Scabs on nipples - normal???

[Petunia]

I breastfed my firstborn and I am 28 weeks along with my second.  I am starting to focus again on breastfeeding and what it will entail and I find that I have leftover questions from my first time around.  Here's one of them:

In the hospital my nipples got really tore up!  I had dime-sized, thick scabs on my nipples (which was the ENTIRE nipple).  At each and every feeding/suckling my son would rip the scabs off and I would cry from the pain.  It was awful.  This persisted for three weeks.  I still had sores on my nipples for a couple more weeks, but the pain was nothing compared to what it was those first three weeks.  Is this normal??

By the way, I didn't think it was normal but the nurses in the hospital acted like I was overreacting.  They said that his latch on and position were good and to use lanolin.  Only one nurse, in fact the only good one, mentioned that she noticed my son was a biter and sympathized that he was probably biting my nipple periodically while nursing.  But would gumming cause those scabs by itself?  She also clued me in to the fact that I was nursing him too often (for having sore breasts) and should give him a pacifier during suckling times until my nipples healed.

Should I expect the same kind of pain with my next child?  I've heard lots of breastfeeding stories and no one else has ever mentioned this happening to them.  Did I do something wrong?  What about 'toughing up my nipples' before the baby is born?  Would that work?

I really don't want to sweat in anticipation of pain again everytime it's time to feed my newborn!

TIA Ladies, and by the way, I made it a whole year despite my painful beginning because I was determined.

[ks6]

I've heard if it hurts, the latch isn't right.  We had a bad latch for 2 days in the hospital, then got help correcting it.  However, the scabs took a long painful time to heal after that.  I think I was still crying at about 4 weeks.  I'd bet the second time around, we would all have a better chance at getting the latch right in the first place.  Just a guess, though.  Good luck.

[shelliz]

That is great that you made it an entire year!! Good for you!

 I actually did alot of reading up on bf before hand and actually saw a lactation consultant several times during the first month. Here is what I learned. First off...I began using Lansinoh (lanolin) on my nipples several months before delivering. I feel this helped some...for sure.  I also go scabs (but only on tip of my nipples.  I am suprised (...well actually I am not) that the nurses told you that you were nursing too often b/c La Leche League says, "Allowing your baby to nurse frequently, as often as he seems to be hungry, will actually minimize soreness; he will tend to suck w/ more vigor if he is ravenously hungry."   All of the reading I have done as well as  the meetings /w lactation consultants say that if you have sore extremely sore nipples then there is either a latch problem (improper sucking techniques) or a positioning of the baby.  I wouldn't suggest toughining up your nipple ahead of time. LLL says that isn't necessary. I would start using the Lansinoh now and maybe stop using soap (just on your nipples) that way they don't dry out.

 I am sure you have lactation consultants available at the hospital you are delivering at. This service should be completely free of charge. You have to specifically request that a lactation consultant come into your room. Alot of hospitals will make you wait 12 hrs before they come in to help you.  I requested one the first night even though I wasn't having problems yet. Get on the "list" as soon as you can. Mine came in helped and then came back the day we were checking out for a follow-up.  I would certainly use that service the hospital offers. Even if you feel completly confidant, it is good to get a second opinion from someone who sees this partnership everyday. ***
 Sorry if I have gone on and on and you already know this stuff.
 Hopefully this helps. Good luck.
P.s. there is a ton of info in the LLL books and online at http://www.Lalecheleague.org
   Shelby

[Samuel's mum]

Great minds think alike and all that...I was going to quote the same LLL bit about how if you don't feed frequently their sucking can be more painful/ vigorous!!! Plus I would agree with the fact 'toughing up nipples' isn't really workable and think about stopping using soap.

From my reading it seems some discomfort for a couple of weeks is not uncommon but nipple soreness should not really last beyond that time (in the ideal scenario) nor should pain continue after the first few minutes of the feed as with a correct latch the nipple should be beyond the baby's palate and not experiencing any friction/rubbing. So normal can be a wince initially but then as the feed settles down the pain goes. Some people feel no discomfort at all. The scab over the whole nipple thing is something I've not heard of before. That sounds not good! If there's justice your nipples will have learnt from last time.
I would also agree with asking to see an LC and getting them to check your latch. The latch is the absolute key to avoiding sore nipples.

[naunmom]

I agree with ks6 - that there is problem with your latch because I had the same problem.  I consulted with 2 lactation specialists ... the first said that my latch/technique was good after watching me - but I still had the problem.  The second specialist did not get to see me nurse the baby ... but she looked at my nipples and totally nailed my problem.  What she said ..

1.  latch the baby "chin to nose"
2.  nose should be touching the breast (not mashed into the breast ... just contact)
3.  lips should be flared (think fish lips)

After putting these 3 things into practice - I have not had ANY problems.  I DON'T think  it's normal ... nursing should not be painful.

Good luck.

[Petunia]

I've heard if it hurts, the latch isn't right.

Me, too.  That's why I asked three separate times for the nurses to check out my nursing.  I suppose I ought to have consulted a lactation consultant but the nearest one was 90 miles away.

I am sure you have lactation consultants available at the hospital you are delivering at.

I do this time around and I'll avail myself of their service.

think about stopping using soap.

Don't use any on my nipples/areola anyway so no worries there.

From my reading...
The scab over the whole nipple thing is something I've not heard of before.

See!  No one else has had personal experience with this either!  All I get is, "Well, I've heard/read..."  aarrgh

I agree with ks6 - that there is problem with your latch because I had the same problem.

Woo-hoo!  Someone who had my problem!

1. latch the baby "chin to nose"

Thanks for the tips...but what does this one mean?

[rlb1377]

I am really sorry to hear that I am not the only one that had this. About 8 hours after having my son I was already bleeding.  I asked the nurse abou this and she said soreness was common then I showed her and she said WOW I did not realize you meant like that.  I have such bad scabs that when I took a shower I thought I was just fally apart. 

Nurses also told me that my sons latch was good and I was doing everything right.  Well after 3 weeks of scabs and falling apart I through in the towel and decided to pump for the next 4 months and bottle feed.  This was after many trips to a lac. cansultan and she finally said she did not think she could help me any longer.  SHe ultimately thought it was that maybe my son had a high arched pallet and that was what was causing all of this.

Well.... I have 3 months left to go on this 2nd pregnancy and I am hope ing nursing goes much smoother.

I wish you easier nusing with your second child.

Rebecca

[Petunia]

SHe ultimately thought it was that maybe my son had a high arched pallet and that was what was causing all of this.

Hmmm...that's a possibility with mine too.  But isn't it irksome that no one seems to know what the problem is??  I mean, if he wasn't latching on properly he wouldn't have been getting enough to eat, right?  But my little man gained his birthweight back by the time he was four days old!  We never had trouble with weight gain until he was four months old and he got an ear infection.

By the way, pumping was not less painful than nursing because the pump still pulls at your nipple and mine had a huge scab on it.

Also, I don't think nursing more frequently would have alleviated my pain any better.  I didn't need him ripping off the scabs more often!  For general nipple soreness for normal people that probably works.

Maybe I did let him nurse too often those first couple of days in the hospital.  I do remember that when my milk came in (on day 3!) that I had enough for three children and all of a sudden he could go three hours between feedings without blinking.  Oh if only I had known about baby whispering then!  I wouldn't have tried to wake him up every two hours to feed him!  (I had been told he shouldn't be going any longer than two hours between feeds.)  But I don't know, maybe I did offer overly much, maybe I didn't.

I guess if it happens again I'll try a lactation consultant but won't be surprised if she says she doesn't know what the problem is.  I know if I just keep at it that it will eventually heal.  Yea!  More ugly scarring on my nipples!

[rlb1377]

As with the wt gain.   My son only dropped 4 onces off his birth wt.... but he was 3 weeks old before he gained it back.  So he was not gettng enough.  They also had me try nipple shields too.  I think they were a pain to use and my sons latch was even worse. 

[naunmom]

I do my best to describe "chin to nose"
Basically it's the way/technique that you latch the baby.  Start by laying her chin to your breast, lining up the lower lip to the areola and then rolling her onto the areola/nipple until her nose touches your breast.  She should latch on to most of the areola, not just the nipple.

It took a few tries sometimes at first - but I could tell when she was improperly latched.  When she was properly latched I did not feel pain even with the scabs.