8 months - AP or just a phase?

[PaolaG]

Lea is almost 8.5 months, and we are struggling with her naps and her night sleep.  in the past there weeks she started to crawl and pull herself up to standing, and now when she is in her cot that is all she does.  She goes to sleep ok at night (I don't feed her to sleep), but then she wakes up several times during the night, and we find her sitting up or trying to pull herself up on the cot bars.  I have tried so hard to always let her settle in the bed, but I am really not sure now whether I have been accidental parenting and rushing to her side too quickly in the night.  I certainl don't go to her at hte first noise she makes, and very occassionally she settles herself wihtout me having to go to her, but that is very rare. Its also got much harder to put her down for her naps.
 
I am really confused about what to do.  I do the PD technique, and then leave her when she seems to have settled, but 10 minutes later she wakes up and starts to stand again.  Is this just a phase - will she get bored of standing all the time.  How long should we wait before going to her at night?  and is there anything we can do to help her take her naps?  How long should I wait with her when she seems to be going back to sleep at night?

Paola

(ps I did post a similar question on  the night waking board, but haven't had any responses, and I could really do with some help on this)

[JennŠ]

Mine was really bad recently.  Crawling ya know.  Gotta be mobile!!  Once she figured out a commando crawl/ inch worm techniqe, she went back to "normal" .  I can say that it is probably a phase, but not sure how long it will last as we are not at standing yet.  (preemie)  What would happen if you waited until she fussed a touch/ sounded like she wanted down?  Maybe getting back on track has ideas?   

[KellyC]

Hi Paola

Am I right in thinking I already know you from another website?   

With regards to when you go to her, you need to wait for the distressed 'help me now mummy' cry.  If she's waking up but isn't distressed and this goes on for a long time I suspect that maybe she isn't particularly tired.  Are you following any sort of routine?  If so, could you post it so we can see if there's anything there we could tweak to help?

Kelly x

[Jaime]

from what you've described, it sounds like a developmental phase, so you really do just need to ride it out.  PD is the best thing to do, but like zandersmummy said, wait for the "i need you" cry before going in; that will let her practice away rather than you just being there & getting frustrated.

[PaolaG]

Kelly - yes it is me! 

We do follow a routine, but I can't say its stricly EASY because we have never mastered naps completely.  Or at least when the naps fall into place, then she changes!  I think that Lea is a spirited baby.    Very roughly its:

between 7.00 and 8.30 up and breastfeed
9 breakfast
(Morning nap is either roughly 10-11, or 11.30-12.30)
between 11 and 12 breastfeed
1 lunch
(Afternoon nap is either roughly 2-3or4, or 3.30-4.30or5)
between 3 and 4 breastfeed
5.30 supper
6.30 bath
7 breastfeed and bed

She normally has two naps a day, but it varies when.  Occasionally she still takes half hour naps.  We think that the difficulty with naps is part of the problem at night.  We always try to make sure she has two naps a day in her cot, but sometimes she really doesn't seem tired by 10, and much later than that and she starts to get hungary, so her first nap ends up being more like midday.  I do put her in her cot and even if she won't sleep she will at least play happily by herself there.   She rarely breastfeeds to sleep, more normally feeding gives her an extra burst of energy!

She is tired when she wakes in the night, its just that she has this automatic instinct to sit up and then stand (which can be a bit of a struggle in a sleeping bag).  Last night she woke at around 11.20pm, but I just turned her over, put some music on, and she went back to sleep in about a minute  She then woke at around 2am, and then again three more times at ten minute intervals.  Then at around 4.30, when I fed her a bit (I want to drop the night feed, but I am not sure if this is a good time to try - she is definitely eating much less at night now, and I think is almost ready to drop it).

Paola

ps the night she slept through from 7 til 5 was when we flew back home from Paris - so it was a very disrupted day with erratic and short naps, and we didn't give her solid food except for a bit at breakfast.

[KellyC]

Hi Paola

Your routine is very similar to ours and looks pretty spot on to me (besides the short naps - we have those too!).  Some of our A times are closer to 3.5 than 3 hours now but what you've put seems reasonable for an 8 month old.  We're trying wake to sleep to extend Zander's naps at the moment.  I haven't had much success yet but I'm sticking with it for at least a week to see if I can re-programme Zander not to wake after 40 minutes.  Is Lea waking after 40 minutes or after an hour - the latter would probably be because she just doesn't need a longer sleep, so perhaps you could go with an A time closer to 3.5 hours.  As you know, it's all a bit experimental until you find something that works and then before you know it it changes anyway 

Have you seen this thread?  It's a support group for mums spirited babies - it sounds as though Lea would keep going all day long if she could!

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=40851.0

I think so long as you're only going in and doing PD when you hear Lea's distressed cry you're doing the right thing.  From what the others have said it sounds like this is a developmental thing you have to ride out.

With regards to the night feed, we just got rid of Zander's a couple of weeks ago.  One of the things we did was drop the 11am feed because Zander wasn't particularly hungry and was just snacking at this feed and again at the 3pm feed (or refusing one of them altogether).  Straight away his feeds became 2 or 3 times their normal length (though they settled down again after a few days) and he started sleeping longer and, after a couple of days, through the night.  Having said that, the last few days he's only made it through to about 5am or 6am so I'm trying adding back in the fourth feed now he's in the habit of having good breastfeeds.  The other thing I started to do at night was gradual weaning, where you reduce the number of minutes you breastfeed for during the night every couple of days.  Here's the link for that;

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0

Sorry I haven't been much help 

Kelly x

[PaolaG]

Kelly - that is really helpful.  At least I can stop worrying that I am doing something terribly wrong, and start to try to  ride this out as a transition.  But you are absoutely right that sometimes she can happily go for 3 or 3.5 hours wihtout a nap.  Naps have always been a bit of a problem - in fact Lea sometimes only sleeps for 30 minutes, othertimes for an hour, 1.5 hrs, 2 hrs and rarely for 2.5 hours.... she is erratic and hard to predict, and very far off being textbook!  I will check out the spirited support group.  But maybe getting her to drip her night feed might actually help her.  I wouldn't drop any of the day feeds as she takes a lot at each feed and she barely eats solids, so she is definetel getting most of her nutrition and energy from bm.

thanks very much

Paola

[KellyC]

Let me know how it goes.

I think we'll stick to the 3 feeds here as this morning I added back the 11am feed and we've just had an almost non-existent 3pm feed - funny how these babies are all so different!  Wake to sleep worked for our pm nap too 

Kelly x

[PaolaG]

so last night, Lea was struggling between 2 and 4 - at least she would seem to go sleep for about ten minutes and then start crying out again.  After a couple of minutes of PD I would then just rub her back (she sleeps on her tummy), and it seems to keep her calm and help her sleep - though I really don't know why she is now finding it so difficult to get back to sleep by herself, except that when she wakes even a tiny bit she automatically tries to sit and stand.  Maybe its also a bit of separation anxiety.  But eventually she went to sleep properly and woke up at 6am, so she almost reached 12 hours through the night without feeding! 

So I sort of feel happy but knackered!

Paola

[KellyC]

That's fantastic    I know that happy but knackered feeling well, I think it's my permanent state of mind at the moment    You're right, it could be both the sitting and standing and separation anxiety at Lea's age.  They have so much to go through during these first couple of years it's no wonder they struggle to sleep!  Zander has just moved from his hammock to his cot and is sleeping on his tummy too and I do the same thing - pin him down (!) and pat his bum or back until he's calm and then just leave my hands on him for a few moments to make sure he stays calm and then I step back and see what happens and repeat if necessary!  Your current woes are making me dread the time he learns to sit and stand on his own!

Take care
Kelly x

[PaolaG]

We did even better last night (after a completely disastrous nap day) - she stood up a few times between 12 and 1am, and then slept to 5.30, ate a small amount, and has gone back to sleep.  I have decided to take her down to two meals a day, as she seems to sleep better when on only two meals.  I know it seems strange but she eats so little and she doesn't miss solid food if we give it late or forget about it completely.

She really is an active little lass - so maybe Zander will have a more sensible approach to standing! Its so strange to me, I can see how tired and exhausted she is, but she will pause for about 10 seconds when she puts her head down and then up she goes.  So its only when I really hold her down that she will stop and then fall asleep properly.  I keep on explaining to her that if she sleeps she will haev more strenght to stand up later in the day!

Paola