Too much or too little sleep...HELP

[shelliz]

I am in the middle of tackling night waking AND short afternoon naps w/ my dd.  Below is dd schedule and questions. I would be so grateful for any help or advice.

6:30-7:00 Wake
7:00 BF
activity time
8:00 solids
activity time (play mat, tummy time, johnny jumper)
9:00 nap (usually 1- 1 1/2 hr)
activity time
11:00 BF
activity time
12:00 solids
1-1:30  Nap (usually 38-45 minutes)
3:00 BF
4:15 catnap (30-45 min)
7:00 BF, then bath
7:30 bed
 
Nighttime consists of a 10/11:00 feeding (used to be a df but now dd wakes up first) and then several night wakings (I feed her b/w 2-4 once).  I am working (beginning last night) on phasing out the early morning (2/4:00) feed.

  I can't, for the life of me, get her to extend her afternoon nap. I have tried w2s, p/u-p/d (for her age) and shortening her morning nap to see if she would legnthen her afternoon nap. She is really fussy when she wakes from the short afternoon nap. I don't know what I am doing wrong or what I can do to change this.  I know she is tired.     Right now she is crying (after I have tried 2 times to extend her afternoon nap), I laid her down at 12:30 and she slept time 1:15. I tried for 40 minutes, took a 10 minute break and then tried again till 2:50.  It is her 3:00 feeding time and I am throughly confused as whether I keep attempting to get her to take more of a nap after I feed her...or do I let it go, give her a catnap or just put her to sleep earlier tonight. I don't want it to screw up her nightime sleep.

....I ended up feeding her and I plan to let her stay away till around 4:00 when I will let her take a catnap. I don't know if this is right or not. Does anyone have any advice/suggestions?

TIA

Shelby

[RachelC]

Shelby,
I understand where you are coming from.  I think we just had a similar battle here.  The solution (in our case) was to increase awake time.  We have gone to 2.25 hrs in the morning and pushing 3 hrs in the afternoon.  This elminated the catnap.  DD was waking for df and we began moving that earlier and she has stopped waking for it (we are currently in the process of phasing it out)
Perhaps your lo needs more awake time and is getting too much sleep and making up for it.  Sorry this is jumbled or incomplete by for what ever reason dd2 is being a real grouch this afternoon.
~Rachel

[shelliz]

Rachel...

  In regards to the DF...is your lo breastfed?  Even if I beat my daughter to the df before she wakes up on her own...it seems like she ALWAYS wakes during the feed up no matter how gentle I am in picking her up to bf her.  Should I keep moving the df up earlier and earlier even if she is waking up each time, or should I just quit it all together? I had read that quitting abrubtly can cause night wakings but since she is waking up for the feedings I didn't know if it would be the same kwim?  What do you think? Thank you so much for your reply. I think I am going to try extending A time. The only thing I am concerned about is that her naps differ in time so much that I am afraid I will end up w/ too much wake time at the end of the day thus...dd will be overtired.  It is kinda confusing. Or maybe I am making it harder than it should be. Ugggg???

[RachelC]

Shelby,
Yes, Jalyn is bf, even for the df.  We were df at 11 for quite some time and then she started waking before then, so we moved it to 10:45 for a couple days and tried to hold it there, even if she woke before.  Then we moved to 10:30 and that may have been around the time she started increasing her awake time.  Oddly enough, she started staying asleep for the df and taking a better one than before (even when she was waking for it).  At the end of the df she would wake and stare at the door waiting for daddy to put her back to bed.  We have since moved the df to 9:30 (in 15 min incriments and moving it every 3-4 days - does that make sense?) and she might stir when I pick her up, but she is out cold by the time she is done and barely moves when dh lays her back down.
Go with the flow during the day... we never have the same day around here (especially the days I run dd1 around to preschool and swim lessons).  She may need to start going to bed earlier for awhile to adjust to the extra awake time.  Hopefully (as it did for us) that second nap will work itself out and she will stop waking for the df.  HAs she always had the one night feed?  Perhaps she'll cut that one out too (or you can try pu/pd or wake to sleep (if it's the same time each night)).
HTH
~Rachel

[shelliz]

Rachel....


   Thank you so much for replying and helping me!  Yes...Jessica has always had at least one early a.m. feed usually b/w 2-4:00 am.  Actually, starting last night I put a plan into action to cut out that feeding. She woke at 1:00 a.m. and was up pretty much the entire time until 4:30. During this time I would go in and try to soothe her by talking to her quietly (she doesn't seem to like it when I pick her up..gets more angry). We made it through the night w/o feeding her (until 6:30 a.m)  I know she is old enough not to have to eat during the night. My hang up was that she was a little light at her 4 month check up (14.5 lbs), so I didn't want to deprive her of food.  I know she is fine now, and we have begun solids. So...last night was our first night. I hope it works and she will stop waking several times.  I am hoping that now she won't be eating at night, she will take more in at each feeding and MAYBE everything will work itself out. I will try the longer activity times. I just hope she won't get overtired and then it will affect her night wakings. It seems like such a vicious cycle. I just want to get it right for Jessica.

[RachelC]

Shelby,
Glad to help.  That night waking may work itself out too with some more awake time.  Keep working on eliminating that feed... don't give in tonight, you're on your way!  It may get harder before it gets easier, but it will be worth it.  I know all about small babies (well ,maybe not all  )  Jalyn was 13 lbs 11 oz at 6 months... I think she's up to 16 now, with solids being introduced.  Is Jessica well estrablished on solids ( I think I have seen your posts elsewhere concerning food).

~Rachel

edited to add.... Duh.  When I went back and read your orignal post, I see that solids are twice a day.  We waited for 3 meals a day before moving the df... I might stick with around 10:30, if you can.

[shelliz]

Rachael...

  Yes...we JUST started solids on the 15th (she turned 6 months).  Going o.k. so far. Well...I take that back. My pedi recommended we start rice cereal at the 4 month check up. I believe that was b/c she was only weighing 14.5. Not sure, but we gave it to her usually once a day. But now we have begun veggies. So far she likes zucchini and doesn't like avacados.   I think we'll do banannas next.

(:  Shelby

[Elphyrafire]

Shelby- I just want to jump in and ask if you tried the "wake to sleep" method yet for her naps? I say that b/c nothing worked for us and then I read the post on it and tried it and BAM it worked. The only prob is that you have to watch them sleep for 2 hours to catch when they start stirring. i just stuck DS in a basinette in my room and turned on the TV on low while he slept and when he stirred I either pat/shushed him or stroked his forehead or stuck his paci back in. And they cannot see you there or it's all over. Look at the post on Wake to Sleep.
Ella

[RachelC]

Shelby,
Just checking in... how did last night go?
~Rachel

[shelliz]

Ella,

  Yes...actually yesterday and the day before that I tried w2s. I had tried it previously and I couldn't get it to work. Before I would go in and tug gently on her blanket and get her to stir or stroke her head to make her stir a bit. It would either not work at all and she would wake up at the same 45 min mark or I would wake her up when I was doing it. Two days ago when I did it I went in right when she was stiring and I was able to get dd to extend nap by 30 minutes and then yesterday, I think I went in too late and she was already stirring.  I almost think that I stimulate her too much when I try it. I laid my hand gently on her and she wakes up more when she feels me. Maybe I am doing it too late???

[shelliz]

Rachel...

  Last night wasn't too bad. She went to sleep right at 7:00. I woke her for a DF at 10:30. She didn't wake till 3:00 and was easily soothed back to sleep w/o a feeding. She woke again at 5:15 and it was a bit harder to get her back to sleep. Then she woke at 6:30 and I fed her.  I don't think I said on my first post but I am working on getting her to sleep through w/o a feeding (aside from df). So considering that...she did pretty well. It was wierd though...at 8, 9 & 10 she stirred and crying for only a second and was back to sleep. I don't know if that was b/c her napping was so off yesterday or what. I was pleased though that she either never fully woke or (if she was fully awake) that she soothed herself back each time. I guess we will keep trucking on.
 Thank you for your help and advice. I really use it and appreciate it!