3-4 hour EASY transition question

[Jenna's Mum]

Hi, I posted this in another thread but I think it got lost in there so I'm reposting as a new topic.  My dd is 3 months old and on 3 hour EASY.  She's been doing really well with this, and we have a great routine.  Lately though I think she needs to start making the transition to 4 hour, so I started today by extending her second feed to 10:15am instead of 10am.  Then the next one til 1:30pm instead of what would have then been the new time of 1:15am.  I kept the other feeds 3 hours apart, but that leaves me with a dilemma:  Instead of a 7pm last feed, it's a 7:30pm last feed, which puts her bedtime a little later.  Is this okay?  Also, do I still DF at 10am or push it out to 10:30pm?  I'd like to keep it at 10pm because I like to get to bed after that.  I think my dd would actually go 3.5 hours between each feed or might possibly transition easily to a 4 hour EASY but I'm confused if not making a jump from 3 - 4, and how to get those inbetween times worked out by the end of the day while keeping her bedtime the same   Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

[HeatherC]

Hi.  I've copied a link you might want to look at:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=41061.0

[Jenna's Mum]

Thanks, this is where I had posted originally because the thread didn't specifically answer the questions I have about how to keep dd's bedtime the same when the rest of the day is on 3.5 hour EASY... it just doesn't work out until you actually get to the 4 hour routine.  On a 3 hour routine the day starts and ends at 7, and on 4 hour it does the same with one less feed.  But with a 3.5 hour routine, it just doesn't work out so smoothly so I'm not sure how to handle that... on 3.5 hours her bedtime feed would either have to be 1.5 hours after a 5:30pm feed, or 9pm, but she goes to bed at 7:45-8pm so it's all out of whack until you can get to the 4 hour routine   

How about just switching to a 4 hour routine?  Is that not possible... to just go from 3 hours to 4 hours?  My problem right now is that dd can't stay awake for as long as the 4 hour routine suggests, but she's showing the other signs for needing to switch to a longer routine.  She stays awake probably 1.5 hours, sometimes longer if we're out and and about running errands.  I'm just not sure what the best thing to do is.

[HeatherC]

I apologize for such a short reply earlier, but just as I was thinking and trying to post, the phone rang and dd started to wake from her nap.
Anyway...It is totally okay to have different amounts of time between each feed.  For example, some can be spaced 3.5 hrs and others 4hrs.  I understand that the example in the book is confusing, but the general idea I think is to eventually consolidate the 1 and 4 o'clock feeds into one feed at 3.  It is fine to just take the plunge if you think your dd can handle it.  Mine just slept past a feed one day and we never looked back.
You can certainly keep the same df time through all of this.  And you can still feed at 7, even if she doesn't take as much, she might make it up with the df.
Here's some examples:
7, 10:30, 1:30, 4:30, 7:30
7, 11, 2:30, 6:30
7, 10:30, 2:45, 6:45

[Jenna's Mum]

Thanks Heather, it's good to know your dd made the switch one day easily.  I would like to try her on the 4 hour-ish routine as I'm pretty certain she can go the time between feeds... but my problem is now the awake time.  For example, after I feed her at 7am, she can stay awake until about 8:30am and then she's ready for a nap.  I could put her down then and I know she could sleep for 2 hours, but then she'd be up half hour before her next feed.  That's okay too except then it cuts into the activity time for after the 11am feed, meaning she'd nap even sooner after that feed and so on and so on until it would get all out of sync.  Do I just try to keep her up?  Or do I let her sleep longer until the feed?  I feel like that would be too much sleep... 2 naps of 2.5 hours plus a catnap before dinner... that's going to cut into her nighttime sleep, right?  How about after the feeds a broken nap in two parts with A in the middle?  When Tracy talks about how much sleep they should have in the day, does it matter how they get it or is it just the total amount regardless of how many segments it takes place in?  I know this is a lot of questions, sorry, I just would like to get ideas of what others did or think.  Thanks.

[HeatherC]

It's okay to have a little bit of A time after S until the next E.  And while it will mean that she'll be ready for the next S sooner, you'll just have to go with the flow until she adjusts.  You might need to up her bedtime 30 mins to an hour b/c you don't want her to become overtired.  That might hurt her night sleep which in turn could hurt the next day's sleep.  It's all trial and error, and you never know, she might adjust just fine.
I personally think that two 2 hr naps and a catnap is the way to go.  Too much day sleep can lead to less night sleep, but that's not always the case.  Some babies need more sleep than others, and some need less.  It's really hard to say what she needs until you try a few things differently.  I hate to be so vague with my answer, but it's really a guessing game most of the time.  Of course, you can tweak the routine to suit your dd best (EASAE, EASASE) b/c the most important thing is that she sleeps independently of being fed (not feeding to sleep).  It's okay to think of it in overall amounts of sleep rather than when she sleeps.  Try a different routine for a few days, keep a log, and let us know what happens.  One or two days won't throw everything off track.  Besides, she's going to change so much and so often anyway.

[Jenna's Mum]

Thanks Heather, that helps a lot.  I never feed to sleep so I'm not worried about that, I'll just try the 4 hour EASY or something close to it and see how we go with naps.  Sometimes dd goes til 6am sleeping and other times only 4:30am, and I can't figure out why because some days we have "perfect" nap days and it's a 4:30am wake, and then other times I'll totally disrupt her sleep by having to take her somewhere in the evening and then she'll sleep til 6am!  Oh well, I'll see how we go, thanks again.

[Jenna's Mum]

OK so I tried implementing 4 hour EASY on Sat.  The first day went really well.  She can't quite stay awake for long enough yet but she had a broken nap in the morning... 45 mins then was wide awake so we had some A time, then I put her back down for another 1hr and 15 mins.  Anyway the whole day went really well and then slept until 6am that night.  Sunday wasn't so great because we went out to meet a friend for lunch and she doesn't seem to be able to nap so well in her carseat when we're running errands and whatnot, so she only got half an hour in the car because she was so tired.  So the rest of the day went downhill because of overtiredness.  Still she slept until 6am, with a brief waking at 4:30am because she got her hand free from the swaddle. 

So now it's Mon and so far so good except this morning at 7am she only ate 2oz.  It took half an hour to get her to eat 5.5oz at 11am, I don't understand why she's not hungrier.  Should I just keep going with the new routine and see if it irons itself out?

Thanks.

[HeatherC]

Sounds like you're moving right along.  Give her a few days to adjust to change, and if she doesn't seem to be adjusting, then you'll want to tweak it some more.  How was the rest of Monday?

[Jenna's Mum]

Yesterday was a cranky day... I think I figured out that she's good with the time between feeds but she still really needs 3 naps plus a catnap... so I'm just basically going to do a rough 3.5 hour EASY but pay less attention to the clock and just try to extend her awake time gently but get her down for a nap when she's tired.  Hopefully as she gets older each day and changes, she'll naturally extend the awake time with a little help and therefore extend her feed times.  We've been having a broken nap in the morning which has been working to extend her second feed 4 hours from the first but without her getting too much sleep so this is good.  I'll see how it goes today, thanks.

[Jenna's Mum]

Well today wasn't very good either.  I think it's too much for her to have a new routine so I'm thinking I'll step back a bit and just move her second two feeds of the day to be 15 mins later and then keep the others 3 hours apart.  I know she's not that hungry at the 3 hour mark but right now she is all out of sorts and doesn't know whether she's coming or going.  So my routine used to look like this:

E 7am
A 7:30 - 8:30
S 8:30 - 10
E 10
A 10:30 - 11:30
S 11:30 - 1pm
E 1pm
A 1:30 - 2:30
S 2:30 - 4
E 4
A 4:30 - 5
catnap 5-6-ish
E 7
A 7:30 bath
S 7:45

Now I'm thinking I'll adjust it for the next three days to be:

E 7am
A 7:30 - 8:45
S 8:45 - 10:15
E 10:15
A 10:45 - 12
S 12 - 1:30
E 1:30pm
A 2 - 3
S 3 - 4:30
E 4:30
A 5 - 6
catnap 6-6:30
E 7
A 7:30 bath
S 7:45

Do you think this might work?  After three days on that, do I continue to extend the two morning feeds or try working on the afternoon feeds 15 mins like the morning ones?

Thanks!   

[HeatherC]

THat looks like a great plan of action.  You are doing exactly right to pull back a bit to let her readjust.  By the way, your dd is a cutie!

[Beam79]

It took my ds nealry 2 months to transition from 3 to 4 hour easy-you are doing exactly thr right thing, just watch your LO and hang in there adjusting and tweaking where necessary. Now we are on 4 hour and it has all been worth it, so hang in there! Now facing the joys of solids and trying to fit them in!!