Author Topic: Any thoughts on these wakings?  (Read 1958 times)

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Offline brightside

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Any thoughts on these wakings?
« on: April 19, 2006, 09:23:00 am »
Before 3 months we had a DS who slept through  ;D. I have not fed him in the night since about 8 weeks apart from one or two occasions where I just didn't know what was keeping him awake.  For about the last month we have had various wakings at night. I've even been keeping a sleeping log to see if I could spot any patterns. I figured out that if he has a nap after 6pm we have more wakings so have cut that. We also had some wakings that were really long and so I fed him but he just took less the next day. Some wakings I can see are related to overtiredness at bedtime etc but since keeping the sleeping log I 'thought' I had everything covered. We have had some nights that have had NO wakings too, but not many!  :( In the last 3 days we have had wakings starting around 4-4.30am and I'm wondering if it might be hunger related.

Here's a roughly average day
7am wake and feed
9am-9.45 nap
11am feed
11.45-12.30 nap
2.30-3.15 nap
3.15 feed
5.15-5.45 nap
6.30 bath feed (7pm) Bed 7.30pm usually asleep by 7.45
DF 10pm

He takes 7-8oz at each feeding. We have tried to work on the 45 minute naps but nothing seems to work and he usually wakes happy from them so I haven't pushed it. He also is quite happy to go 2 hours between naps even with the 45 minute sleeps although I do put him down a bit earlier if he seems tired. I should point out that we have had great nights sleep and terrible ones when he has days very similar to this.

For the past few nights we had wakings similar to this:  4.30am rolled onto tummy so put him back, gave dummy then left him. 4.45am chatting to himself. Left him to it and he eventually went to sleep. 5.30am moaning that was escalating so went to put dummy in. Fell back to sleep until 6.15am. Put dummy in again and then had to wake him at 7am.
I only go to him if the moaning seems to be escalating and I never pick him up unless he is really crying but that rarely happens. I just put the dummy in and stay for a few mins until he seems to be going back to sleep.

Thanks for any ideas
Cath, 33

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Offline teezee

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2006, 15:47:49 pm »
it seems as though lo is not tired come the early am waking. at this age imho i think that lo's should only be having 3 naps - 2 longer ones and a catnap..and yes after six pm would also contribute to night wakings. i couldn't give my lo her catnap past 5:15pm. i would def cut the naps down to three a day, and if lo is tired than put him to bed earlier for bedtime rather than give him an additional nap..after a few days it should clear up a bit. what have you tried to extend naps? wake to sleep? pu/pd? shh/pat? are you sure lo is tired enough to go to sleep and stay asleep before the nap? or could you possible extend the A time a little bit here and there?
Tawnya
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June 11, 2005




Offline brightside

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2006, 17:05:33 pm »
Thanks Teezee. I've tried shh/patt and wake to sleep. I've not done PU/PD as the one time I tried it I did it for 1h20 and although he sort of calmed down he didn't actually go to sleep. I think it got him more worked up and then just stopped crying eventually out of sheer exhaustion. I've also tried putting the dummy back in several times but he just looks at me and smiles. I persevere for about 30 mins until he starts to get frustrated-he genuinely doesn't seem tired. He does sometimes have a long nap so he is capable of doing it so I figured if he needed a long sleep he would have one. He only ever has one long nap a day though.  :-\ The fact that he is ok with the 45 minute naps makes me think he only needs a short nap. I will try to extend A time a bit. I go off his cues 99% of the time but I always put him down after 2 hours even if he seems ok because I'm worried about him getting overtired. He usually goes to sleep quickly. Do you think he could handle more than 2 hours?
If he does only have 3x 45 minute naps, when would I do the last feed? That would mean he would be going to bed at 5.15?  :o
Cath, 33

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Offline Elphyrafire

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2006, 02:48:39 am »
Brightside- I am jumping in here b/c I think you will read it instead of psoting a new thread for you to miss.
I found your posts on w2s from March 14- the one where you posted each night for like 4 nights, saying you broke the habitual waking at 3:00 am. Our sons are the same age. I am still dealing with habitual wakings at 1:30 and 4:00 am. i am perservering with w2s. Anyway... can you please describe in detail what you did to rouse DS without waking him up? And did you do it 1 hour before or a half hour? Thanks, Ella and Jack
Oh yeah- when did you stop having to do w2s? How many nights approx?
Mom to "Textbook" Jack born Dec 3, 2005
and (?) Rya- Feb 13, 2008

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Offline teezee

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2006, 04:33:20 am »
now have you done the wake to sleep or/and pu/pd for naps? or night wakings? or both? i think you could try to extend the A times - it can't hurt for a few days to see whether it will help or not. 45min is generally a wake up time b/c that is when lo's go through their sleep cycles. generally it means that 1. a lo does not know how to self soothe back to sleep 2. lo is not tired enough to sleep more 3. lo is overtired 4.lo is overstimulated. do you think it could be any of these? i do think that lo needs more than 3x45min naps / day to be well rested at almost 5 months. if you are going to try to put lo down to sleep early instead of 5:15 could you push it to 5:45 or 6pm? by extending A times a bit here and there during the day i think that this may help extending this time as well.

also wanted to mention - i don't know what your lo is - but dd is totally spirited and when i try and go by her 'signs' and cues for certain things..usually sleep - i am usually wrong - she will yawn and sometimes rub her eyes and it doesn't always mean she is tired. when she gets extrememly tempermental and fussy - i know i have waited to long though. more than watching cues - watch lo's demeanor kwim? when trying to extend A time - def do it slowly, and just add some low key A time reading books, looking out the window - whatever you need to do just keep it mellow. lo may be giving you 'sleep signs' b/c that is when he is 'used' to going to sleep...
Tawnya
Mommy to Alecksandria
June 11, 2005




Offline brightside

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2006, 08:20:07 am »
Elphyrafire: I did the w2s 1 hour before and I stroked his cheek to stir him. If that didn't work, then I just pushed him onto his side slightly. I did enough so that his head moved from one side to the other. Its hard not to actually wake them. I'd start of very gentle and then be a bit more 'forecful' (in a nice way-kwim?) until lo stirs. It worked the first night for us but I did it for 3 nights to be sure.

Teezee: Didn't get round to doing the w2s last night. Had set the alarm for 3.30am and he woke at 3.28!!!  ::) He cried out but then settled himself so I didn't go in. 5 minutes later he cried out again and when it escalated I went in and put his dummy in. He just started messing about with it though and started chattering to himself so I left him to it and went back to bed (this is what has been happening for last 3 nights). After about 1/2 hour he went quiet and I assumed he'd gone back to sleep. At 4.30am he cried out again and DH went to him. He'd rolled over and had his foot stuck in the cot bars. He then went back to sleep until 6am. At this point DH tried to settle him with the dummy but he wouldn't so he brought him to our bed and he then settled until I woke him at 7.30 to feed.

I've tried w2s sleep at night and for naps. I did it for about a week for every nap and only managed to extend 2 naps. It was driving me nuts not having any Y time and spending it in the Nursery. As I've said he does have a long nap occasionally on his own. Usually about 1 a day, but not every day.

My DS is 'textbook' or certainly was  ::) Not sure what's happened to him.

I am definitely going to try to extend A time today and see if that makes any difference. I usually put him to bed when he gets very fussy and a change of scene makes no difference. OR I put him down after 2 hours, whichever comes first. If he can manage 2 hours with a 45 minute nap though, it stands to reason that if he had a longer nap, he could handle a longer A time. Doesn't it? I really try to keep an eye on the cues and extend a bit longer.

I just have a couple of other questions:
1. He seems to be doing a lot of this 'chattering' to himself lately. He's doing it a lot in the day and has started doing it when he wakes from naps too. I'm wondering if he could be 'practising' his new skills when he wakes at night?
2. When he has a rough night like this, do I still wake him at 7am or let him sleep a bit so he doesn't start the day off overtired? I think I read on another post that if you let them sleep in or have a long am nap, it reinforces the night time waking.

Thanks again  ;D
Cath, 33

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Offline teezee

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2006, 16:14:03 pm »
it very well could partly or totally be due to developmental issues..depending on how long it goes on for.

absolutely still wake for the day at approx the same tiime or the wakings will be reinforced as lo will know that he can 'make up the sleep' at that time.

could lo possibly be hungry? i am just asking this b/c you said that he woke at 3:28 and then again at 4:30. usually if after you settle they wake within an hr it means hunger...but if you haven't ruled out teething, gas, or other tummy problems it could be this as well.
Tawnya
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June 11, 2005




Offline brightside

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2006, 17:57:08 pm »
Well we've had an interesting day today. Tried to extend A time and he stayed awake for 2.25 hours. He then slept for 45 mins but woke up crying so I went to give him his dummy, he made a few noises and then after 10 mins went back to sleep. He's not done that for AGES! He then slept another 15 mins, dummy back in and then I had to wake him half hour later for his feed!  :o He totalled 1.5 hours. The next nap he only had 40 mins and the final nap he only had 35 mins. On both occasions he had an A time of 2.25 hours. I am going to try w2s again at the weekend but MIL has him tomorrow so its a bit pointless doing tomorrow. So at least we've had 3 naps instead of 4 and even though only one nap was a long one, bedtime isn't too early because of the extended A time and the half hour lie in we had this morning.  ;)

We'll see what happens tonigh. He's still only had the same amount of day sleep as usual and still only 1 long nap but maybe only having 3 naps will make a difference. I'm also going to attempt to set the alarm for w2s tonight too! Hope it works this time!
Cath, 33

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Offline Wiki

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2006, 19:19:33 pm »
brightside, saw your reply on my post, sounds like our boys are going through similar things, although Caspar is a few weeks younger (but was 12 days overdue). He also makes lots of noises and chats to himself when he wakes at 5.30am, he learnt to blow raspberries over Easter and was doing this early today, as well as up to 30 mins at a time during the day. Good luck for tonight. Caspar's had about 45 mins less daytime sleep today and gone to sleep at 7pm, so I'm crossing my fingers for 6.30am wake-up, or maybe 6am. Just not 5.30!

Offline brightside

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2006, 09:51:42 am »
Wiki: yes it does sound like they are doing the same thing. Interesting that I noticed your routine looked the same as mine too. Is it them or us I wonder?

Last night DS woke at 12.30 but settled quickly. However it was a bit restless so when he woke at 1.30 I decided to feed based on the 'if they wake in less than an hour' rule. He only took 5oz but then chatted to himself and then fell asleep after 20 mins (no dummy!  ;D) He then stayed asleep until about 5.15, settled quickly and then again at about 6 for a minute. So for him, not too bad a night. I also did w2s at 3.30 as he usually has the chattering episode around 4.30. Don't know if he slept better later on because I'd fed him or whether it was down to the w2s or the fact he'd had it earlier on  :-\
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Offline Wiki

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 13:38:07 pm »
We had a bit of a better time as well. I heard chatting and raspberry blowing at 5am  :o but then he eventually went back to sleep and shouted to be up at 6.25am. I can deal with that. He had about 45 mins less sleep yesterday as we had friends over so 2x 45min naps etc, I wonder if he needs less daytime sleep. He just went for a nap now (no fuss!) after being up 2 hours 40 mins!!!!!!

Now if I could just get him onto a 3.5 or 4 EASY...

Fingers crossed for tonight. At least its Friday so my H can help tomorrow AM!

Offline Mom1129

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 15:22:12 pm »
Just a suggestion.  I got one of those Cool Mist humidifiers,   I run it in DS room every night.  It has a nice soothing hum, is safe for future too, because it's cold air and furthermore, is nice for any dryness in the air.  It was so nice we got one for Mommie and Daddy too.  Now we all sleep better at night.  For us it helps to drown out the sleep noises he makes on the monitor, and I only hear the distress cries, (rare), and for my son, I use it for night sleep only.  I figure he should be able to hear SOME activity sounds around the house, and know that that is what it is usually like and sleep through it in daytime, muffled sounds from the nursery might even be a bit reassuring.  I do use it for nap time on trash days  though, (very noisy dogs barking, big trucks, bins clashing).  I did have the sound monitor, very useful in early days, I use it for a cue, while he has his goodnight bottle, but turn it of before I put him in his crib, reason being it EATS batteries, and we're kind of recycling/reusing nuts.  This humidifier helps dramatically, during my "Hell Week" of weaning from night feeds, a friend suggested the humidifier.  That night he slept 8 hours straight, next night 11 hours straight.  He still wakes occasionally early mornings, but my goodness it worked for us.  He has lovely sound sleeps. I don't know, it's probably a combination of many things, and their sleep is so fragile, one small  thing can knock it all out of whack, but it never hurts to try right?   And dare I say it?  *knocking on wood, crossing fingers, eyes, toes*, does not suffer from any colds, coughs, congestions, ear infections, nothing.  Like I said just a suggestion.
Getting the hang of things, and then it all changes.  Heh!

Offline Wiki

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2006, 18:22:44 pm »
Sounds like an interesting idea. But with the old Victorian house we live in, in London, the poor thing would freeze.
 ;D Its never more than 17 degrees C in there ever (no idea what that is in F sorry). Glad its working for you though!

Offline Mom1129

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2006, 18:53:12 pm »
Approx 64deg F, brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!  lol
Getting the hang of things, and then it all changes.  Heh!

Offline Wiki

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Re: Any thoughts on these wakings?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2006, 18:59:58 pm »
Yeah, these old places are a nightmare to heat with their high celings!