Night wakings and nightfeeds

[LisbonMom]

My lo is waking 2 times at night, regularly, and when I feed her she won't take a full feed. Because of this, the regular wake-up time, and that she has done long stretches at night, I now think she needs the boob to fall back to sleep at night. However, I don't want to go cold turkey on all feeds because she might still need a night feed. So .... how can I do this? Should I try wake-to-sleep to eliminate the regular wakings and give her a dream feed in the middle of the night until things get sorted out? Any advice welcome, TIA!

Sara

[teezee]

there are many methods u can use to accomplish this - although u can be the only one to know your lo well enough to know what might work for her.  since have eliminated hunger as an option, u could try wake to sleep (never done this myself), sh/pat with eye shielding, wean her off the night feeds by cutting down minutes every few nights, gentle removal (also haven't used but thought i would have to at one point) here's the link for that one: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0

when your lo cried in the night how long do u leave her before getting up? i know even a minute can feel like an eternity when u are woken out of a sleep to screaming, but maybe trying to leave her a bit longer to see if maybe she can settle herself?  what is her daytime schedule like? does her routine possibly need tweaking??

[LisbonMom]

Hey Tawnya, thanks for the reply. To answer your questions:

 - sh/pat with eye shielding - I've tried it not long ago. It took ages for her to settle and when she finally did, she woke an hour later. Plus, my back is killing me, and dh can't stand to hear her cry, so I don't think I can use this one.

 - wean her off the night feeds by cutting down minutes every few nights - I've tried only giving her one side, but she screams when I put her down, like she's been cheated. I have also tried to de-latch her early, when the gulping slows down, and again, screaming.

 - gentle removal (also haven't used but thought i would have to at one point) - I actually have the original book. Don't know if this would work as she de-latches on her own. It's like she needs to suck on the boob for a while and then she'll go down fine, she's not actually falling asleep on the boob.

 - when your lo cried in the night how long do u leave her before getting up? i know even a minute can feel like an eternity when u are woken out of a sleep to screaming, but maybe trying to leave her a bit longer to see if maybe she can settle herself? - I've tried it already. It just gets worse as time goes by. She only settled once on her own, because I was in the loo and couldn't go to her  , so I tried to stop myself from going in to her too soon, but she doesn't settle. That time she did settle, she woke at an irregular time.

 - what is her daytime schedule like? - She's pretty much on 3-hour EASY, sometimes will nap better than others, sometimes will go 3.5 hours between feeds.

 - does her routine possibly need tweaking?? I've thought about this too, but don't really know where to tweak. She is slowly departing from the 3-hour routine, but her A time is still short, so I don't really know how to help her move along.

Anyway, my point really was how do you eliminate feed-as-a-prop night wakings when they still need night-feeds .... When do you feed them ?? ??

I have tried to get her to take more during the day, but she won't eat any extra.

[teezee]

i would try a df at 10 or 11 or so and see if after a few days this helps.  i have successfully used cutting feeds down by minutes to get rid of night feeds but your lo is young and may still need a night feeding or two. but, by cutting down night feeds slowly by minutes, u will naturally be teaching your lo to take more calories during the day as she will not be getting it at night. i also had a horrible time trying to get lo to take more bm during the day and went to extreme lengths ie pumping and trying bottle, then sippy, then straw, putting it in food...was crazy and this worked like a charm. yes, dd did cry and scream like she was being cheated too, i would just calm her however i possible could without using the breast (usually a paci) and eventually she stopped waking for feeds.  it isn't easy but if u start definately stick with it as u don't want to send your dd mixed messages.  i also think that u may want to stretch easy to 4 hrs, slowly if dd isn't completely ready (although since u say that sometimes she goes 3.5hrs without a problem i think she would be ready). i waited until 4 months to switch and probably should have done it at 3....4 hr easy will help lo take more calories and help her learn to sustain her belly for longer periods.  hope i answered your question better this time!  let me know if i can help anymore!

[LisbonMom]

Tawnya, you've been an angel!

I have been giving a df at 11, but see no difference yet. Will wait a few more days ...
So, some questions, in cutting down minutes at the breast, should I just calm her afterwards? I can't use a paci because she sucks on her thumb. I know what you mean by sendig mixed messages  (give me a minute for my major guilt trip...), it just took me a while to figure out what was happening and why, now that I do know it's easier to tackle

I'm a bit scared to stretch to a 4 hour EASY. Don't really know how to adapt her routine to it, with such short A times. How did you do it? I do feel that when she goes 3.5 hours between feeds she eats better, so that should be my cue, right?

[Vanness]

Hi there,

My husband and I are desperately need some help here. Here is the situation with our little Matthew.....

- Matthew is 2 and 1/2 months old. He is currently on a 4 hours. Everything is normal during the day. He eats, stays up to play and sleep without a fuss. I usually swaddle him and give him a dummy and he falls asleep on his own. I know for a baby his age, he should be on a 3 hours routine. I have tried but he won't finish his full feed.

- Everynight he goes down around 7.30pm. No problem with that, he usually sleeps right through to 1 or 2am. Then he will wake up for another feed. He will then wake up at 4am again. I have tried to cluster and dream feed him, but he is still waking up at 2 and again 4am. When he is awake, it usually pretty easy to get him to sleep again. I figured that his night time waking is habitual. So I have tried to set the alarm 1 hour before his usual wake time, but he still wakes up the same time. So we end up waking up 4 times in 5 hours!!!! I have tried everything Tracy Hogg has recommended in her book. But they do nothing but creating more problems.

We need some assistance here!! What should I do? Go back to no dream feed and let him wake up at the usual time?

[teezee]

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0

here is the link about the night weaning.  i do post this with caution as your lo is still young enough that she MAY still need those night feeds. but if u are absolutely sure that it is not a hunger waking i would say go for it!..at least if u try weaning gradually, u will know  . i personally didn't try tackling this issue with dd until 6 months and took about a month or so for it to actually have had an effect.  also, the df didn't work for my lo (wish i would have realized that before 7 months!!!!) or at least not at the end.  i would keep with it a few days more and see what happens, if not cut it out and see what the difference actually is.

definately the 4 hr easy is ideal for your lo.  and yes, i think she is trying to tell u that is what she needs. think of easy as a guideline not a rule set in stone.  if u have to adapt the schedule to aeasy or whatever as long as it is a routine - u have done well!! let me know how things are progressing  ...and really i am not an angel - far from it...just trying to repay the favors and advice i received when i was just about hopeless    it does feel good to help others!

vanness - how long have u tried the cluster or df for??  how is he when he does wake in the night?? could it be gas or some other underlying issue? the df doesn't work for ALL babies and if your lo is only waking once or twice a night without it - maybe that is the way for u to go.  at this age, a lo definately needs to be fed if waking hungry at night.

[Vanness]

Thanks for your advice so far, much appreciated!!  :)I was trying to share my concern at the local mother's group. Apparently most of the mothers there don't have the same concern as me! As their babies are already sleeping through the night?! They are all around the same age as Matthew, somewhere between 7-13 weeks. That's why I thought I may be doing something wrong here.

I must say Matthew is pretty good when he wakes up, usually as soon as he sees one of us he will almost stop crying. I only need to re-swaddle him and he will fall back asleep within minutes. But if he cries again within an hour, we know he is definitely hungry. I have been trying cluster feed for a week, he just refused to take it.