17 weeks - moving to 4 EASY with no dream feed?

[Wiki]

Hi there!

Just looking for some pointers on how to transition when my LO doesn't have a dreamfeed. He dropped it at 11 weeks and has been sleeping through ever since (although we are now getting early wakeup calls at 5.30-6.30am). If I were to try to aim and feed him at 7, 11, 3 and 7, would he still be getting enough milk? He drinks 8oz bottles, so that would take it down from 35-40oz a day to 30-32 maybe, he does sometimes leave 1oz now.

He can do 4 hours between his first 2 feeds, but later in the day he moves back to about 3 hours. I can sometimes get 15 mins extra but its hard to amuse him as he's usually been awake 45 mins before his feed is due, and he gets hungry and cries. He currently has two 1.25/1.5 hour naps and probably one of 45 mins and a catnap of 30 mins later in the day. I don't have too many issues with putting him down for naps now and he is fine going to bed at night. I can see two teeth in his upper gum, so he is a bit more fussy than usual and has been spitting up more, but it seems all the babies I know his age are too...

Vic

[Sarahboh]

Hello,

Hope this helps...Ella has not had a df since she was about 10 weeks old. She is now a little over 6 months and sleeping through, you can transition to without a df but in the very beginning I had a few ups and downs but it worked itself out. I still do a little bit of cluster feeding in the evening before bed and that works for me getting a little more formula in before bed. My feeds early in the day are spaced from 4-4.15 hours, then later in the day they are closer together to get more food in before bed. I will give you my schedule now (with food) but it was the same before with just formula. We started food at 18 weeks as per our ped b/c she was big and needed it but it may be different for your lo. Here it goes

7:30am wake and bottle 6-7 ounces
9:00 am 1 tbsp rice cereal, 4 tsp fruit and/orveggies +1.5 ounces milk in cereal
9:45-11:30(11:45) nap
11:30(11:45)bottle typically 5 ounces, sometimes all 7.
12:45 veggies and fruit 6tsp with remaining milk if doesn't drink all
1:30 (1:45)-2:30(3:00)nap
3:30 7-8ounces
4:45-5:15catnap
5:30 2 tbsp rice cereal, 5 tsp veggies/fruit, 3 ounces of formula
6:30 bath, massage, cuddle
6:45 bottle 6-7ounces
7:00 bed
As you can see between 3:30 and 7:00 she has three feedings and does really well with this, maybe you could try that if you are worried that he may need a little extra formula?
At this age I am pretty sure that they need 26+ounces day, so you would do fine if he was drinking 7-8 at each feeding. During the beginning transition to 4 hour I had a few nightwakings to eat, but it took 2 weeks total to get them completely straight and not needing any feeding. If you have any questions fee free to ask

[Wiki]

Thanks, that's really helpful. I guess I am worried about the lack of food meaning he will stop sleeping through, but you never know until you try huh? He's pretty greedy, so he's probably getting more than enough. Right now he's 15lb, how heavy was your little girl when your doctor put you on solids? I don't think he is ready yet, although he's really interested in watching us eat!

He is also getting up earlier, and I'm wondering if that's from the catnap. I read on another thread that taken too late it can rob from night sleep. So, today he had food at 6.20, 10.20, 1.30, 4.40 and 7. I usually end up having the last two feeds about 2.5 hours apart, which is kind of my attempt at cluster feeding and he usually eats it all! He also slept from 8.15-9.45am, 20 mins in the buggy on the way to the supermarket at lunchtime (he will not sleep long in there now!) and then 2.15-4.30pm. As he can stay awake 2 hours now, I thought there was no point trying to get a catnap in, so he was fine to go to bed after his bath and bottle by 7.15pm. I will see if he wakes early tomorrow as well - hopefully not!

Maybe if we can move to 3.5 EASY over the next couple of weeks, then when we get to solids I will be pretty much timing things as you do, with less food to start until he gets the hang of it!

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

I was flicking around and came across your post. I have never done a dream feed with my DS but what I find is that he needs to cluster in order to stop the early wake up. He basically feeds at 7, 11 (sometimes 1115), 3, 5/530 and 7. This also suits as my supply goes down towards the end of the day. The first two feeds he takes one side but after that he takes both, I think because there isn't so much. Tanking him up works and occasionally I can miss clustering but if I do miss the clustering too many days running we end up with the early wake up.

Not sure if this helps. I had to tinker with the feed times in order to make sure he got enough.

Hope it goes ok.

J

[Sarahboh]

It sounds like you have it right on key. I think the moving to 3.5 easy is a good move, as I did it cold turkey and I think that was what probably gave me some nightwakings here and there in the first two weeks. What might be a good idea too is as you move towards 4 hour easy, start maybe making your mornings 4 hours then the afternoon, evening 3.5 hours thus getting more food in before night. I know what you are saying about worrying about less food=nightwakings, that is always my fear too, even now when she doesn't take every one of her bottles fully, but trust me they know when they are hungry and when they aren't as much. I have really had to stop myself from worrying myself sick about that too!:) To answer your question, my pediatrician for Ella believes that it is not the weight of the baby that dictates starting solids, it is the baby's interest  in his/her parents eating which is the most. Ella was staring and licking her lips everytime we ate so I asked at her 4 month visit and he told me to try feeding her breakfast (rice cereal) which she LOVED from the get go then I just progressed from there to dinner and finally just recently to lunch. You could always ask to see what your doctor thinks, most stick to 6 months as that is the recommendation now but personally I don't think every baby is the same and some really do need something more early on. Feel free if you have anymore questions to ask sarah

[HeatherC]

Moving to a 4 hr feed routine and, thus, dropping a feed won't necessarily cause night wakings.  As they age, babies' tummies can hold more, and if he can take 4x 8 oz bottles, then he'll still be getting 32 oz.  Also, if you want to try dropping the catnap to see if that improves his early morning wakings, I think that's a good idea.  Usually, baby will start refusing the catnap as an indication to drop it, but it's all trial and error.  If you do drop it, try putting him to bed a little early for a while until he can adjust to missing that sleep.  It will be hard for him to stay awake until bedtime at first dropping the catnap, but he will adjust.  Or, you can try backing it up to only a 30 min nap, then 20, then dropping it.
As for solids, they aren't necessarily the answer to guaranteeing night sleep.  Some babies' systems just aren't ready to handle food as it can constipate them and/or cause gas.  Also, it takes them awhile to get rid of the tongue thrust/gag reflex and they don't usually swallow much of it at first anyway.  Unless your ped advises solids early for medical reasons, I'd proceed with caution.

[Wiki]

Thanks all, well, we got him to bed last night at 7.15 without a catnap (they are almost always 30 mins anyway, he hardly ever goes longer at this time of the day). He was getting pretty sleepy over his bottle but I still put him down awake. BUT, he was up again at 5.30am. I really wish I knew what was causing that over the last 3 weeks. I am worried that its turning into a habitual thing. Going to post on the Sleep boards for more advice unless anyone here has any thoughts? We've had 5.30, 6, 6.20, 6.10, 5.30 the last few mornings...

Am not planning on going to solids yet. I don't think he is hungry enough and he's getting through the night fine really. I feel like I shouldn't complain about the early starts, as I have friends whose babies are terrible sleepers, so I guess I am lucky. But my husband works long hours in finance and as such is home late and wants to spend time with me too, I'm so torn as to what to do for myself! Today I am operating on 5 hours sleep and feel like I have a hangover!

[Mum of girl, boy, boy]

Your not complaining. If I have to get up early with either of them (DD has being waking at 6ish) I hate it and in my eyes I have to try and do something about. I am just in a bad mood all day if I don't get my sleep. Probably why I get so stressed about them sleeping.

The only things I have tried is:

black out blinds (it boughts us an extra 30 mins which to me makes a huge difference)
ignore them unless they are crying - DS and DD always let out a short cry between 4-7am.

There might be something in the BW problem solving book.

Actually thinking back DS did do some early wakings several weeks ago and we worked out that he was getting cold and we put him in a vest under his sleepsuit which did help.

How wet is DS's nappy? Have you tried changing him and then putting him back down using the same routine you would for a nap / bed time.

Just throwing some thoughts out.

Good luck

J

[HeatherC]

I found this thread from another mom getting early wake up calls.  Don't know if applies to your situation completely, but thought you might find some ideas.  One of the moms (thitz) was was responding to the post is using a modified pu/pd with her 14 month old now to get her back to sleep in the am, so I tought you might could try one of the sleep methods (shh/pat or just pat or pu/pd) to try and get him back to sleep for longer.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=49202.msg336844#msg336844