Pregnant And Breastfeeding Support Thread

[tigerlilly905]

That's probably a good idea w. the More Milk 2. I started it once my PP AF came back too... like you, I didn't want to be too late. Better to be proactive for sure!   I know you don't like pumping, but I pumped and pumped like crazy before I got preg just in case I had any issues.  Of course, I now have 1/2 a deep freezer full of bmilk.. LOL, but I'll be giving it to DS once my milk starts to turn to Colostrum (from what I've read between 4-6 mths preg).. I still plan on bfing DS through that, but from what I've read it might not be as satisfying as regular bmilk, so he might need both, kwim?

Anyways, sending you lots of positive TTC vibes! xo

[tigerlilly905]

I know there isn't many ppl left here, but I just thought I'd post... I think I'm going through a bit of a drop... definitely not a "dry up" - thank goodness - but my supply seems lower in the evening... it's weird, morning I'm engorged and have more then enough, but it seems like my supply slowly drops through the day and by DS's night time feed its pretty low... this has been for the past 3 days or so... I noticed him fussing more as he was nursing before bed, so as a "test" I brought a small bottle in with frozen milk, and after his feed, I offered him the bottle and he took an extra 3 oz...  hopefully it's just a blip and this is the worst it gets... I'm almost 3.5 mths preg now, so I know in the next month or so the milk should be making its transition to colostrum... which will be another transition.. but thankfully I still have lots of frozen milk I haven't used.

One other thing I've noticed, and I *think* it has to do w/ the introduction of solids and not b/c I'm preg, but I've noticed the past 2 wks or so DS doesn't seem as interested in his 3rd b-feed of the day.  Right now he does 4 bfeeds a day... 7AM, 11AM (before long nap), mid-PM (around 4pm) and bedtime 7:30PM.  And the 4pm feed really doesn't interest him.  I keep offering it, and he takes a bit, but then wants to play.  He's eating a tonne of solids now at breakfast/lunch/dinner, so I think it has to do with that... anyone have any thoughts?  I hope it's nothing to do w. my milk and just the normal transition to solids.

[*Ali*]

I heard that most BF babies who take a few ozs from a bottle after a BF if it's offered, similar to them taking from the other breast once they are fed up of the first. There is still some in the first breast but it is quicker and so easier from the new breast. Just like with the bottle. SO it doesn't necessarily mean your milk wasn't enough for him. I am always engorged in the morning after STTN but they feel empty by the evening. DS will still take a full feed from them and STTN so he must get enough.
I found that our BFs reduced when I introduced solids. I cut back on the solids for a couple weeks and started feeding in a darkened quiet room and he was back to his little greedy self! I assume he has had lunch once he wakes up from his nap before his 4pm BF? If so could you try moving the 3rd BF to straight after his nap and give lunch an hour later? Then he might not be so full from the solids? I don't worry about sticking to 4 hrly feeds now with the naps and solids as they are you have to be a little creative. We do BFs at 7:30, 13:00 (after nap1), 15:30 (before nap2) and 19:30 (before BF winddown).He has solids around 9:00, 14:00 and 17:30/18:00. Anyway back to topic..
I hope your supply stays up. FX. 

[tigerlilly905]

Thanks CM!!

I give him both breasts at every feed. We used to do single sided until he switched to the 4 hr+ EASY around 12wks.  Once he was on the longer EASY he needed milk from both sides to sustain him the longer period of time.  Maybe you're right though, maybe my milk just isn't coming out fast enough for him and he was lazy and took the bottle instead.  I'll keep at it... not giving up!

Thanks for confirming my suspicions, RE introducing solids and being less interested in feeds... is that a "normal" part of weaning though? I don't want to hinder the introduction of solids by giving him too much milk... I guess it's a tricky balance to hit, huh?  On one hand you want them to get enough solids, and on the other, enough milk! DS is a BIG eater either way, and we really don't have any concerns as far as weight and development goes, but I want to make sure he's getting the nutrients he needs, kwim>?

Are you in the 2WW, CM?? Hope it's a BFP for you this month!!!

[bug_blues70]

I don't want to hinder the introduction of solids by giving him too much milk... I guess it's a tricky balance to hit, huh?  On one hand you want them to get enough solids, and on the other, enough milk!

I'm still here but not saying much b/c I'm no longer bf, but I just have to chime in here about this. I am having trouble with this balance too!!! I can't get her to eat much more than about 4-6 oz of solids a day so I *have* to give her more milk (or get a hungry baby and lots of NW) but if I give her that much milk, she won't eat solids... it's a catch 22!!! What to do???

[*Ali*]

I am CD11 actually so waiting to ov. A BFP would be great then I could be a bonafide member of this thread yay!
Don't forget they get all the nutrients they needs from the BM or formula and that solids are just for fun and learning until 1yo. They don't need massive quantities they just need to experience different tastes and textures. Ideally they would still be taking the same amount of BM/formula as they used to for a while yet. If they are cutting back on milk you probably want to watch the solids. I did and it really helped. he hardly took any solids until about 8mo now he is taking much more. have a look at this link.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=118497.0
Anyway sorry mods for getting off topic!

[bug_blues70]

Thanks CM!

[tigerlilly905]

Thanks so much for the info...

Ok, so here's my current delema...

DS eats A LOT of solids... and I thought he just had a big appetite (he always has!)  - now I'm beginning to wonder -What if my supply has slowly been dropping the past few weeks and to compensate for the lack of milk, he's eating more solids?? I've tried to pump to do a "yield" (even though I know it's now the most accurate) but for the past month or so my breasts haven't been reacting the same to the pump and I can't seem to get as much milk.  I know a baby is far more efficient then a pump, so I'm really not putting much stock in a pump yield.  His time bfing is about the same each feed - 10 mins combined between both sides.. this was his usual even before I was preg.  I wonder if the milk is becoming just a 'snack' until he eats his solids.... ?? I know he should be taking the same amount of milk as before, but i just have no idea!  I mean, I could do a day of feeding him the bottle w/ my frozen milk to see what he's consuming, but I don't want to give up a day of him on the breast incase my body is trying to stop milk production, kwim??

Argh!! SO hard!! Maybe I'm being paranoid and over thinking things, but i just don't know.  He's full between the milk and solids and doesn't wake up hungry or anything, I just want to make sure he's getting the right balance of the 2.

And now to my next thought...

Looking ahead *IF* my supply does slow/stop what would you do in my situation??:

a) use all the frozen bmilk in the deep freeze exclusively until it's gone and then... (reluctantly) switch to formula

b) use a combination of formula (sigh) and the frozen bmilk throughout the day, so that baby gets bmilk longer over a longer stretch of time

I haven't done a total inventory as to how much exactly I have in my deep freeze.. I still have at least 1/3 of the freezer, so quite a bit... I know formula isn't the end of the world, but I REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to avoid it... argh, I pray my supply keeps up and I'm just being silly!

Megan - I totally forget, can you post the link of the Organic formula you're using w/ Ellen... I might order some just in case...

Feeling crappy about this.. but I don't know what else to think? *sigh*

[*Ali*]

I feel for you Rebecca. I think you have to use all the frozen BM within 6 months don't you? You better check the dates and see how long you could make it last. I would probably do a mixture of the 2 for a while. You will probably need to wean him onto formula slowly if he has never had it before I imagine. Do you know if it's common for the milk to come back in the last trimester? I seem to remember reading something about that but not sure if I've got it wrong.

[bug_blues70]

Hey Rebecca!! I suddenly couldn't get much from the pump either... and they say that babies are much more efficient, but I'm not so sure I really believe they are really all that much more. BW says baby can get about 1 ounce more than you can pump - and I don't think when my supply was dwindling that she really could get that much more, simply b/c of the ratio: if she could normally get one ounce more when I can pump 5oz, then she logically would only be able to get 1/5 oz more if I could only pump 1oz, kwim? Cuz if you used to be able to pump 8oz and now you can only pump 4, there's no way it's just b/c he's more efficient than the pump and he's still getting 8oz, IMO.

If you want to feed him from a bottle for a day, first count everything he eats for 2-3 days b/c just b/c you give him a 6oz bottle and he drinks it all doesn't mean that's what he's getting from you... you'd have to see if his solids decrease too. And you'd probably do better to do the experiment over at least 2 days, not just one, IMO. And even then, I'd probably combine that info with a yield to get a better educated guess.

As far as whether to feed him 100% bm as long as possible or to combine, that's completely up to you. I think there are probably benefits both ways, but one thing I'd definitely say is that even if you decide to do BM ALAP you might still save some for the transition and start introducing formula before you run out. They're not lying when they say poop changes (although Charlie's probably already has since he's on so much solids) but I did notice that any time she was constipated if I gave her BM for a few bottles, it would help things pass through.

Argh!! SO hard!! Maybe I'm being paranoid and over thinking things, but i just don't know.

I don't think so, IMHO. You are almost 4 months pregnant and your body is trying to get ready for Baby#2. It's normal and natural for your milk production to slow/stop and ultimately change to colostrum. I know it's hard to accept, believe me I *know*. And it's SOOOO hard to give them that first bottle of formula. Well, it's hard to give them any formula, but especially at first. But you have done an AMAZING job of doing everything you can to keep up your supply and do what's best for C. And you had great foresight to store up as much BM as possible - you did great and it's not over yet, it just might be time to start supplementing, either with FF or your EBM b/c you do want to do what's best for Charlie and if you think he might not be getting enough BM that's not good for him.

I'm definitely not trying to be negative here, so please don't think that. I'm just trying to be honest and from what you have said it definitely sounds like there is cause to be concerned about the amount of BM he might or might not be getting. Especially since you are nearing your 4th month already, kwim?

Posting at the same time as CM -
And I've heard too that milk increases in the 3rd trimester, BUT it's still colostrum until after the newbie comes...

[bug_blues70]

Oh, and here's the website for the formula:

http://www.naturesone.com/

It says toddler formula, but if you read all the info on the website you'll find they say it's ok to give babies under a year and they label it toddler to discourage the use of formula instead of BM for the first year. Also, they say that the dairy is recommended over the soy unless there is dairy intolerance (soy mimics estrogen in the body) Anyway, GGFN, I have to go wake Ellen up. She has slept a LOT today and is still fussy - not sure why. Teething maybe... it would be about time!!

[*Ali*]

Hey Rebecca!! I suddenly couldn't get much from the pump either... and they say that babies are much more efficient, but I'm not so sure I really believe they are really all that much more. BW says baby can get about 1 ounce more than you can pump - and I don't think when my supply was dwindling that she really could get that much more, simply b/c of the ratio: if she could normally get one ounce more when I can pump 5oz, then she logically would only be able to get 1/5 oz more if I could only pump 1oz, kwim? Cuz if you used to be able to pump 8oz and now you can only pump 4, there's no way it's just b/c he's more efficient than the pump and he's still getting 8oz, IMO.

I just wanted to add in that most of your milk is made in the breast WHILE your baby is feeding. Only so much of it is made and stored before the actual feed. Your baby's suckling stimulates this milk production continually throught the entire feed whereas the pump might not stimulate the breasts sufficiently to produce any milk. Some women cannot pump even an oz ever as their bodies just don't respond to the pump but they are still able to EBF their LOs for the first 6mo of their lives with no problems. So IMO it makes evolutionary sense for your body to be more selective during pregnancy. So it is possible for your LO to be getting a full feed and for you to be unable to pump anywhere near that amount. It is for this reason that yield tests have been deemed unreliable. Unfortunately this info came to light after Tracy's passing so she was not given the opportunity to revise her opinion on this matter. I have read words to this effect on this site before but was unable to find the link to it just now.
Obviously I cannot say whether this is the case for you Rebecca just that it is possible for some. FX you can keep at it with the BFing if that is what you desire.

[tigerlilly905]

Thanks for your support ladies... it really is hard. But I still have lots of hope

I think you have to use all the frozen BM within 6 months don't you? You better check the dates and see how long you could make it last. I would probably do a mixture of the 2 for a while.

I had heard the 6 mth rule but had also read on the LLL site that it was good for 6 mths +, so I made a post asking about it a while back:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=177239.msg2006571#msg2006571

Apparently EBM is good in the deep freezer for up to one year, so I'm good to go

I also made a post on the general bf thread and it was recommended that I put him on the breast more frequently... so I may try that.  I think I might cap his solids because he really is consuming alot! - and then giving him extra frozen bmilk after to fill him. (he does get a little "drink" after, but that's usually to practice w./ his cup)

I going to keep trying to get my head wrapped around formula, but I'm going to keep EBF'ing for now... I'll keep you posted  for sure!  Megan, thanks for the link! I swore I had it bookmarked, but couldn't find it.  Glad there's a good organic formula out there.  I want to double check the formula guidelines in the States compared to Canada.  I'm sure they're pretty much the same, but I'm not 100%.

[bug_blues70]

Ok, I'm not trying to argue, but I was thinking about it (even before I read your post CM) and I was going to add that while it is *possible* he is still getting a full feed, it only makes sense to me that if a person were able to pump so efficiently before and get so much extra as you did, Rebecca, and then all of the sudden (or even gradually) you can't anymore, it doesn't make logical sense to me to chalk it up to pump inefficiency. So yes, while some women can never pump and yet they can EBF the difference is they never could pump. In your case, you were getting a ton from the pump, so something has changed. Your pump didn't change, and Charlie probably didn't change, but yet something is different. For example, if a person were getting 6oz from the pump, but their baby could get 8 b/c he were more efficient, but now that person is getting 4 from the pump, it stands to reason that the baby probably isn't getting 8 anymore even if he is more efficient. Especially if that person is 4 months pregnant and supply is known to commonly drop during pregnancy. I don't know, this is just my opinion and don't want to sound argumentative, smartass or patronizing or anything, so forgive me if I sound anything but sincere. You've also already said that you have decided what you are going to do, and I fully encourage you to do what is right for you and to follow your gut. I'm not trying to harp either. I personally am glad to hear you are going to top him up using a bottle. I think feeding more often is a great idea too - I'm not at all trying to imply you should give it up altogether or stop trying to keep your supply up.

[tigerlilly905]

I totally agree with what you're saying Megan... My body isn't reacting the way it was to the pump, so obviously something has changed... I'm hoping it's just that... but I won't let the health of my child become effected due to me being stubborn and not wanting to try formula.  That being said, I'm going to try the extra feeds for now and  offer extra milk throughout the day and see how that goes.  If I still notice a steady decline, I will have to consider more seriously introducing formula.  But I think this is just the beginning stages if my supply is dropping.. and I'm hoping this might be the worst it will get... what can i say, I'm a perpetual optomist  

I appreciate the posts considering there really doesn't seem to be many who have advice/experience with this right now. 

Megan, thank you so much for your honesty, and I know you are being nothing but sincere.

CM - thank you for your input as well, I appreciate having this thread to have ppl to talk to about this.