Not enough info. for going beyond 4hr EASY

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

I feel kind of lost right now as I am working on Extending Gage beyond the 4hr EASY. I feel like I am missing some much needed direction/advice as to where we need to end up in the next couple of months. There seemed to be a path before moving from a 3hr to a 4hr, EASY but everything seems so foggy now. I am working on extending Gage's A time beyond 2hrs, but I am unsure how this will affect his meals and naps etc.. Where will we end up? I just dont want to get off track as it has been a rough road this far.

[LŠuren]

Gagesmom
DS is a couple of weeks younger than Gage, we are on 4.5 EASY

Wake 0700
E 0730 7/8oz
   0815 cereal & fruit
A
S anywhere between 9 & 10am , usually 1.5 – 2hrs
A usually back to A, depending on nap.

E 1200 6/7oz
   1245 Veggies 4 ice-cubes, big or small + yogurt & fruit
A
S Could be 2 or 3 hours depends from when he woke from last nap – usually 1.5 -2hrs
A usually back to A, depending on nap.

E 1600/1630 6/7oz
   1645 Veggies & meat.
A
S catnap ONLY if he gets up early from his last nap before 3pm, he can manage to stay  awake from 3pm to bedtime @ 8pm.
A

E 1900 10/12oz bottle - split
A Bath 1920
E 1940 last part of feed
S in cot sleeping for 8pm.
no d/f

[Johno & Aurelias Mum]

I found book three helpful for this as it gave some sample routines for beyond the 4 hour easy.

[Nikki~Nathanamp;Danielle]

What I did was remain on 4hr EASY even when solids were well established (ie up to 3 solid meals a day). So she was having 4 breastfeeds 7,11,3,7, and solids around 8,12,5pm then when she hit 9-10mths started to get less interested in the 11am feed, so I pushed it out till around 11.30-12pm and dropped the 3pm feed. I found it a lot easier than switching from 3-4hrly because with solids in there your baby is not going to be waiting for food for long between milk and solids. Then you can introduce a snack in place of the dropped feed.

HTH

[Nicola_G]

The key to beyond the 4 hour EASY is twofold - solids, and sleep (shorter naps, and dropping the catnap). You will find that Gage needs less sleep soon and will probably not want/need the catnap soon. This is your key to reformulating your schedule into something which resembles EAEASY. The other thing is that (in my experience) the road from about 6 months to 7.5 months is one of trial and error, where you gradually work out a routine which suits your lo.

In our case, here is the routine we have finally settled on at almost 8 months:

6.30  E (solids)
7.00  A (drive to childcare/work)
8.00  E (bf)
8.15  A (childcare-play)
9.30  E (solids)
10.00 S
11.15 A
11.45 E (solids)
12.15 A
13.30 E (bottle)
14.00 A
14.30 S
16.00 E (bottle)
16.30 A (includes driving home)
18.30 E (solids)
19.30 S (bed)
21.30 E (df)

You will need to work out your schedule as it suits you and Gage, but it will become clear soon! Just read his cues for sleep and everything else will fall into place.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Thanks for the sample routines, they really help. Gage is ready to move to longer A times because his 2nd nap has gone from 2hrs to 45min. Also, Gage is waking earlier in the morning which make extending his first A time hard. He has gone from 7:15 ish to 6:00 I am okay with whatever his biorythm is, but it seems that it gets earlier and earlier. I think he is needing less night sleep, but I am unsure how to tweek his routine. Here is yesterday's routine;

6:45 wake (this morning was 6am)
7:00 eat
8:00 solids
9:00 sleep (this morning only slept an hour. The naps are just getting shorter!)

10:30 wake
11:00 eat
12:00 solids
1:00 sleep

1:45 wake
3:00 eat
4:20 sleep

5:00 wake
5:20 eat (we split the bedtime bottle, it seems to work) 4oz
6:00 solids
bath
bedtime routine 4oz
7:20 sleep

He jsut started sleeping through knock on wood!

[HeatherC]

If you think he's ready to drop that 3rd nap, you could start the 2nd nap a little later, and put him to bed earlier while he adjusts.  It seems like with the short 2nd and 3rd naps and the earlier wakings that he might be leaning toward that.  Another trick that works with some babies to lenghten naps back out is to put them down for the first nap 1-1.5 hrs after waking in the morning.  For most, this is the best time to get some good sleep.  You'd have to tweak your feedings and probably offer milk and solids together, and tweak the rest of the day's naps and feedings, but it's just a temporary adjustment to see if he will lengthen his naps.  It worked for my dd and she started taking 2 x 2hr naps at 6 mos.  Just a thought.  I know this wasn't really a nap post, but day sleep often improves night sleep, so I thought I would throw that out there.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Thanks for the nap tips. It comes at the perfect time as I have been asking around for possible solutions. If I shorten his A time wont that make his naps shorter as he wont be as tired as he should be?

[Nicola_G]

Its not that he needs less night sleep, but less day sleep. Try HeatherC's suggestion with the 3rd nap and you may find that he sorts out his mornings. But I wouldn't be changing the nighttime routine/sleep time as he still needs a good block of sleep.

This is also where the 45 minute nap monster may come out of the closet until Gage adjusts to his new routine. My only advice to you is to go with it, he should be up and down for maybe 6-8 weeks but things will stabilise. You just need to be sympathetic to the fact that he's making a big developmental shift with going to 2 naps a day.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Okay ladies I am so ready to get rid of the catnap. I wanted to try extending his A time a bit more to see if that would help, and it DIDNT. He was awake for 2hrs 40 min for his first A time, and I think he was overtired as he woke after 20 min and then went back to sleep for another hour. The second A time was 2hr 40min and still 1hr and 10min nap! Oh boy was he a crab pants by te end of the day!!!! I ended up skipping the catnap and putting him to bed at 6pm. I hope that doesnt come back and bite me tonigt: Now, he is also waking up during the night AGAIN! Just when things start going well 


Anyway, if I shorten his first A time to 1.5 wont he be undertired and still not sleep long? Excuse my ignorance, but how will this help the rest of the day?

[HeatherC]

All you can do is try different things.  I know it sounds ridiculous to have a shorter A time to lengthen naps, but many babies have their best sleep after a good night's sleep.  I tried putting my dd down for her first nap 1 hr after waking and it set her on the road to taking 2 x 2 hr naps.  As for his naps still be short despite the longer A time, it will just take his body some time to adjust.  He got in a rhythm of shorter naps, so as with any change give him a few days to adjust to the new time frames.  It happens this way, too, when you go from 2 naps to 1.  Although we're not there yet, I've been studying, and even though the lo will be staying awake for much longer, they won't automatically sleep for 3 hrs, they have to build up to it.
Putting him to bed earlier shouldn't cause problems during the night or cause him to wake earlier.  In fact, he needs to go to bed earlier to make up for the lost sleep.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Thanks for the advice Heather. I will try my best to make this work. I tried to putting him to bed after 1.5 and he slept for 1.5 ( woke after an hour and went back to sleep for the remainder). I was suprised at how fast and easy he went to sleep. I thought he wouldnt be tired enough. His second A time was mserable. He wanted to go to sleep between 1.5 and 2hrs after being up. I have no idea what is going on..... except I am mentally exhausted. He has just been a bear these last couple of days. Thanks for the help. 

[HeatherC]

Just try to step back and relax.  I've been there when I thought the world was crumbling down around me when dd didn't nap well (oh, well, I still do that at almost 14 mos  ), but you'll both get through this.  A time of 2 hrs is pretty typical of a 6 mo old, but since you're trying to push him back to a "normal" naptime after the early morning nap, take it slowly like in 10-15 min increments.  Hold him off with a walk around the house or something, or very low key activity like reading books in a dim room.  He may start to doze off, but that's okay b/c you don't want him to be overtired.  Make up any lost sleep time with an earlier bedtime for awhile until he adjust.  If his morning nap begins to lengthen, and hopefully the afternoon nap, move them back to regular time slots and see how he does.
Also, you should go to bed early or nap when he does so that you can feel refreshed and stay healthy.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

His second nap was 2.5 hrs and I woke him up. I thought if I let him sleep a little longer it would carry him through to an early bedtime (3hrs), but he still needed a catnap. Now it is a matter of too much sleep. Today he had about 4.5 hrs. Maybe he is not ready for all of this yet. I shouldnt have messed with all of this. I started extending A time because he was waking earlier and earlier and I was worried that if I didnt do something now that the whole routine would be ruined. A lot of good that did. Poor kid, I just dont know what I am doing.

[Nicola_G]

Gage's mum,

Don't beat yourself up. The thing which struck me when my lo was 6 months was how much of a stab in the dark it all was. I ended up going with his sleep cues (remember that Tracey does say that whilst you should have a routine, it is NOT a schedule, and you need to be flexible to what your lo needs) and sometimes that meant going to nap in the am only 1.5 hours after getting up for the day. But what you will notice is that if you do this, he will be more refreshed after waking = better A time = better 2nd nap = etc.

Also remember that his naps will most likely shorten around this age as well as dropping the catnap (I freaked when I was going through this because it seemed so much less than he was getting before, but trust me here) so beware of letting him sleep much beyond 2 hours in any one nap because it will screw up your night.

So confusing, isn't it?! But go with HIS cues, and you can't go wrong. Heck, you might even go for 3-4 short naps per day while he adjusts, just try not to be too freaked out by it all.

Also, a couple of things which struck me when reading back through this thread:

- Has Gage started solids? With the additional feeding (usually solids 1 hour after each milk feed), this works quite well for stringing out their A time - they like the solids, they are hungry with their additional activity level, and they tend to be able to hang on a bit longer on their A time when eating etc.
- Have you eliminated the df or did you never do it? I still have a df with my ds and I am sure it really helps with sleeping right through.
- No point introducing df now if you never did it before, but to compensate for the calories, maybe tank him up at bedtime with a big solid meal and a full milk feed as well.

HTH