sleep now all over the map-why and how do I deal with this?

[imsmum]

After transitioning from 2 to 1 nap a few months back Margot  was having problems with early waking with occasional night waking and an occasional sleep thru of 10 to 11 hours but if anything her sleep has gotten worse again. We now have such a jumble I don't know what to expect.  A typical week will look like this:

Monday: sleep 7:30-6, nap 12:30 to 2
Tuesday: sleep 7:30 to 1, awake 1-4, sleep 4 to 7:30, nap 12:30-2:15
Wednesday: sleep 7 to 3:30, awake 3:30-6, sleep 6-7, nap12:30-3
Thursday:sleep 7:00-5, nap 12:15-1:40
Friday:sleep 8:30-5:20, nap 12:45-2
Saturday:sleep 7-11 awake11-2 sleep 2-6, nap12:20-1:50
Sunday: sleep 7:45-5:20, nap12:20-2:45

She never really gets more than 11.5 hours sleep/day and it can often be much less. We try to be consistent with 6:15 starting wind down for the night and taking her up for her nap around 12:15.  She usually goes down for her nap within 10 minutes but night can be variable--between  10 minutes and 1 hour but usually with 15-40 minutes. she has had a cold and canines in the last few weeks but she's over these now yet we still have this terrible sleep pattern.  She used to wake up( in the morning, at night etc) and be content to just chatter away but she wakes up now crying and miserable, and no amount of pd etc seems to get her back to sleep.  It seems like she's gotten into another cycle of overtiredness--so easy for her with the short sleep from early rising. 

So how do I handle this---keep with the consistent nap and bedtimes?  I can move her nap up but can't let her nap past 3 b/c of needing to pick up her sister from school.  I work so I can't really do an earlier wind down than 6:15.  Regarding w/u I pretty much let her sleep as long as she can. Any other suggestions?

[Harrisonsmummy]

Oh my God, you are having a time of it, I really feel sorry for you and poor Margot! You have got to get her topped up with sleep - is there any way you can get two naps into her for a couple of days, and increase her down time? Rocking? Anything at all to break the cycle?

Failing that, I would go for an earlier nap, and make bedtime as early as you possibly can, when they are that tired it seems better to get them ready in 15 minutes than string it out and have them even more tired! Harrison is a nightmare to get to sleep if he is overtired, if neccessary I hover in the room to get him down quicker.

Margot may only take a couple of days of this to get her sleep back on track.

Good luck.

justine

[imsmum]

Thanks Justine--Knew I could count on you to keep me from throwing in the towel!!

When Margot was transitioning to one nap I would stand next to her with my hand on her if necessary to help her settle more quickly but it seemed to cause a dependence so I've been a bit cautious about doing too much of that but it looks like I need to go down that road again.  She has never done 2 naps for me since she transitioned (even when she would wake for the day at 4:30 ) so not too optimistic on that one.  She just always seems to be on the verge on overtiredness so that the least thing sends her down this spiral.  Stop the ride!!

Maybe the earlier nap would work.  I've been afraid to do that one in case she has her usual short nap and needs to go to bed early, as I'm already winding her down shortly after I come home from work but I'll have to try to arrange to leave work early for a couple of days in case that happens.  Have you tried an earlier bedtime/naptime for Harri?  Any luck with the early waking?

Has anyone had any luck extending naptime/improving night sleep by shifting the nap a bit earlier?  With the time changing maybe it would be a good time to try this.

[Harrisonsmummy]

I know what you mean about the dependence, but I think the sleep thing takes precedence! Harrison has been sleeping through until 6am so seems to be stretching out a bit longer now - but I did try wake to sleep on Friday - so he was up at 5am instead of 5.30am. Won't be trying that again in a hurry!

I have just been getting him down as soon as possible for naps - 12ish, then in bed by 6.45pm. This seems to have got him through it, we are now just pushing bedtimes slightly later to see how they pan out, I am still up at 5.30am though!

This is a bit contraversial and may not work for you for various reasons, but I did give Harri medised for a couple of nights when he was going through a bad patch (the time before last!) I figured it could be his teeth ( in retrospect it wasn't) but it did get him to sleep quickly for a couple of nights and most of the way through the night, if not the whole night. That was enough to bump his sleep up and give us a fighting chance by juggling naps etc. I also took advantage of DH being home earlier on a Friday, giving me three days to do early naps and bedtimes over the weekend. (I was a complete nagging shrew over it - but it did work!)

I also rigged up a chair in Harri's room, and when he woke settled down in there, he went off quicker, and actually I dozed off better in his room, than straining my ears for the next wake-up down the hallway.

Will keep fingers crossed for you.

Justine

[imsmum]

Glad to hear you've made some progress!

Well last night Margot woke with a scream at 12:30 and I rushed in as quickly and quietly as possible.  It turns out that she had her head wedged in the corner of the crib.  I quickly pulled  her back from the corner and put my hand on her to settle her and she was back to sleep in a few minutes.  In fact I think I got to her before she was fully awake.  She woke up at 5:15 but I'd rather she have an early wake up than night wakings.  Think I'll be sleeping with my bathrobe on from here on in!

So you found that the earlier naptimes/bedtimes helped?  Did the naps extend at all? I think I'll need to wait to try this because of the difficulty getting away from work any earlier ( how guilty do I feel about that one ).  Hopefully I can coordinate around the time change.  Haven't quite worked the details yet though.  Have you any plans on how you will deal with the time change? 

ps know what you mean about the meds!  She slept better when she had her cold than normally.  Now that her sister has one I guess it would be wrong of me to let Margot drink from her sister's cup ...

 

[Harrisonsmummy]

Morning! Harrison woke at 11.15pm last night and took 30 minutes to re-settle - so i thought that we were in for a night of it...but he slept in until 5.45am! I think though, that I put him down for a nap at 12pm and he woke just before 2pm - after a good run around the garden he was knackered - so overtired by bedtime...blah...blah...plus another canine!

Anyway enough rambling here - I think that you said Margot sounded a bit like Harri - he can tolerate a longer morning...so when he wakes at 5.30ish I keep him up until 12.15 - 12.30 if I can. Give him his lunch, then he crashes for 1 3/4hours. We have had a couple of 2hrs - but these may be a fluke! I think that the pm awake time is the key - and I try and get him down as early as possible, which seems to help. That's where the cold meds helped too - 3.5 hours awake time and an easy bedtime makes a huge difference!

But I work backwards from bedtime and estimated end of nap time, so if neccessary he is awake longer in the morning. I haven't found any particular correlation between am awake time and length of nap.

I am still hoping that the early wake-ups will gradually extend themselves, I think they are - or maybe I am just used t them now. Harrison is now waking up and playing (loudly) rather than crying immediately for attention - so that I consider to be progress....(anything to cling onto...)

Justine

[rach]

Hi there

Sorry to hear that you're having such a bad time of it.  I agree with what has already been said, that standing quietly with them and resting a hand on them to settle them back to sleep is a good way to go.

When your little one is awake in the night, is she wide awake/playful or upset/cranky?  Its great if standing quietly with her is doing the trick.  Keep us posted with how you get on.

Rachel xx

[imsmum]

Tried to reply earlier but was caught by server problems. 

Happy to report some improvement here.  Four nights ago Margot woke up screaming at 12:30.  I went into her right away because it's unusual for Margot to be upset when she wakes in the night. It took until 3:30 to get her down.  The next night she woke again at 12:30 with a scream.  I was in there before she even finished the scream and realized that her head was wedged in the corner of the crib.  I quickly pulled her out and lay my hand on her and she was off to sleep in a few minutes and slept until 5:30!  I think she never fully woke up because normally when I do go to her and put my hand on her it still takes at least an hour--usually more-- for her to drift off again.

The last 2 nights I've been staying beside her longer when I put her in her crib at night, laying my hand on her initally then moving away from the crib so she can't see me (it's very dark in her room)but not going out the door (it's closed so normally she knows when I leave).  She's fallen asleep around 7:30 and slept through until 5:30--a solid 10 hours which is great for her.  Her naps are still around12:15-12:30 for 1 1/2 hours.  Not great by most standards but Margot has ALWAYS  slept about 1 hour less than average so I figure that's the "normal " for her.  It's when her sleep is less than that that I really worry..

Margot is a spirited lo and I know she has trouble with transitions but I've always been reluctant to hang around her bed after I put her in because we still rock a little bit before that to help get her sleepy and I didn't want to interupt that drifting off process.  Thinking about it though it's been ages since she was actually in that drifting state when I put her in the crib--most of the time she is pretty awake.  It's amazing how ingrained the routine becomes so that you do things automatically!  Given that she is fairly awake when I put her in the crib it looks like I need to spend a few minutes just quietly standing there to help her transition to the crib and get settled.  I know that not leaving the room  is going to be a problem I'll have to deal with later but for now I just want to get her back on a routine of sleeping well for a while!