do i drop the dream feed or try to wean the middle of the night feed?

[sleeplessinseattle]

hi there..me again. for the past 3 weeks or so our lo was getting very fussy, agitated etc. when eating - so we switched to the fast flow nipple..which worked!  he is taking his food much better now.  But - he still seems fussy on the morning feed...and I'm not sure if this is an indication that we need to be doing 'something else'?? 

our ds is BIG....only 4 months old and already 20 lbs.  he has grown soooo much since his 8 lb 14 oz. birth weight.  He was eating a pretty consistent 28-33 oz. per day (usually around 32) until about a week or so ago...and now it seems to suddenly be around 39-40 oz.  His schedule is usually a pretty consistent 3 hour EASY - we've tried moving toward a 4 hour EASY but, he seems so hungry ..and has NEVER been a good nap taker.  We have tried 'wake to sleep' without success (yet).  I go in..try to catch him before he wakes...even when he does wake he just looks at me and grins from ear to ear and starts to coo.  I think sometimes that its me that wants him to nap - not him...as he seems pretty happy and content.  here's the general schedule:
6:30 wake up and eat
8:00ish 45 min. nap
9:00-9:30 eat (6 oz)
nap around 10:45 for 45 min.
noonish feed (6 oz)
1:30ish nap - 45 min.
3 (6 oz.)
4:30ish nap - 25 min or so..
6 (6 0z.)
7 wind down, bath etc..
7:45 - 8 (4-6 oz) cluster feed
8 sleep
11 (dream feed - anywhere from 2 - 6 oz. depending on the night and how sleepy he is)
one middle of the night feed...sometimes as early as 1:45 a.m...other times all the way to 4:30 - always 3 oz. as we've been trying to wean him off this feed first.

So - my questions:
  1.  should we reduce the amount of formula mixed with water (normally 1 scoop for 2 oz. - so move to one scoop for 3 oz etc.) for his middle of the night feed to slowly eliminate this feed and help him eat a proper breakfast?  He is doing so well for his age...am i completely off base here?
  2.  can i switch to 4 hour easy if he doesn't nap well??
  3.  also - i am thinking its time to introduce solids??

any help would be greatly appreciated!!!  thanks

[LŠuren]

Hi again,
I hope I can answer these for you;

  1.  should we reduce the amount of formula mixed with water (normally 1 scoop for 2 oz. - so move to one scoop for 3 oz etc.) for his middle of the night feed to slowly eliminate this feed and help him eat a proper breakfast?  He is doing so well for his age...am i completely off base here?

Have you tried to night with no dreamfeed? If, not it may be worth a try to see if he will still wake at the same time in the middle of the night for a feed. If it were me I would be inclined to keep things are they are and work on the transistion to 4hr EASY. From what you are saying he needs the middle of the night feed and will drop it in his own time, the fact that he wakes at different times indicates hunger not habit.

What do you mean he is fussing at his morning feed, does he not want it or is he still hungry? It also sounds like you have hit the 4 month growth spurt, so I would be inclined to try and increase his day feeds if you can until it passes.

  2.  can i switch to 4 hour easy if he doesn't nap well??

Yes, you may find that the naps may sort themselves out or at east get a little better. If you stay on 3/3.5hr EASy too long he may start to wake more at night and have disrupted naps,etc. I have attached a guide not sure if you already have it.

  3.  also - i am thinking its time to introduce solids??

I personally can't say whether its right or wrong, speak to your doctor about this. As I said earlier it sounds like a growth spurt is the cause of the increased feeds. Everything else sounds normal i.e the night waking.

HTH's
lauren

[sleeplessinseattle]

thank you for your thoughts. 

sorry about not clarifying - he is not wanting to eat first thing in the morning.  and/or he hasn't been eating very much in that first morning feed for about 3 weeks or so.  this is why i wondered if i should be doing something else with either the dream feed or the middle of the night feed.

i am totally baffled by the naps.  his first and second naps of the day are almost always his best and only 45 minutes long..getting shorter and shorter from there.  other than a total of 3 naps since he was first born that exceeded 1.5 hours...he hasn't napped longer than the 45 minute mark ever!!!  (well..maybe a few times when he was first born while sleeping on my chest).  I'd really like to move to 4 hour easy...but his naps - or lack thereof - makes me wonder about a 4 hour easy.  maybe two naps in between feedings?!?!? 

i have a 4 month check-up for him in 2 weeks...will ask the doctor then about solids.

any further thoughts now that you know about the first morning feed around 6:30 - ds not wanting to eat very much....still think i should try to drop the dreamfeed??

thanks

[LŠuren]

It sounds like he needs to possibly move to 4hr EASY.

Try a night or 2 without the dreamfeed and and how you get on from there.

[LilysMum]

In regards to the morning feed troubles.  My daughter wakes at around 6am, gets up at around 6.30 and still point blank refuses to eat before 7.15 at which point she'll guzzle down 250mls (and she sleeps through the night without a feed).   Its the same after her naps - I need to allow about 45 mins even if she seems hungry or she won't take the bottle.  Maybe your baby also wants to play for a little while before eating in the morning?  I think some babies, like adults, just don't like to eat as soon as they wake up.

[LŠuren]

thats a good thought, I also leave DS 30mins from his wake up to his firt E time.

[LŠuren]

sleeplessinseattle

how are you getting on?
Lauren

[sleeplessinseattle]

i'm so thankful for all of your help.  we have been doing really well!!  we changed to the fast flow nipples which has helped a lot with our ds being much less fussy at meal time.  additionally - i have been following your advice and not feeding him right away in the morning and he seems so much happier.  he napped the other day (with grandma) for just over 2 hours.  a bit of a fluke since he hasn't done it since...but, he does seem much happier.  we have also been working the past 3 days on changing his feeding times to 7,10,1,4,7 and a dream feed.  seems to be working well.  so we changed from a 6,9,noon and so on....to the 7,10,1 and ended up dropping the "cluster feeding" a bit anyway..i still have given him the option of a little top-off at 7:45 just before bedtime.  a couple of the nights he took it..one he didn't. 

so - feelling very good about the move to the new time schedule and the cluster feed.  may be coincidental but, he also has only had 1 or 2 oz. at the dreamfeed...and he has slept through the past 2 mornings to 5:30ish before fussing!!!!!  he is doing SO well!! 

now i have to figure out how - if - we will get to a 4 hour easy.  he just seems to be SO hungry ....starts 'talking' ...getting grumpy etc...then we feed him and viola..he's happy and smiling again.  So - i think now that we've switched his 'time clock' a bit to the 7,10 etc....we can start working on extending his 3 hour EASY to the 4....still wonder when or if its time.  and - if we need to get better naps??  the past 2 days he's only napped his standard 45 minutes.  but - we'll see...he's a delight!!

[LŠuren]

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=58390.new;topicseen#new

Take a look here for more info re: d/feed and moving to 4hour EASY, do you also have the plan that Tracy devised?

lauren