Author Topic: Not enough info. for going beyond 4hr EASY (Read 5685 times)

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **on:** March 23, 2006, 06:22:18 am »

I feel kind of lost right now as I am working on Extending Gage beyond the 4hr EASY. I feel like I am missing some much needed direction/advice as to where we need to end up in the next couple of months. There seemed to be a path before moving from a 3hr to a 4hr, EASY but everything seems so foggy now. I am working on extending Gage's A time beyond 2hrs, but I am unsure how this will affect his meals and naps etc.. Where will we end up? I just dont want to get off track as it has been a rough road this far.

Lªuren · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2006, 08:14:45 am »

Gagesmom
DS is a couple of weeks younger than Gage, we are on 4.5 EASY

Wake 0700
E 0730 7/8oz
0815 cereal & fruit
A
S anywhere between 9 & 10am , usually 1.5 – 2hrs
A usually back to A, depending on nap.

E 1200 6/7oz
1245 Veggies 4 ice-cubes, big or small + yogurt & fruit
A
S Could be 2 or 3 hours depends from when he woke from last nap – usually 1.5 -2hrs
A usually back to A, depending on nap.

E 1600/1630 6/7oz
1645 Veggies & meat.
A
S catnap ONLY if he gets up early from his last nap before 3pm, he can manage to stay awake from 3pm to bedtime @ 8pm.
A

E 1900 10/12oz bottle - split
A Bath 1920
E 1940 last part of feed
S in cot sleeping for 8pm.
no d/f

Johno & Aurelias Mum · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2006, 08:20:50 am »

I found book three helpful for this as it gave some sample routines for beyond the 4 hour easy.

Nikki~Nathanamp;Danielle · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2006, 08:55:29 am »

What I did was remain on 4hr EASY even when solids were well established (ie up to 3 solid meals a day). So she was having 4 breastfeeds 7,11,3,7, and solids around 8,12,5pm then when she hit 9-10mths started to get less interested in the 11am feed, so I pushed it out till around 11.30-12pm and dropped the 3pm feed. I found it a lot easier than switching from 3-4hrly because with solids in there your baby is not going to be waiting for food for long between milk and solids. Then you can introduce a snack in place of the dropped feed.

HTH

Nicola_G · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2006, 10:29:09 am »

The key to beyond the 4 hour EASY is twofold - solids, and sleep (shorter naps, and dropping the catnap). You will find that Gage needs less sleep soon and will probably not want/need the catnap soon. This is your key to reformulating your schedule into something which resembles EAEASY. The other thing is that (in my experience) the road from about 6 months to 7.5 months is one of trial and error, where you gradually work out a routine which suits your lo.

In our case, here is the routine we have finally settled on at almost 8 months:

6.30 E (solids)
7.00 A (drive to childcare/work)
8.00 E (bf)
8.15 A (childcare-play)
9.30 E (solids)
10.00 S
11.15 A
11.45 E (solids)
12.15 A
13.30 E (bottle)
14.00 A
14.30 S
16.00 E (bottle)
16.30 A (includes driving home)
18.30 E (solids)
19.30 S (bed)
21.30 E (df)

You will need to work out your schedule as it suits you and Gage, but it will become clear soon! Just read his cues for sleep and everything else will fall into place.

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2006, 17:24:31 pm »

Thanks for the sample routines, they really help. Gage is ready to move to longer A times because his 2nd nap has gone from 2hrs to 45min. Also, Gage is waking earlier in the morning which make extending his first A time hard. He has gone from 7:15 ish to 6:00

I am okay with whatever his biorythm is, but it seems that it gets earlier and earlier. I think he is needing less night sleep, but I am unsure how to tweek his routine. Here is yesterday's routine;

6:45 wake (this morning was 6am)
7:00 eat
8:00 solids
9:00 sleep (this morning only slept an hour. The naps are just getting shorter!)

10:30 wake
11:00 eat
12:00 solids
1:00 sleep

1:45 wake
3:00 eat
4:20 sleep

5:00 wake
5:20 eat (we split the bedtime bottle, it seems to work) 4oz
6:00 solids
bath
bedtime routine 4oz
7:20 sleep

He jsut started sleeping through

knock on wood!

HeatherC · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2006, 01:10:32 am »

If you think he's ready to drop that 3rd nap, you could start the 2nd nap a little later, and put him to bed earlier while he adjusts. It seems like with the short 2nd and 3rd naps and the earlier wakings that he might be leaning toward that. Another trick that works with some babies to lenghten naps back out is to put them down for the first nap 1-1.5 hrs after waking in the morning. For most, this is the best time to get some good sleep. You'd have to tweak your feedings and probably offer milk and solids together, and tweak the rest of the day's naps and feedings, but it's just a temporary adjustment to see if he will lengthen his naps. It worked for my dd and she started taking 2 x 2hr naps at 6 mos. Just a thought. I know this wasn't really a nap post, but day sleep often improves night sleep, so I thought I would throw that out there.

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2006, 03:08:24 am »

Thanks for the nap tips. It comes at the perfect time as I have been asking around for possible solutions. If I shorten his A time wont that make his naps shorter as he wont be as tired as he should be?

Nicola_G · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2006, 10:22:08 am »

Its not that he needs less night sleep, but less day sleep. Try HeatherC's suggestion with the 3rd nap and you may find that he sorts out his mornings. But I wouldn't be changing the nighttime routine/sleep time as he still needs a good block of sleep.

This is also where the 45 minute nap monster may come out of the closet until Gage adjusts to his new routine. My only advice to you is to go with it, he should be up and down for maybe 6-8 weeks but things will stabilise. You just need to be sympathetic to the fact that he's making a big developmental shift with going to 2 naps a day.

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2006, 04:47:25 am »

Okay ladies I am so ready to get rid of the catnap. I wanted to try extending his A time a bit more to see if that would help, and it DIDNT. He was awake for 2hrs 40 min for his first A time, and I think he was overtired as he woke after 20 min and then went back to sleep for another hour. The second A time was 2hr 40min and still 1hr and 10min nap! Oh boy was he a crab pants by te end of the day!!!! I ended up skipping the catnap and putting him to bed at 6pm. I hope that doesnt come back and bite me tonigt:

Now, he is also waking up during the night AGAIN! Just when things start going well

Anyway, if I shorten his first A time to 1.5 wont he be undertired and still not sleep long? Excuse my ignorance, but how will this help the rest of the day?

HeatherC · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2006, 19:39:17 pm »

All you can do is try different things. I know it sounds ridiculous to have a shorter A time to lengthen naps, but many babies have their best sleep after a good night's sleep. I tried putting my dd down for her first nap 1 hr after waking and it set her on the road to taking 2 x 2 hr naps. As for his naps still be short despite the longer A time, it will just take his body some time to adjust. He got in a rhythm of shorter naps, so as with any change give him a few days to adjust to the new time frames. It happens this way, too, when you go from 2 naps to 1. Although we're not there yet, I've been studying, and even though the lo will be staying awake for much longer, they won't automatically sleep for 3 hrs, they have to build up to it.
Putting him to bed earlier shouldn't cause problems during the night or cause him to wake earlier. In fact, he needs to go to bed earlier to make up for the lost sleep.

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2006, 20:27:25 pm »

Thanks for the advice Heather. I will try my best to make this work. I tried to putting him to bed after 1.5 and he slept for 1.5 ( woke after an hour and went back to sleep for the remainder). I was suprised at how fast and easy he went to sleep. I thought he wouldnt be tired enough. His second A time was mserable. He wanted to go to sleep between 1.5 and 2hrs after being up. I have no idea what is going on..... except I am mentally exhausted. He has just been a bear these last couple of days. Thanks for the help.

HeatherC · « **Reply #12 on:** March 26, 2006, 21:15:10 pm »

Just try to step back and relax. I've been there when I thought the world was crumbling down around me when dd didn't nap well (oh, well, I still do that at almost 14 mos $:-\$ ), but you'll both get through this. A time of 2 hrs is pretty typical of a 6 mo old, but since you're trying to push him back to a "normal" naptime after the early morning nap, take it slowly like in 10-15 min increments. Hold him off with a walk around the house or something, or very low key activity like reading books in a dim room. He may start to doze off, but that's okay b/c you don't want him to be overtired. Make up any lost sleep time with an earlier bedtime for awhile until he adjust. If his morning nap begins to lengthen, and hopefully the afternoon nap, move them back to regular time slots and see how he does.
Also, you should go to bed early or nap when he does so that you can feel refreshed and stay healthy.

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2006, 03:47:45 am »

His second nap was 2.5 hrs

and I woke him up. I thought if I let him sleep a little longer it would carry him through to an early bedtime (3hrs), but he still needed a catnap. Now it is a matter of too much sleep. Today he had about 4.5 hrs. Maybe he is not ready for all of this yet. I shouldnt have messed with all of this. I started extending A time because he was waking earlier and earlier and I was worried that if I didnt do something now that the whole routine would be ruined. A lot of good that did.

Poor kid, I just dont know what I am doing.

Nicola_G · « **Reply #14 on:** March 27, 2006, 09:27:05 am »

Gage's mum,

Don't beat yourself up. The thing which struck me when my lo was 6 months was how much of a stab in the dark it all was. I ended up going with his sleep cues (remember that Tracey does say that whilst you should have a routine, it is NOT a schedule, and you need to be flexible to what your lo needs) and sometimes that meant going to nap in the am only 1.5 hours after getting up for the day. But what you will notice is that if you do this, he will be more refreshed after waking = better A time = better 2nd nap = etc.

Also remember that his naps will most likely shorten around this age as well as dropping the catnap (I freaked when I was going through this because it seemed so much less than he was getting before, but trust me here) so beware of letting him sleep much beyond 2 hours in any one nap because it will screw up your night.

So confusing, isn't it?! But go with HIS cues, and you can't go wrong. Heck, you might even go for 3-4 short naps per day while he adjusts, just try not to be too freaked out by it all.

Also, a couple of things which struck me when reading back through this thread:

- Has Gage started solids? With the additional feeding (usually solids 1 hour after each milk feed), this works quite well for stringing out their A time - they like the solids, they are hungry with their additional activity level, and they tend to be able to hang on a bit longer on their A time when eating etc.
- Have you eliminated the df or did you never do it? I still have a df with my ds and I am sure it really helps with sleeping right through.
- No point introducing df now if you never did it before, but to compensate for the calories, maybe tank him up at bedtime with a big solid meal and a full milk feed as well.

HTH

Lªuren · « **Reply #15 on:** March 27, 2006, 12:35:00 pm »

Gage'smom
what does your new routine look like? Ours has also changed again since I last posted on this thread and has definatley dropped the catnap.

lauren

HeatherC · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2006, 14:42:20 pm »

Great point about the solids. It does help break up the A time and give an extra boost of energy to stay awake longer. All I can remember at 6 mos was that dd was on this schedule:
wake 8 am
nap 10-12
nap 2-4
bed 7:30-8 pm
So 4 hrs of day sleep is not necessarily too much. I'm so happy Gage had a good second nap the other day, maybe things will start turning around for you. You're doing absolutely fine!

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #17 on:** March 27, 2006, 17:23:01 pm »

Hi Heather! Thanks so much for helping me. Gage is on solids and we do have them about an hour after the bottle, and we have never really stuck to the dream feed. I think he just wakes because of too much sleep, so that is why I started to increase A time. I just panicked a little because we were never on a 3hr easy as far as A time and s time, and as a result he was up ALL night. I just didnt want that to happen again. I put him down after 2hrs this morning and so far good as gold! I think I will just go back to our old set up and follow him for the flexibility piece. Since he istill has a catnap most days, should I limit his naps to 1.5 hrs?

HeatherC · « **Reply #18 on:** March 27, 2006, 18:30:41 pm »

Gage's Mom, I'd love to know your real name

. Anyway, let him nap as he wants to, then watch him for how sleepy his is around catnap time. Then, according to what time it is in relation to bedtime, try to judge about how much sleep might get him through until bedtime.

KellyC · « **Reply #19 on:** March 27, 2006, 21:18:36 pm »

Hi Alice

I've been wondering recently how you're getting on - remember those dark and tearful days when every nap was a 45 minute nap, at least we're doing a little better now!

I'm still trying to find a routine that suits Zander in terms of getting 2 good naps. This is what we're aiming for;

Wake and BF 7am
Solids 8.30am
Nap 9.30am to 11am
BF 11.30am
Solids 1pm
Nap 2pm to 3.30pm
BF 3.30pm
Solids 5pm
BF 6.30pm
Bed 7pm

He seems to be happy to take a 1.5 hour nap in the morning (I was interested to hear about putting them back down after only 1.5 hours - sounds good but I don't think I'll risk losing this good nap at the moment!). We're still generally getting a 45 minute pm nap though but somehow he's happy to go through until bedtime without a catnap or he just catches 10 minutes if we're out in the car. The solids do break it up a little and I guess they give him some more energy too.

It would be good to hear back how you're getting on and perhaps we can yet again find solutions to our nap problems!

Kelly x

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #20 on:** March 28, 2006, 05:23:13 am »

Hi Zandersmummy! It is so nice to hear from you again. I was wondering how you and Zander have been doing. Gosh I know I am glad that things are better than before. Sometimes, when I am feeling low I look back at my earlier posts and feel better.

Right now our issues are early wakenings (from 7 to 6am) and 1 middle of night wakening (just started again). Calum's mom how did you know it was time to ditch the catnap and how and when did you do this?

Here is todays routine. We have finally made it the 4hr EASY.

6:30 wake and play (or should I say grunt and yodle) in crib
7:00 eat 7oz
8:00 solids (hardly any as I think he is teething. He didnt want anything in his all day and VERY whiny)
8:30 sleep with ease

10:30 woke him
11:00 Eat 60z
12:00 solids (no food today)
12:30 sleep ( Very grumpy)

2:00 wake
3:00 eat 7oz
4:00 catnap (really needed it)

4:30 wake
5:30 6oz
6:00 solids
Bedtime routine 6oz
7pm sleep

He has been waking between 2-3am because he is unswaddled and/or stuck in the bars (any suggestions for this?).

Ladies what is the total number of daytime hours does you lo sleep?

Thanks. Oh, my name is Alice. Kind of old fashion I know, but I am just turning 30 honest. My pic is in the lounge forum I think.

Lªuren · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2006, 06:18:45 am »

Alice - Calums naps are about approx 3hrs now, give or take 30mins on good/bad days.

CAlum was up at 0630 today, so much for daylight savings help me! Not to worry it will be 0630 for me from Monday anyway.

I also used to swaddle Calum until Kelly (Zandersmummy) came up with another suggestion. I now put him in a grobag and swaddle his arms only. There are some naps where I let his left hand out, depending on his mood. He was breakingout his swaddle at all time during the night and I had to reswaddle, until now.

Alice is a lovely name

KellyC · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2006, 13:45:04 pm »

Alice

So pleased things are working out for you, we get there in the end and then something else needs 'fixing'!!

Interestingly we had to go out this morning and Zander woke at 7.30am but I put him down for his nap early at 9am (only 1.5 hours A time instead of 2.5 hours) and he took his usual 1.5 hour nap. We got back home (I managed to keep him awake when he started nodding off in the car 5 minutes from home!) and he was in his bed after another 2hrs 50 mins and has so far been asleep for 1.25 hours! I'm going to have to read this post back again to understand what was said about going down early for the am nap. My only concern is that I read it can cause early wakings or night wakings as they see the am nap as an extension of their night time sleep. We have a 2 year old's birthday part to go to this afternoon so I'm pleased he'll be refreshed enough to cope with all those noisy toddlers!

Kelly x

RachelC · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2006, 18:49:10 pm »

Wow, glad I stumbled across this thread. We are just getting to a 4 hour EASY now (we have been 4 hours between feedings for 2 months, but the awake time has been short). Naps are improving now that she's staying awake longer. I think that solid food feeding does break it up and make her last longer. (Actually the second awake time is interupted by a bf, which will become her third solids this weekend) I think she's quickly going to move beyond the 2 hours of awake time.

We're having the swaddle issue, but it has been happening around 4 or 5am and only once. We're probably going cold turkey on the swaddle in 2 weeks, when my husband is home for a week for his spring break. I'm not looking forward to all the changes that will bring.

Thanks for the advice on this thread

~Rachel

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #24 on:** March 29, 2006, 01:03:41 am »

I have tried unswaddling Gage and he fell asleep fine, but went back to 45 min naps. How do you just swaddle the arms? He doesnt like his arms to his waist, so we have been using the Aussie swaddle. Boy, I am sure gettiing tired of swaddling and reswaddling. To get him away from the bars I rolled up hand towels and put them under the sheet. They act as speed bumps and he didnt get close enough to them last night. That being said he woke 2x and whimpered all night. I think he is teething

HeatherC · « **Reply #25 on:** March 29, 2006, 01:22:36 am »

I also went cold turkey on the swaddle and it was fine. Then we started using a sleep sack and used it until she learned to sit up on her own and began rolling around in the crib alot. As for the bars of the crib, we have a bumper. If you are concerned about baby being against a bumper, they make a kind that is like netting for ventilation.

KellyC · « **Reply #26 on:** March 29, 2006, 22:06:45 pm »

We chose a time when Zander was sleeping badly anyway and went cold turkey with the swaddle (though he's had one arm out for a few weeks). I figured it couldn't get any worse and I never used it again!

Kelly x

courtneyandmiles · « **Reply #27 on:** April 06, 2006, 19:45:04 pm »

Gage's mum,

My daughter is 6.5 mos., and I , too am having an "off" few days. Seems to be since "springing" forward w/ the time. I notice that I don't write in my journal when she does well, but I record EVERYTHING when she's "off".

I've been confused since she's started solids, missing the 4 bf a day of the 4 hr. EASY. Now I'm confused about how to mix in solids, I feel unsure of whether she's sleepy or not, and she's needing help to fall asleep; she didn't before.

I notice that since she's been born, I have times where I'm totally confident and times where I'm freaking and addicted to this site! (like now).

I find it most helpful to record everything, consult Tracy's SOLVES ALL YOUR PROBS book and whine on this site. I find that it all sorts out within a few days, after a thorough freakout!

-court

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2006, 21:54:39 pm »

Hi there Courtney! Babies are so dang complex arent they? Everything is an exact science which is fascinating but frustrating at the same time. I often feel like I am trying to solve a rubric cube. This site is a complete life saver! I too am obsessed. I will never look at a baby the same way. Every time I see one I wonder what their routine is and if their parent has figured it out. I just dont know how non baby whisperes get on.... seriously. I know so much more than I had ever dreamed ( and have SO MUCH more to learn). I should have done my Master's thesis on the days and nights of babies.

Anyway, this is a crazy stage for babies. I feed Gage his last bottle early because he will miss it if I dont. If you post your routine I can try to help. I write down EVERYTHING good and bad, and I look for patterns of both types. Gage will see it someday and think I was obsessed..... and I am..... but it is out of love.

KellyC · « **Reply #29 on:** April 07, 2006, 09:01:42 am »

Hi Alice

I know what you mean about wondering how non-baby whisperers cope. Yesterday I met a very relaxed and happy 15 week old who doesn't take ANY naps during the day - what's that all about?!!

How are your naps going now? I still rarely get 2 good naps a day, though he usually takes 1.5 hours in the morning he gets by on 45 minutes until bedtime and usually starts crying sometime around bath time

What's your routine now?

Kelly x

Lªuren · « **Reply #30 on:** April 07, 2006, 10:56:52 am »

Kelly I will answer again that one next week, the fast few days have been 30mins - AM and longer Pm to total up to 3hrs. His early mornig wakings are here and there as well

He managed untik 0645 this morningm however I put him to bed later at 1945

KellyC · « **Reply #31 on:** April 07, 2006, 12:02:30 pm »

So much trial and error at the moment isn't it?! I woke Zander up from his am nap after 1.5 hours but it took some doing and I'm sure I'll regret it when he only sleeps for 45 minutes this afternoon! I may start cutting the am nap down to an hour and see if that helps but I'll give it a few days longer first. Don't you ever wish you were a mum who didn't think a short nap was a problem - or who though that 30 or 45 minutes was a long nap?!!

Kelly x

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #32 on:** April 08, 2006, 00:38:43 am »

Hi kelly! Well things are crazy at the moment. I am not sure what is going on with Gage's wake time he sometimes get up at 5:45

and other times 7:15! Right now his 1st A time is 2.5 hrs, 2nd 3.0, 3rd 2.75 and last is the remainder of the day. His bedtime in usually 7-8pm. Perferable 8pm as he tends to sleep until 7 am, but nothing is ever certain anymore. His naps are like yours it is either a 45 min or a 1.5-2hrs nap, and then a catnap. He still needs to have a catnap and will take one 99% of the time, but it is getting so late in the day that it makes it hard and putting him to bed early will not work because he will wake even earlier. How much total sleep does Zander need? I am thinking that Gage needs closer to 13-14hrs rather than 15. I think I will start cutting the AM nap down too. Gage's nap was 2hrs this morning and I had to wake him.

KellyC · « **Reply #33 on:** April 08, 2006, 11:20:08 am »

Alice

I have no idea how much sleep Zander needs - sometimes he hardly naps during the day and I think he'll make up for it overnight but he's up at 6am and then sometimes he has good naps and wakes at 7am the next day. Let me know when you figure it all out!! By the way, I love the updated picture of Gage.

Kelly x

Gage and Sophie's Mom · « **Reply #34 on:** April 09, 2006, 01:37:04 am »

Thanks Ladies, Gage is very cute if I do say so myself

Zandersmummy, I am sure I will figure it out when the next dilemma arrives

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Author Topic: Not enough info. for going beyond 4hr EASY (Read 5685 times)

Nikki~Nathanamp;Danielle