16 mo wakes, cry & dont want us

[Ruggie]

Hi,

I know its another early waking question, but please help with suggestions and tips.
16 mo DS has been waking up anywhere between 4:30-5:30 and cry. Not a distress cry at first and we just ignore it. More like an Errrr, errr, errr and stop. then he starts again, until it becomes a distress cry, then we come in.

We have tried:
1. come in when he first cry (thinking he is still 1/2 asleep and it will be easier to help him back)...wrong!
2. leave him to cry until its the distress cry, then we come in and we either tell him its time to sleep and leave or rub his back/tummy...not working

What can we do? He fights, arches his back when we pick him up to and cuddle him. So we put him down and to assure him that we are there we hold his hand or rub his back/tummy, he pushes our hands away. If I just sit by the cot he would scream. If I stand by the door, he would scream, if I leave the room, he cried. He would do this to both DH and I.
This would go on until 6 where we can see its not working and start our day. Which means we have been awake since 4ish. I am 36 weeks preggo and DH is exhausted as he has been the one getting up more.

Please help, I have 19 days to sort this out b4 the new bub arrive.

Oh, he usually naps for 2 - 3 hours during the day over 2 naps or 1 long one and would be asleep by 7:30ish in the evening

Thanks
Loanne

[imsmum]

Sounds like lo needs to go to one nap on a consistent basis. On days he has one nap when does he nap and for how long?  I would try that consistently for a week--pushing the nap to around 12:30-1 o'clock.  You may need to put him down  1/2 hour to an hour early depending on the length of his nap.  There should be about 4.5 to 5 hours between when he wakes from his nap and bed (asleep) time.  Good luck!

[Ruggie]

On the nap nap days he would nap for 2 hours from 10-12.
Which means by the time its bed time, I think he is usually overtired so we tried to settle him a little earlier.
So I should try to keep him up longer in the morning?

[Nikki~Nathanamp;Danielle]

Sounds like what my ds was like too. We've only just managed in the last month or so get out of it (he'll be 3 in 2mths), and unfortunately it was something he's just outgrown - no magic cure. 

We were stuck with 5am wake ups (and most often he woke grumpy and almost in a tantrum state when we tried to get him to sleep longer yet he was clearly still tired), which also resulted in an early morning nap until he was around 20mths and I was then able to push his nap out to around 11ish and then quickly became 1pm.

I agree that you need to work on one nap and maybe push it out in 15min slots - it's hard I know, because for us the morning gap was the shortest he was able to stay awake and like your ds was then awake from midday until his 7pm bedtime (my ds only made the switch to one nap at 16mths). I would suggest an earlier bedtime regardless of whether you switch to one nap or not.  If you're getting up at 4.30, an earlier bedtime will hopefully just add on extra sleeptime and help you get out of the rut of an overtired child. I would doubt it would mean an even earlier wake up. At one stage, I brought my ds's bedtime in to 6pm and he still woke at 5am, so at least I knew he was getting the sleep he needed.

I would continue to respond to him as you are, as tiring as that is. My dh also had the job right the way through my pregnancy and when my dd was born. What we would also do was, our ds had a big bed set up in his room, and occasionally DH would lie down with him at that time and they'd both get a bit of extra sleep.

Hugs to you, I know how hard it is. I have heard that by age 3, most toddler sleep issues settle down and I thought it would never happen, but finally we seem to be on the other side of it.

HTH

[rach]

Have you tried the wake-to-sleep method?  Go into your ds an hour before he normally wakes, and wake him up (not completely), change his nappy, and then settle him back down, just gently say that its not wake up time yet and we're going back to sleep.  He may be a bit grumpy as he settles back down, but do this for 3 nights running and you should break his habit - extending his sleep time.  This may in turn help you out with the daytime naps, as if the quality of night-time sleep is improved, then it should help his daytime naps to become more consistent.

HTHs, keep us posted.

Rachel xx

[Ruggie]

Thanks Ladies

I was hoping that its a passing phase and would sort itself out. Nice to know that it is.
Will definately try the later morning nap, tho its really hard coz he keep chasing me around the house asking to be put in his cot (sign language). Its hard when he knows what he wants and is asking for it to deny him.

I haven't tried the WTS method with him, coz the wakings is anything from 4 to 5:30 so we dont know when to do that. Plus the other night he woke up crying at 12am, I thought that might throw him off, but he still wakes at 4:45 and we went thru the whole thing again.

Sitting tight and here is hoping we can sort it out soon, coz his big boy bed is already for him.

[Samuel's Mom]

Regarding working on his morning nap being a bit later in the morning.  I loved it when Samuel was able to tell me what he wanted (sign or he talks quite well now) , but then it brings up a whole new set of issues when they are telling you what they want, but you know better.  I would suggest even if he is following you around signing for a nap, try to extend his awake time a little bit at a time by doing some quiet activity with him.  So when he signs for a nap, you can say okay, but we need to read a few books first, etc.  Even by 15 min increments it might help the early waking.  I know at this age, my sons awake time was very much related to his daytime naps.  The less he naped, the earlier he woke up (and grumpier). 

Also, have you tried leaving a sippy cup of water in his crib?  Maybe he just needs a drink and that may help settle him back down in the early morning?

Good Luck, Nicole

[Harrisonsmummy]

Hi, We have had similar problems too, and I would definately promote the extra early bedtime. When they aren't so tired they do sleep a little longer in the morning, and it stops the night wakings. We were waking at 4.20am ish, but by bringing bedtime forward as early as possible we kind of stocked up on sleep, which in turn pushes early morning wakings back as well. At the moment we are stuck at 5.30am, but I have just read that the early morning wake ups take slightly longer to resolve - so hopefully, working on the naptime, and early bedtimes will see a result, but it may take a couple of weeks to come through!

With a bit of luck you will make it in time!

Good luck, Justine x

[georgia's mama]

Hi there, on a bit of a different note...I've read that if they wake unhappy they still need more sleep.  Most children transition into another sleep phase around 4-5 in the am (depending on bedtime) and will often have trouble with this, thus creating the early morning wakings.  If you continue to try PD/leave, PD/leave...(until you think it's an appropriate wake time) he may figure out that he still needs more sleep and go back off for another hour.  Then I would hold off the morning nap, push for the one nap with your same bedtime.  With our DD when we tried putting her to bed earlier it only encouraged the early am wakes and then she would be zonked and needing a mornign nap thus throwing the rest of the day off.

This is just what worked for us...they are all so different.  Good Luck.

Michele

[Ruggie]

Wooohoooo:) ....success!!!!  well almost...Here is our progress for the last few days:

I have managed the later nap, he now nap at 11-12:30 (used to be 9:30-11 and 3:30-5). But that only gives him 1.5 hr nap all day. We now start his bath at 6 and try to get him to sleep by 6:45-7 (used to be 7 and asleep by .

As to the morning wakings, he woke up at 6:30 once and for the past 2 mornings at 5 and 5:15 and still grumpy. So I guess we have made some progress from the 4/4:30. This progress, I assume is a flow on effect from his 1 nap and earlier sleep time.

Just 2 issues now:
1. He gets rather clingy and grumpy in the afternoon (which is understandable), should I let him stick to this new routine and he will get use to it, or does he need a catnap? I have tried put him in his cot when he asked for it...but so far no luck.

2. He used to talk to himself until he falls asleep in the evening, but now with the new schedule, he would cry and cry. DH either have to cuddle him or rub his back or sit in the room with him (that is if he lets DH stays in the room). Is this coz he is overtirred?

Any thoughts?

[Nikki~Nathanamp;Danielle]

I would stick with the new schedule and things should improve over a couple of weeks. My 12mth old has just gone to 1 nap consistently using the same method and she's getting used to it now. If she's a bit clingy in the late afternoon I pop a DVD on (I know, maybe not the best choice) - but it gets us through and she gets a bit of quiet zone out time until dinner.

As far as crying at bedtime, just go with it and reassure and hopefully it will improve as he adjusts to the one nap.

Also I found that my dd's nap was about 1.25hr in length for the first week, but in the last week has been consistently 2.5hrs - so since that's lengthened she's happier in the afternoon.  Have you tried a slightly earlier bedtime?

[jolenelim]

So great to know that everything fell into place, Loanne! My 16mo DS is kinda in the same boat as well...

"NORMAL" day looks like this:
7am Wake
730am Breakfast
10am Nap (90 mins)
1130am snack
1pm Lunch
3pm Nap (60 mins)
5pm Dinner
730pm Bedtime

Last Thursday, DS became big bro as DD was born. I was away in the hospital that night. No problems with naps (10-1130am & 3-4pm) or bedtime (730pm).

Friday, I got home and DS met DD. Night waking at 1030pm. Didn't want to be carried (retreat further back into cot) but didn't want us to leave. We finally left room after trying to comfort him and he had this grumpy, complaining cry. Lasted for about 15 mins.

Saturday: Same as Friday. Meanwhile, first nap getting shorter. And throwing tantrum at 2nd nap.

Sunday: Same as Saturday.

Monday: Did WTS at 930pm. He woke up and got pretty upset with me. Didn't want me to touch him. Started crying for about 5 mins. Slept through.

Tuesday: Same as Monday.

Wednesday: Did WTS again at 930pm. He got REALLY mad. Took him about 30 mins to settle down with DH and I taking turns to comfort him. Woke up again at 12am but he was just doing a mantra cry so we didn't go into his room. Stopped after about 15 mins. Meanwhile, he is fighting 2nd nap. And I started putting him down 15 mins later for 1st nap and he just slept for 1 hour.

Thursday: Gave him milk at 10am, and put him down at 11am for first nap. Slept for 90 mins. Gave him a 45 min catnap in afternoon (he fought hard) and put him down at 7pm for bedtime (but he only went to sleep at 8pm - could hear him playing in crib). No more night wakings.

Today: Pushed 1st nap to 11:15am. Woke up at 12:40pm.......
Should I give him a catnap in the afternoon? Like offer him time-out in his crib?
Should I move up his bedtime?

Please please please please give me some tips or tricks. He used to be such an independent sleeper and napper. Now he is throwing tantrums!! I understand it is a developmental thing for 15-16mos... please tell me I'll survive this WHILE I'm just 1 week postpartum with a newborn......................... 

[imsmum]

Jolene --it sounds like a lot of this is related to the arrival of the new baby.  Hugs to you trying to deal with all of this at once!
Do you have any help right now?  If you can get some, do!  I think because of all of the changes you're just going to have to go with the flow a bit.  Some days one nap, some 2 if there has been a bad night.  Normally I would say once you go with one nap try to stick with it but with the new baby you may not want to push things with your older lo too much right now!