn't stop after 45 minutes feed her.  Thank You so much everyone  I am having a really rough time at this and my husband is not helping the matter.  I appreciate everyone's advice
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James John  Born:  April 21,  2002
Helena Bellmaine Born:  October 5,  2005

Offline JoC

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2006, 16:55:50 pm »
hi,

i have just posted a similar query! How much is your lo eating through the day? It could be, like my little boy, she needs topping up with cluster feeding as the book suggests, i have just started this and am keeping my fingers crossed it will kick in. The book says they can eat as muck as 1400ml of milk, my lo was not getting this amount so is still waking in the night. I am upping his milk now. Also, have you tried giving her warm water? My lo will take 4-5 ounces if he wakes less than 3 hours after his last night feed. I put a little gripe water in it to give it a little taste. My thoughts are with you!
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Offline bellmaine

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2006, 13:23:25 pm »
I think that is it.  For some reason she doesn't seem interested in eating during the day.  Yesterday she only ate about 10 ounces during the day. Then ate 6:00pm she ate 6 ounces and woke up at 8:00am and ate another 4 ounces.  She slept till 2:00am and ate another 7 ounces.  I have to some how get her to eat during the day.  How old is your lo and I hope things get better for you also.  Thank You for your advice I really appreciate it.  Do you know how to show your appreciation to people on the boards because I would like to do that but don't know how.  These boards have been a life saver for me.
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James John  Born:  April 21,  2002
Helena Bellmaine Born:  October 5,  2005

Offline Kimberly®

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2006, 15:01:56 pm »
I think a lot of people run into problems with their LO's not eating a lot during the day, for us we just kep offering the bottle untill she'd take it. Sometimes she's eat her bottle half at a time, half at one time then an hour later she'd have the other half. Usually this was due to her wanting to play more then eat. Be persistent and she'll eventually eat for you.
I hope things get better for you :)

if you need to show appreciation just hit the "Thank you" under a posters name :)
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Kimberly

Offline JoC

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2006, 18:41:13 pm »
He is 6 months today. Started the pu/pd 3 days ago, having a nightmare at the moment!
Is your lo bottle or bf? If he is bottle, think about changing formula. I had my ds on a heavy type and he would never finish a bottle and it took hours to get him to take 7 ounces. I have changed to Cow and Gate and he is much better, someone told me this is a lighter formula. He takes all the bottle now. He was breast fed up to 5 weeks ago, as I am going back to work a week monday :-\
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Offline jessica5

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Re: At a lost
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2006, 19:25:15 pm »
I have a spirited five month old who is also not a big eater (especially during the day) and a 2 1/2 year old in preschool two days a week.  It makes it very hard to maintain EASY with your little one!

I had to modify the 4 hour EASY to accomodate my older daughter's school days.  My baby still takes three naps a day, but I have had to move them around so she doesn't get her routine messed up on the days we have to go to and from school.

Here's our day:

E  7 AM wake & eat
A  (on school days we take my oldest to school at 8:45)
S  9:00 to 10:30
E  11 AM
A
S  12:30 - 1:30 (I have to wake her so we can go pick up her sister)
A
E  2:40 or 3:00 ish
A  I try and interact/play with her at least for a few minutes, so she doesn't go to sleep with this bottle
S  3:30 - 5:30
E  6:00 (solids)
A
E  7 PM
A  Bedtime routine
S  8 PM
Dream feed 11 PM (she often won't take much because she's sleepy)
Wakes at 4:00 and 6:30.... but we shh/pat to get back to sleep.  I used to think she was hungry when she woke at 4 AM, but she just drank a little & dozed back off. 

Moving to this routine, my daughter has started drinking more at feeds during the day and when I feed her at 7 AM she doesn't guzzle the bottle as if she is starving from going all night without one.

It's kind of an awkward routine, but I think my daughter seems a lot more comfortable with a routine. 

Also, she cries before every nap and every night before bed.  I have read that some babies need to do this to expend extra energy..... I don't know if it's true, but it reassures me to think she isn't miserable.

I actually lie on the floor by her crib when she wakes at 4 AM and 6:30 AM, so I can shh/pat her whenever she needs to be reassured.  The PU/PD didn't work for us because it got my daughter more wound up and her pre-sleep crying went on a lot longer.  It's very slow going, but my daughter is getting easier and easier to soothe back to sleep during these night wakings.

My husband is also a little less than helpful in my attempts to implement a routine.  In the middle of the night, he'd much rather give our daughter a bottle so she'll be quiet & fall back asleep quickly.... which, of course, is encouraging her to use the bottle as a prop instead of learning how to go to sleep on her own.  As a result, I'm doing most of this myself (which makes me a little miffed/tired, but I know it will, ultimately, get better as my daughter learns to sleep through the night).

HTH and you find a way to work out a routine for both of your children - it's really tough!
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Jessica
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