DS takes almost 1 hour to settle to sleep, and wakes at least once a night

[MontrealMommy]

My soon to be 17 month old DS has been what you would call a 'bad' sleeper from day 1. He sleeps lightly, wakes at the least sound, wakes up frequently, takes a looong time to settle to sleep and when he wakes up during the night(which he does every night) takes a loong time to settle back down again.

We have a pretty set routine, get home at about 7:30, get in the bath, get the Pj's on, then reading and cuddle time in my bed. By about 8:15 it's lights out, but I stay with him until he's asleep (I tried the CIO method  for 3 weeks, he screamed for over 4 hours every night, I never went in ONCE, I almost lost my mind, so NEVER AGAIN!)

The issue is that he takes a very long time to go to sleep, at least 45 minutes, usually over 1 hour. He can't seem to find a comfy spot and just keeps fidgeting. He bangs his leg on the bed, he bangs his hands on the bed, he twists and turns.

Once he's asleep, I move him to his crib. He will usually wake up during the night, and when he does the ONLY way I've ever been able to get him back to sleep is taking him in my bed with me. I've tried everything else trust me!

Once he's in bed with me, he will usually wake at least once more, sometimes more. When he does, he can take up to 1 hour to go back to sleep. He starts the fidgeting again, bang the leg, bang the hand, twist and turn, all the while doing this whinny, half-crying that leads me to believe that he really WANTS to sleep but just can't.

Any and all suggestions or comments are welcome, I need all the help I can get!

[alyssa1]

It sounds to me that he has never learned to go to sleep in his own crib and so he won't:
1. start his night sleep there and 2. when he wakes up in the night, he probably is unfamiliar with his territory and he won't go back to sleep there.

Do you have Tracey Hogg's books?  If not, I would run out and buy them and read them.

My son as well has never been a great sleeper but we have been able to correct it with the help of these books and this website.  We are still working on a few things but he will sleep through the night 7pm-6:30am without waking (fingers crossed).  My son is 14.5 months old and we have also tried a number of things to help him sleep better.  The method you read is against the CIO method (which we tried as well - terrible for us too) and I truely beliveve that a lot of what is in the books will work.

If I were you, to start this is what I would do:
-  try the bedtime routine earlier, maybe start at 6:30pm
- do cuddle time and books in his room at night
- put him down in his crib - there are many techniques offered in the books on how to get this to work (put down - walk out/walk in)
- if he wakes in the night use the same techniques and do not take him to your bed (put down - walk out/walk in)

It sounds as though you are wanting him to sleep independently and if you follow some of the guidelines Tracey suggests in her books I bet you will get there. 
We didn't have your exact same issues but we ourselves had many and now starting to correct them has been difficult but so rewarding.
Let me know if you have questions - I am new at this website too and this philosophy but, the mom's that email you back are great.
Good luck - Also it would be helpful for you to post your 17 month olds day and what it looks like.

[MontrealMommy]

Thanks for replying.

I wish I could get the sleep routine started earlier, but we don't get home until 7:20 - 7:30 PM.

The day usually looks like this:

-We're up at around 6:30 am
-Out the door by about 8:30 - 9 am
-We drop off my son at my in-laws where he will spend the day while I work.
-He eats at around noon, and my m-i-l will get him to sleep by about 1. She is only able to get him to sleep by walking around and playing a specific music tape that he likes. She then lays him down on her bed and he sleeps for 2-3 hours everyday.
- We get there to pick him up at about 6:30 pm.
-Get home and the nightime routine begins

Personally, I don't mind having my son sleep with me. I enjoy having him close and if we both get more rest that way - great. I was more wondering if anyone out there had experienced the same issues or restless, fidgeting that we're having.

My M-i-l has had 4 children. She watched her two other grandchildren daily until they were both 5 years old. She then watched two other nieghborhood kids until theywere 5 years old. She knows kids. She tells me she's never seen a baby who is such alight sleeper and has such a hard time getting to sleep. This almost made me feel better, at least I know it's not just me! 

[imsmum]

First of all, you have my sympathies!  My dd is also a super light sleeper and can take ages to settle.  She can be a monkey trying to settle too but it's usually when she is overtired--she does a zamboni circuit around the crib sometimes (as a fellow Canadian you'll know what I'm talking about), feet through the bars and can only settle herself if she tosses her head from side to side.

It's tough when you can't control your schedule to accomdate their's but you've got to work with what you've got.  The good thing is that he gets a good nap everyday which he needs if he's only getting 9.5 hours of sleep (or less with the night waking) every night. 

First do you have to wake him at 6:30?  If you do is there any way that you can let him sleep in any later? 
 
Secondly, if found with my dd that I had to stop bringing her into my bed when she was about 6 months old because it was counterproductive--she would be more stimulated with me there and when she fell asleep --because she is such a light sleeper--I couldn't sleep because if I even breathed too loud it would wake her! So as much as you don't mind co-sleeping you might want to think about whether you might actually be disturbing him because he is such a light sleeper!

What do you do at night to get him settled initially? are you lying down with him in your bed as well?  If so he probably has a dependency either on being in your bed or with you to fall asleep. I think youare right he wants to sleep but if they are overtired they just can't get themselves off again.  If you don't mind the co-sleeping can you just leave him in your bed?  That might get rid of at least one of the wakings so he's getting more solid sleep. You may find in turn that that gets rid of the second wakeup--I found with my dd might waking was most frequently caused by overtiredness. 

[Harrisonsmummy]

Hi, just read your post and a number of conflicting thoughts are:-

 that your lo isn't getting enough overnight sleep, but takes long naps.
 He is possibly overtired due to night wakings and this in turn can cause him to wake more and for longer at night and can make it much harder for them to settle.
He has a long stretch from am wake to lunchtime nap, but if he generally sleeps for 3 hours only just over 4 hours before lights out.


I would try a shift in timescale? Can the lunchtime nap be brought forward? Try to get MIL to get him asleep by 12.30. Then make sure he is awake so that 5 hours (max) from his wake-up is lights out time? He may be more ready to settle then after such a long pm sleep. For an 8.30 asleep time I wouldn't let him sleep later than 3.30pm.

Or can you shorten the evening routine at all, to get him down even slightly earlier - can he have a bath in the morning? Or a shower at night? (my ds just started to have showers and loves them!)

if he was falling asleep by 8.30 (allowing for an average of 20 minutes to fall asleep) and if he wakes at 6.30 he is only getting 10 hours a night - which is a low average. As an example my ds averages 10.5hours, but when he dips below 10 for a couple of nights, will start to wake up in the night! When he does this I generally spend a couple of nights getting him to bed as early as I can to catch up and that normally fixes the problem....perhaps at a weekend you could bring everything forward slightly to see if it assists.....

A bit of a ramble, sorry, but something in there may be useful, and will keeping watching.....

Good luck

justine

[MontrealMommy]

Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate all the advise and hints.

1) I don't wake him up at 6:30, he is usually awake all by himself. I wish he would sleep in and sometimes he does make it to about 7 or so, but it's rare.

2) My poor MIL has tried to get the nap moved forward (I know he's overtired, so we've tried this before) be my DS just fights and fights her on it. She's been able to get him down at 12:30 only a few times, most of the time it's 1pm and then he'll sleep for 2 hours.

3) He does fall asleep with me laying down in our bed next to him. If I try to take him out of our room he just screams and screams. We end up not getting him to sleep until 11 or later, because once he starts he just doesn't stop, even if we go back in our bedroom.

4) We try to get the bedtime routine done as quickly as possible. I get off work at 6 pm and by the time I pick him up from my in-laws and get home, if i can make it there by 7:15 or so, I've already broken quite a few speed limits. I'll try the shower thing this weekend, see how DS like it!

5) I do my very best to get him to bed earlier during the weekend, but sometimes life gets in the way. Birthday parties for cousins and just trying to see friends. Sometimes my DH resent the fact that we stay home all the time since the baby was born and that his sleep schedule seems to, as he puts it "rule our lives", so I usually end up stay home and DH goes out to see friends or family. It's not an easy balance is it?

[MontrealMommy]

Oh yeah one more thing...


The worse, worse, worse, is if he DOESN'T nape for 2 hours and only get 1 during the day. Then he will fall asleep on the ride home, but will wake up if I try to change him. So after getting that 20 to 30 minute nap in the car.... FORGET IT! He's up and there's no going to bed. So now, I keep two PJ's at my In-laws. If she tells me he didn't sleep well, I change the diaper and get him in his PJ's before we leave. That way when we get home, we just have to maneuver the coat off of him and get him in his crib. We don't always succeed at that, but at least we have a fighting chance now!

Also, allot of the night wakings have been due to nightly diaper leaks. I've been on a diaper saga to try and get Huggies overnites in Canada (Wal-Mart was the only distributor and they've dropped the product ) So, I got Depends Pads for men, and I put those in his diaper at night, so far this has worked (only 3rd night tonight). I'm keeping my fingers crossed...

The other thing that I've noticed since we started co-sleeping, my DS has allot of dreams and some nightmares. Last night he woke up screaming and pointing. He'll talk in his sleep and sometimes even laugh. All these things affect his sleep I know....

[MontrealMommy]

We seem to have resolved at least some of our issues... I have placed a double sized futon mattress in my DS bedroom. I put on the same kinds of sheets I use in my bed. Ds has fallen asleep very well in this bed for the last two nights. As well, he has slept better than the past two weeks. Hopefully, this will be a permenant solution  to most of our sleep problems. I know it's not perfect, and I'm sure we'll still have bad nights, but we sure seem to be heading in a better direction.

Tonight - he fell asleep in no time, at around 7:51 (!) and I've not heard a beep out of him yet (it's almost 10 pm) which is very, very rare for my DS. I really think he hated that crib. I have to admit that the futon mattress is quite comfy. I bought a nice, thick mattress cover and soft cotton sheets, two nice firm pillows and he has his favorite teddy right next to him. At least I know that if he does roll around, he only has a few inches to fall to the floor, so I can leave him in there without worry. When he was in my bed, I was alway nervous, I have a very high bed and hard wood floors all over the house.

So now, DH is back sleeping in his own bed, which makes him happy. And if DS does wake up screaming, I can go lie down next to him and be comfy too. I think that, for now, this arrangement will help everyone get more sleep, which is a blessing!

[imsmum]

Good for you--it certainly sounds like you are moving in the right direction!  Did he wake at night and did you need to go in to him?  Keep us posted on how things are progressing--you may be able to tweak things a bit more so that you are all getting more sleep.

[Ellies_mom]

Hey Montreal Mom, and neighbour, I`m in the south shore. 
I have had pretty much the same issues with our DD. Very light sleeper, waking up numerous times, we tried everything with the exception of CIO. When DD was 17 months old, I decided to bring her into our bed. I wanted to know if she wanted mommy and daddy next to her, what was causing these night wakings. Since shes been in our bed, her wakings been due to dreams (we can hear her breathing change just before she wakes up crying) or when she wants more room on the bed..lol. When she dreams, she'll wake up saying no no, no more, bye bye. Something she sees in her dream and wants it to go away. She settles pretty quick though, we reassure her and she falls back to sleep. Its been getting better and like you, it takes me approx 45 minutes to get her settled every night. I honestly think at one point the crib was just too confining, she was no longer comfy in there. Could your DS be experiencing the same since hes sleeping better on the futon?
We have now ordered her "big girl" bed and are in the process of decorating her new room. We have her baby room and big girl room..lol. I dont know how the transition will be but we are determined to make it work!
Good luck...
ps...I have another child who was the complete opposite, slept through the night at 5 weeks old and could sleep through a party.

[MontrealMommy]

Hi Ellies_Mom,

We're on the North Shore, but we work on the island. To funny to meet up on the web like this.


Anyway - your post could describe my liottle guy exactly. He dreams ALLOT! Sometimes he wakes up screaming and pointing at the ceiling or at the wall. He'll 'talk' in his sleep and sometimes he just starts laughing. He has been allot better since sleeping with me, but there are still some bad nights. The good thing is that once he settles down for the night, I can walk out and leave him in his futon. He is still waking up during the night and if he finds that I'm not there with him he gets upset. So I do have to go in a lay down next to him. But at least we're in his room and not ours, so it's a step. A baby step maybe, but still a step!

Last night was bad, he woke up almost every 1/2 hour, I'm pretty sure he has atooth trying to break through. But it's somtimes just hard to tell what's happening. He wakes up crying and just can't seem to settle down.

All I keep telling myself is 'This Too Shall Pass...."

[imsmum]

I'm not sure if you are content to let things stand as they are or if you want to move to more independent sleep  but I'm pretty sure that in The Baby Whisperer Solves All your Problems Tracy went througha scenario similar to yours except there was also night time bf'ing.  That obviously doesn't apply but it does discuss the technique of getting more independent sleep with a co-sleeper.  If you're interested you could check that out. 

[MontrealMommy]

Is there something on this webs iet that describes the technique you're talking about for co-sleepers? Or do I have to buy the book?

[imsmum]

I think Florencia said there is a virtual library--I don't know how that works here so you may want to contact her directly to find out more.

[MontrealMommy]

Thank you I wiil!