Waking 3 hrs after dream feed!

[erinsparents]

Hello,
Just wanted some advice on what could be causing my dd to wake consistently 3 hrs after df?? 3 nights in a row. She is 4.5 months old (20 wks) and we have been working a lot on napping and going down independently using pu/pd over the last 2 weeks. She's improving and even had a couple of nights where she slept through and didn't wake after dream feed. I admit the dream feeds were't consistent in the last 3 nights. But what was consistent was her waking exactly 3 hrs after each one! (DF was at 9:30 one night b/c I thought she was hungry cause she didn't eat much all day; then 10:00, then 11:30 each subsequent night).  The first two nights I did pu/pd and it took 2 times to get her through the 30 min but she slept through. Lastnight, I got her back to sleep for 30 min but she was more difficult to get back again and I was starting to wonder if she was hungry cause I read that inconsistent wakings might indicate hunger (even though they were consistent in relation to the df  ) so I fed her    She took both breasts (10 min each) but then still needed a bit of help to get back to sleep.
Another thing we've been working on is taking both breasts at each feed. I'm really just switching to a 4 hr EASY late in the month whereas before she was on a 3/3.5 hr schedule with just one breast each time (10 min or so)...so we've been transitioning that since 3 weeks now and she's just starting to do the full feed in the last 5 days without spitting up too much due to being over full (I think that's what the spit up was from but she sometimes spit up on just one breast!!!)
All in all, I'm wondering if she could be hungry at this time of night (? growth spurt?) and if she is if it's possibly time to start solids as she was showing all the other signs except for extra hunger! THe last couple of days she has gotten all 5 feeds at 20 min each during the day.
I've just read the post about overtiredness playing a role so perhaps it could be that because we've been sleep training for 1.5 weeks and she has certainly lost some sleep over that time. She's now napping no more than 1.5 hrs for 2 naps and a 30 min catnap...but somedays that is hard to achieve (but she is tired.)

I think that's it - any help would be appreciated!!

Laura

[brightside]

I would try 'wake to sleep' to see if its an habitual waking. Set your alarm for 1 hour before she usually wakes and stir her gently. Not to wake her but just stir so she comes into a light sleep and enters a new sleep cycle. I did this for some habitual wakings and was amazed at the results. It worked first night!  You are supposed to do it for 3 nights though to properly break the habit. If she still wakes at this time, she could genuinely be hungry. I would have thought though that at 4 months, if you are feeding regulalry throughout the day she shouldn't need a feed so early after the DF. Maybe early in the morning but my guess is it could be habitual.

[erinsparents]

Thanks for your advice, I will give it a try. I'm used to doing it in the daytime when it's just before they're waking but I guess at night it's an hr before? I'm thinking it's habitual but I think I'll start feeding her solids soon and see if the extra calories will help. She really seems to be ready and is big for her age (15 lb 4 oz at 4 months).

Anyhow, I wanted to answer some more questions incase they're needed to add to my post as I just noticed the 'questions to answer before posting' section.

Here they are:
How old is your child? 20 weeks
What’s his/her daily routine? generally a 4 hr easy but things get messed up when she has such short naps (30/ 45 or 20 like today!) and we have to cut down A time cause she's so tired...and the cycle goes on from there (I'm doing PU/PD and wake to sleep for naps but sometimes unsuccessful.
What’s nap routine? try for 9-11, 1-3  and catnap around 4:30/5 but again these are ideal cause she usually can't stay up past an hr in the morning (after her feed) so it's usually 8:30.
How long ar naps? the most i've gotten is 1.5 hrs at a time and that's an exceptionally good day...oddly enough the days she naps more during the day she sleeps worse at night and the days she's gotten only about 30 min of sleep she slept through!! But I know she's tired...this is not just her pattern.
What's bedtime routine? Time? bedtime is ideally around 7:30 but we've had to start doing things so much earlier now due to lack of naps and she's exhausted by 5! So generally it's bath around 6 and feed at 6:30 and bed after that (awake). Ideally I'd like to do E then bath but I'm afraid she'd fall asleep eating and wouldn't be able to tolerate a bath (which she enjoys).
Do you bottle or breastfed?? Breastfeed
How much? or how long? As I described in my first post...we've just transitioned from 1 breast at a time and she was eating every 3-3.5 hrs (even during the night likely at least once...I was trying to eliminate the 2am feeding and was giving it if she woke after 3:30 or so). Now we've transitioned (not via any babywhisperer method...i sort of started introducing two breasts and lengthening the time here and there over about 3 weeks) to two breasts at once and she eats for about 20 min. (but is more interested in my food so I definitely can't eat or even drink sometimes when bf'ing).
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) as above
How many wakes per night? sometimes none, sometimes one the last 3 nights.
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? Takes about 15-20 min to get her back to sleep and then she usually wakes after 30 min. After getting back to sleep again (another 20 min) she stays til morning...have to try wake to sleep for that too!
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? I usually wait until it's a real cry but sometimes I  have difficulty telling if it's just mantra. The first few are and then it escalates to a point where I know she won't settle herself, that's when I go in.
What have you tried to settle?? PU/PD and sometimes some shh/pat
What do you do for A time and how long is it? Very minimal, she may be chewing on a toy or doing some time on her belly - at most it's in an activity centre where toys are all around (not sure what they're called).
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? Possibly teething, she's gong through another spurt of heavy chewing on things and wanting to chew fingers (no teeth showing yet).
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) No, I haven't but I'm planning to soon- any advice? She seems to have all the signs...the only thing I was waiting for was for her to show that she's more hungry than what I'm providing.
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? Not really, we went cold turkey on the soother for naps/sleeping but we sometimes use it in the stroller/car when we are encouraging her to settle/sleep...not planning on giving it back when in crib - she has just learned to self soothe by sucking her own tongue.
Do they have a lovie? Not yet.

Thanks for your help. I'm guessing that a lot of the issue is overtiredness due to the sleep training. I also know we're changing a lot of things at once on the lo (where to sleep and feeding schedule). I'd appreciate some advice on where to go next.

Thanks!

Laura

[erinsmum36]

hi - bit of a sideline question from these posts - my health visitor has advised me to carry on feeding from one side at each feed. my LO is 12 lbs at 8 weeks so not small, but puts on weight consistently and is happy on 3 hour easy. The HV said that your body will ensure that one side will supply enough milk of all weights (foremilk, hindmilk etc) as per demand and so unless a baby is ferociously hungry it shouldnt need a second breast. She also said (and Tracey's books support this) that it takes approx 15 mins to get to the really creamy stuff, so if you are only doing 10 mins on each side, could it be that you arent getting as much of the rich stuff into your LO? Just an idea, and I could be misinformed...