9 Month old won't sleep through the night anymore!

[Ravynsmom]

Hi everyone,

I just read the "Baby Whisper" book and I'm having difficulty on where to start with everything.  My main concern is my dd waking up many times through the night.  She is 9 months and started waking up at night again at 7 months after we moved to a new place, teething started and solid foods were introduced at around 6 months.  I've been putting her back to sleep by breastfeeding her.  The problem is now she doesn't seem to want to eat as  much through the day and I'm really tired in the morning and my schedule is not staying on track.

I read the latest interview with Tracy and that has helped me quite a bit,  but I don't know where to start to stop my accidental habits.  She mentioned starting by getting her to not fall asleep at the breast which is the only way to get her to sleep now. 

I going to have her checked at the doctors to make sure this in not a health issue or a feeding issue.  After that I hope to start to break the habit of putting her to sleep with the breast.  So my question is what is the first step and how do I start?

Thanks,

Ravyns Mom

[teezee]

do you also feed to sleep during the day for naps? could you post your routine for me?? my lo ate more at night than in the day at about 6 months and i got that straightened out and so can you! pls also include when lo usually wakes at night? what does she do when she wakes? how does lo fall asleep at bedtime?

[Katet]

When you feed her to sleep, try to break the time between feeding & bed a little bit. Say when she's fallen asleep, get up & hold her (over shoulder) walk around for a minute or 2 then go back & if (hopefully she has stired) put her down & pat her off to sleep... gradually lengthen that time until she is actually awake & add in stories etc so you have a longer & longer time between feeding & bed/nap.

You need to look at the fact it has taken a couple of months to get to this stage, so it is probably going to take AT least 1 months to fix.

The BIGGEST issue with night waking is how they go to sleep at the start of the night... so you REALLY need her to go to sleep at the start AWAKE... then you can tackle the feeding back to sleep after the start is sorted... at this age with Separation anxiety you will probably be best to stay with her until she falls asleep, even when you don't need to physically help, by patting or PU/PD

[Ravynsmom]

Thank you for your reply.  Right now I'm nursing her for her naps.   She used to be put to sleep by rocking with music or when she yawned I put her in her crib and she would go to sleep. 

The routine I'm trying to put her on and stay on is:

7:00                 wakes and bf
8:00                 activity ( older sister has to get ready for and take to  school)
9:00                 cereal and fruit
10:00                I try to get her to nap..she may go sooner
12:00                bf
1:00                 lunch - meat and veggies
3:00 - 4:30        nap - maybe an hour..time depends on if I need to pick up her sister from school
4:30                bf
5:00                supper veggie
6:00 or 6:30     bath
7:30-8:00         bf - bedtime

This is usually the routine but it all depends on the going ons during the day.  My older dd is 4 and is in junior kindergarden and goes to school everyother day so routines are not allways consistent.  I know this is not what a routine should be like, but I'm trying to fix that.

When she wakes up at night I first see if she will go back to sleep before I go in.  I try to get in fast if she gets really up set...my older dd wakes up if I take to long.  My lo  usually is rubbing her eyes.  She seems mad when shes awake so I know she is tired.  I pick her up first and see if she will go back to sleep in my arms like she used to do.  If not, and she gets really mad, then I then feed her in her room on a rocking chair.  If I'm really tied I take her back to bed with me.  She seems happier to sleep the night with me there. 
This I beginning to think is separation problem.

Time varies at night...after I put her down it seems about anywhere to an 1 hr or 2.  I usually can rock her to sleep then.  Next time is usually around 12am or 1am.  Next time is some were around 3am to 4am.  She is then usually is happy to sleep till 7:00 or 7:30.

I'm going to try and keep better track on her wake times at night.  I know this is alot to digest.  I really want to do better with her.  My first daughter was a textbook baby, used a soo-soo and was bottle fed.  So I feel like a new mother all over again

Thanks,

Ravyns Mom

[teezee]

i absolutely agree with kate. you need to first break the nursing to sleep association and then work on the other issues at hand. you don't want to do too mcuh at once as lo will just be entirely confused.

[Ravynsmom]

Thats what I'm afraid of...to much to soon.  So should I start with bedtime putting her to sleep awake?  When I try and do that now she has this look on her face as to say "what are you doing to me .  Do I start the pu/pd?

[teezee]

if lo feeds to sleep - after the feeding like kate said walk around with lo and talk to her so she is at least somewhat alert. i would def do it for all sleep periods so it is always consistantly the same when you put her down to bed and she will get used to it that way. like kate said when she is used to that after a week or so, then start separating sleep with books or something. if lo still needs to be comforted after the books, rock her a little but not to sleep - just so she is drowsy (eyes fluttering open and closed) and put her in crib and stay with her with a hand on her belly/back til she is fast asleep. slowly you will be able to start leaving sooner and sooner...and then soon after that you can start putting her down more awake every few days. it will be a long process, but lo will be happier and so will you once she learns to fall asleep independantly! just to keep in mind - if lo ever starts arching back while rocking or you holding her before bed that will mean she wants to be put down and will be trying to go to sleep independantly even if you still have to stay in the room and keep a hand on her - it's all a 'training' process. i wouldn't necessarily go to pu/pd right now. but once she is going down drowsy/awake you may have to do that if she cries after she is in the crib as you don't want to pick her up and go back to rocking kwim?? anyway, hope i have helped some - good luck and keep us updated!

[Katet]

Yes definitely concentrate ALL your energy on the start of sleep ie naps & bedtime. If she will fall asleep in the stroller or car, you can give yourself a "free" one (at the same time each day) & let her fall asleep then. but otherwise it is best to be consistent for the start... once you get that part working, the night waking will be easier to fix... some of it may fix it's self
It won't be easy, but worth it in the end
The other thing is DON'T swap & change between feeding to sleep & putting to bed awake as that is totally unfair to your lo... kind of like someone teaching you a new car route in 5 different ways, before you master it in one... you just don't understand & can't learn how to get from A to B. You need to be 1000% consistent & when I went through this stage with ds#1, I went to bed when ever he did, so I got as much sleep as I could, cos it is hard.

[Ravynsmom]

Thanks all for your advice ....there is so much information I hope I'm starting out right with her.  I'm starting tommorrow putting her on a set routine for her naps and etc.  Then when naptime begins should I first start by nursing her to settle her and put her down sort of awake.  At night I try that and she gets really upset if she wakes up.  Same with her naps...if I put her in her crib to early and she wakes up. Is this where I should consider doing the pu/pd?

[teezee]

i would personally just try putting my hand on her back/belly (depending on how she sleeps) and if that isn't enough try shhing very quietly. it all depends on your lo though to be honest - but always try to settle in the crib first! maybe kate will have some different advice for you as that is what worked for us.

[teezee]

btw - your dd is just beautiful!! 

[Katet]

yes she is going to "fight you" as it is not what she "knows" what you honestly need to do is trust yourself on what you think you can sustain the longest & be consistant... if you think PU/PD is what your gut tells you, then do that, if you want to feed until calm stir her a little & then put her down & pat her off until she is asleep, that is ok too... the key is at this point to break the association of feeding being the way she falls asleep. For me I can't do pu/pd with a crying baby... but when he won't go back to sleep & is "playing" pd is great... if he is upset, I walk him around until calm, put him down & pat/stroke him until he goes to sleep... that is what works for ME & Liam... that is what you have to find... what works for you both.

[teezee]

very well put kate!! 

[Ravynsmom]

Thank you... people call this picture the "Gerber baby pose"

My lo is not big on being touched anymore...she will physically push my hands away and really become upset.  Possibly a grouchy baby trait?  
I  noticed also she used to sleeping on her back by lately she likes on her side...maybe because of nursing position when I'm putting her to sleep?  But I'm wondering if she falls back on her back and this is what is waking her up.  She also hasn't begun to sit or pull herself up yet.

[Katet]

Well you could wait until she is done teething, but they will keep coming on -off until about 2 yo & sometimes it is just better to work through it... illness I'd not try but teething actually is quite a good time to change things as you can give pain meds & that does tend to help calm them

Honestly the reason she "doesn't like being patted/held" is probably nothing to do with not likeing it but not lieking change. I know when I fell into a habit of feeding ds#2 for a nap, he would fight against being held... that is just their way of saying "this isn't the way we do it" You either have to decide that you will "fight back harder" & eventually get her sleeping better, or you just have to live with the waking.
All her "anger will be at the change, not at what you are doing & yes it could take up to an hour or more each time of her being upset for 2-3 days before she relises you are not going back to the old ways. ALSO if you "try to change" & then stop & feed her after 10-15mins or even an hour, all that tells her is she has to fight/cry harder etc for you to go back to the way "she knows" & so all you are teaching is "I just need to cry harder" rather than that Mummy is teaching me a "new" way & so the more I cry isn't going to change anything... it isn't easy, I know I've been there with both my children, but the "rewards" of having them sleep better makes the 2-3 days of REALLY hard work worth it.
But you swaping between trying to change & back to what you used to just sends a very confusing message & she just learns to "push harde" for the way she knows she can fall asleep... which is really unkind to her if you make her cry for an hour & then whip out the breast anyway

[Ravynsmom]

Thanks for your reply

If I decide not to give in...is there a time when I would give up trying to put her asleep or do I keep it up until she falls asleep.  I never let her cry for more then 10 minutes because she gets into such a fit..she is actually shakes....that is why I usually go back to the breast to clam her down.

[teezee]

all i can say is definately stay consistant with whatever you decide to do.  if lo is up crying for a very long time it will take up her energy and she will eventually get hungry b/c of it...but i do think you should do whatever you can so that you don't have to resort to 'sticking out a boob' to calm in the end - as kate has said that's just not fair to dd and will give her mixed messages and make her confused.

[Katet]

Before a nap/bedtime I offer my ds water so that I know he isn't going to be thirsty. Can you feed say 1 hour before without her falling asleep, so you know she is ok.... feed her if she starts drifting, take her off & go & do an activity. that way you can be confident thirst isn't part of the issue.

To be honest it could take 2 hours & occasionally longer... for me the longest was just over an hour, but usually it peaks around 10-15mins & then cycles, repeating, gradually they loose steam.... so in all honesty 10mins is actually not that long. As long as you stay with her comforting with soothing words & You remain calm, she will learn. After about 30-40 mins it is good to step out of the room & give you all a break, you could offer a small snack & drink from a sippy at this time too. Then go back & start, It is also a really good idea to have a "routine" you do before trying to settle her, so she knows what is happening next. I change nappy, then we sit & read a couple of stories & then I cuddle him & sing a quick song & then into the cot... that way ds, knows it is nap/bedtime, because it is the same routine every time... if you leave the room, start your routine all over again. Also have a verbal message you keep repeating. for me it is "it's ok, nighty night".  What you want to do is change what she sees as the "cue" for bedtime/naptime.

As you have always stopped at about 10mins, that will be the hard part to get through, so it might early on be a point at which you go back & repeat the "settling routine" to "help you" get past it

[Ravynsmom]

It has happened finally!!!!!
I started at first to get dh to settle her down when she woke and that lasted for about 3 days. Went back to the old habit when she got sick and was teething.  Then at around 11 mths I started the pu/lay down because at this point she was pulling her self up.
The first night she did not settle for 2 hrs.  Cried for about an hour and then laid down and chatted and tried to settle for the next.  Finally went to sleep when she got settle on her stomach.   She woke up once that night and I did the pu/lay down for about 10 - 15 mins and she went back to sleep for the night.
  I truly believe she was waking up before because I used to cover her up when it was cold out and she would get all tangled up and not be able to sleep with out my resuce. 
Next night only toke her about 10-15 mins.  She got to the point where if she tried to pull her self up I would get off the rocker and she would sit down her self.  She went through the night.  Now I'm working on the naps and that is working good also. I need to leave the room for naps and bedtime now or she'll want to play with me.  I'm started to wean her to so that is helping also.
Thanks for all your help!!! 

[teezee]

glad to hear things are moving in the right direction!! good for you!!