Sleep Cycles for Toddlers - Getting them through it. Help pls.

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Hi all,

I need some suggestions please. My 21 month old wakes up from her naps when she goes through her sleep cycle and she needs more sleep. If she is slightly overtired she wakes up screaming and it can take me a while to calm her down.

My problem is that I have a 3 month old who is almost always asleep and I don't want the screaming to wake him up. I know if I leave my DD she will calm herself down quicker if I am not in the room and often go back for another 30/40 minutes +. I know this isn't the BW style but if I get her up she even more upset.

I know mainly the reason she doesn't go through the sleep cycle is that she is overtired but I struggle to get her down earlier for her nap because of lunch time etc. Illness seems to have thrown us over the last 3/4 months.

At the moment I am just sticking to putting her down at the same time each day with the hope that it will correct itself once she gets enough sleep back. Obviously this will only work until the next time we go to grandparents for the day or another illness.

What do you do to get your children back on track? Can you use walk in / walk out (she doesn't get pu/pd anymore) to extend naps. Should I keep trying to get her back down?

Our day looks like this at the moment:

06:30 Starts to wake and chat but I won't get her until 7am (just my rule). She used to sleep until 8am which helped stop the overtiredness but of course the mornings are getting lighter.

730 / 800 Breakfast

10am Snack

12/1230 Lunch

130pm Put down for nap 1hr 40 mins (used to be 2hrs 20 when not struggling with overtiredness + I can't put her down until she has pooped)

3pm / 330 When the sleep cycle comes the screams come so it's CBeebies and a snack. She is still tired and really needs some more sleep

4-5pm When DD needs food I have to have it ready.

630 a biscuit  before bed then bath

7pm in bed.

[georgia's mama]

Hi, could you move your younger one away from your DD's room for naps - temporarily?  We need to let Georgia work it out for her self because like you said she only gets more upset when we go in.  She will wake often during her naps like your daughter.  It only takes a minute and it's that tired cry not hysterics.  Would a later bedtime work?  Then maybe she may extend her morning and have a later nap - not so tired?
This is our DD's schedule app.
 
7:30 ish  wake
8:00 breakie
12:00 lunch
12:30 nap (2-3 hrs)
6:00 supper
7:15 ish bath
8:00 bedtime

if she wakes before 7:00 we try to get her back down

Hopefully this helps.
Michele

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Thanks for your reply. It makes a lot of sense. Do you give Georgia any snacks? The only bit I am unsure of is that Lottie and Max both have their bath together at 630pm which does mean I get my evening from 7pm. What I might try is letting her come back down and read a story with us. That might make her feel like she is getting some 1 on 1 time to.

Cheers

J

[georgia's mama]

DD gets a snack around 10:00ish and 3:30ish.  When we moved to a later bedtime I had no idea what to do with her for that last 45 minutes...silly, I know but we sort of just sat around.  Now it goes by really quickly and hubbay and I can have some time alone after 8:00.  Also because she is so tired by then (but not overtired) I am pretty confident she will sleep through and at least until 7:00.  It also gives us a chance to do more things with her in the evening, especially now that summer is coming.

Just another thought...our DD has lately decided to to only nap for 2 or so hours instead of her previous 3 (heaven, I know) and sometimes it's not even 2.  I know that come 24 months they require, on average, less sleep than currently so I wonder if this is the start of it.  I wouldn't mind the 3 hours again though - here's hoping it's just a phase.

Let me know how it goes

Michele

[Carmela's Mom]

I don't think your bedtime is the problem, but that your nap is so late.  Anyway you can make it 12:30 instead of 1:30??  I think she'd be a lot less overtired by then and should be able to work through it.

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Ok Thanks.

DD didn't settle very well last night. The sudden clunk of the heating woke her up and it is right next to her room. I think she also needs some extra cuddles because of DS arriving but I am trying not to let this turn into attention time from mummy and daddy. Any how, I have given lunch at 12pm today. She has just pooped so will be in bed by 12.30. DS is struggling to get through his 45 min sleep cycle but blow it I am going to have to put her down before she gets passed it.

I'll keep you posted and will try and bring the nap forward. The trouble is sometimes she just chats but its worth a good go.

Thanks again.

J

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Oh so it's now over 2 hours since I put her down. I ended up giving DS a dummy just to keep him quiet and try and get him back on track because of his overtiredness. He stayed in his cot until his next feed so I actually got five minutes sit down :0)

Looks like that earlier put down has helped. I have also left the heating off because of the sudden clunking sound it makes when warming up, the only problem here is that I am freezing now.  I know if I put it on it will wake her up - she never seems to get used to it. Also it is really dark here today and I know that helps her sleep better.

DH went to the shops to order the black out blinds ready for summer for both the childrens rooms. If it gives me an extra sleep cycle for both of them, then it's worth it.

It would be nice if it was just the early put down that did the trick. I am going to give up the music activity on Wednesday to see if I can get a week of good  day time sleeps.

Cheers

J

p.s I'll keep this updated just in case some else has the same problem. Nothing worse on this site not knowing how people got on when they tried x, y or z.

[imsmum]

Yes--please do keep us posted. Also curious about if the earlier naptime works.

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Ok. The sleep cycle thing is still happening although my priority has changed for the last couple of days because DD seems to thing that she can wake up to get a little more attention from us. First night I thought it was pain or something, second night I didn't take any chances and gave some pain relief in case. Didn't make any difference she was having us on wanting a "cuddle". On the third night DH and I agreed we thought it was a game and nothing else so we did "put down with her" and didn't give any attention. Fortunately she tried it at bedtime and not at 2/4am like day 1 and 2. It seems to have got better. Lets just hope that she stays down tonight.

On the sleep cycle front. I think that the weather here makes a huge difference. If the sun shines in her window she doesn't get through the sleep cycle. I think this is certainly one variable.

Hopefully with a bit more sleep and getting her down earlier it will get back on track. I was wondering at one point if she was having too much sleep but juding by the amount of sleep all the other toddlers are having she still should need her 2hours +.

Forgive me if I don't update straight away.

J.

p.s also trying to sort out bedtime now as the clocks have just changed.

[sacmommy]

I'm glad you're getting the black-out blinds - I think I need to get those too! My 4-yo has been getting up around 5:30 a.m. off and on for the past week!!!

For the nap sleep cycle, I remember reading in one of Tracy's books to go in before the sleep cycle ends and put your hand on her back. So if she's getting up at the same time from nap each time, you might try that. It might only work for younger kids though - I think my dd would just get excited I was there and want to get up!

They definitely still need the hours! When my dd naps, she naps at least 2 1/2 hours, usually more. I think it's closer to three when their sleep needs wane.

Finally, if you think she needs more attention and cuddles, why not add it to your schedule? When the baby is sleeping, read her a book or 2 while she's sitting close or on your nap, or whatever you can think of that would make her feel special. I'm sure you're doing what you can, but it's such a whirlwind with a new baby!

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Cheers. Thanks for replying.

I was just wondering if the balance of day and night sleep changes to although them to still have a nap in the day. A normal night is 11.5 to 12 hours. Some of the toddler routines I noticed that the night time hours was around 10.5. What's your thoughts on night time sleep?

Thanks J

[sacmommy]

You could be right. I think my dd sleeps about 11 hours average at night, and then naps 2-3 hours (I usually wake her around the 2.5 hr mark).

[alyssa1]

Hi Julie,
I just have one quesiton - does your lo go down for naps nicely or is it a struggle?  Mine struggles so we let him get probably too tired and then it's terrible.  Can I ask what you do to get the nap to happen?  If I put mine down too early then he won't nap at all - I guess maybe I can't find that happy medium time?

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Hi ya,

The answer to whether she struggles to get herself off for naps: not normally. Sometimes she can chat for 10/15 mins.

As with all these things what I think is happening changes like the wind.

Yesterday I phoned the health visitor because I got fed up with not understanding what was going on (the day time behaviour has got worse and worse). I have started to take DD's temperature and there is definately something going on perhaps teething perhaps something else.

I started to think that her behaviour during the day which could be so negative was just being almost 2 and also the arrival of her baby brother but I am not so sure now. We've started having night wakings as well but I didn't want to give medicine just for the sake of it if I wasn't sure she was feeling under the weather.

Anyhow, with a comibation of strict boundaries and some medicine we seem to be getting somewhere. Last night she sleep through and today she had more than 2 hours. She's been so happy today. I have no idea why.

Another thing that happened the last few nights is that when she gets in the bath she cries to get out as if she's in pain. On Monday I am going to take her to the doctors for a check up and make sure she hasn't got some infection.

If anyone is interested I posted a poll under Toddler sleep to find out how much 2 yr olds were getting in 24 hrs. The average seems to be 12-14 hours. I could be wrong but it seems that this is the age that everyone starts adjusting the bedtimes in order to make sure the children still have naps.

Hopefully things will settle down.

Will update again soon.

J

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

HAHAHAH,

I told you that I change my views like the wind. Lottie was put down at 730ish. She's been chatting for over an hour so her long sleep might not be needed!!!!!!

Mmmm interesting!!!!