Exhausted Mom needs advice

[JKL]

Hi!  I'm hoping someone here can help me.  We have been having sleep issues with our 14 week old son since he was born.  After a month and a half of major accidental parenting (the only way I thought I could get any sleep was to let him sleep on my chest because he cried when I put him down), I found the BW books and started using those techniques.  Since then, we have come a long way (my son sleeps in his crib now!), but we still have a ways to go.  He still wakes up many times every night--sometimes every 45 minutes still.  Here is our info.

How old is your child?  14 weeks
What’s his/her daily routine?  See below
What’s nap routine?  strip down to diaper (He gets hot in the swaddle), snuggle while walking around a quiet house a few times (he never falls asleep here, but it really helps to calm him down), turn off lights and pull shade in room, turn on lullabies and fan for noise, swaddle, put in crib awake and kiss.
How long are naps?  sometimes sleeps for 35 minutes, sometimes for 2 hours, and often anywhere in between (I have kept a log of our days and nights since I started this, and can't find any pattern ..)  Sometimes needs S/P to resettle several times, sometimes sleeps through on his own.
What's bedtime routine? Time?  Start at 6 pm.  Bath, massage, story, turn off lights, turn on music and fan, long breastfeed, snuggle with Mom and Dad for 30 minutes (if I lay him right down after he eats, he spits up a bunch.  Dr. says mild reflux.), swaddle, in crib awake at 7:30, kiss.
Do you bottle or breastfed??  Breast.  Bottle of breast milk once or twice a week
How much? or how long? 10-15 minutes.  1 side only, except right before bed, when he wants both (I think he is trying to nurse to sleep at these times, so I'm careful to keep him awake.)  During the day, if I feed him from both sides, he seems to get uncomfortably full, and spits up alot more.
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)  See above
How many wakes per night?  Between 3 and 9
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up?   Crying.  Sometimes I can settle him in 5 minutes, sometimes he's up an hour or more. 
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?  Really crying
What have you tried to settle??  P/S, holding legs so they don't flail (he is constantly jerking himself awake, even in the swaddle), hand on his chest.  When it's been more than 3 hours since he last ate, I feed him, and then he has to sit upright for 20-30 minutes (I think this is where one of our our problems is because he sometimes falls asleep on me during this time, but I'm not sure what to do.  He will take a full feed at these times)
What do you do for A time and how long is it?  Variety of things:  walks, stroller rides, age appropriate toys, tummy time, vocal play, etc.  Between 45 minutes and 1 hour and a half--I watch for cues.
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?  Turned over tummy to back for the first time this week!
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)  no.  Pediatrician advised it to see if it helped with sleeping, but I'm afraid that, with his digestive troubles, it might make things worse
 Do they have a prop? If so what is it?  paci, but he refuses it alot now
Do they have a lovie?No
   

Daily schedule  (times vary daily, except for night routine): 

Up between 6 and 6:30
E  6:30 or 7:00
A usually 45 minutes is all he can stand
S  Sometimes 30 minutes, sometimes over an hour
A  Depending on what time he wakes up

E  10
A  10:20-11:15/11:30
S  We try for an hour and a half

E  1
A  1:20-2:15/2:30
S  We try for an hour and a half

E 4
A  Till 5:00
S  Cat nap in the front carrier as I work around the house (I can not get him down in his bed for his nap here--he fights it the whole time and ends up cranky and overtired)

6:00:  Bath, massage, story
E  6:30-7:30
S  In bed awake at 7:30 ish

E  10:30ish
E  1:30ish
E  4:30ish


I know that at his age and weight (14 pounds) he should not be feeding every 3 hours at night, but he seems to wake up hungry at these times.   Actually, I don't mind getting up at these 3 times if he would not wake up all the other times.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The whole mini-reflux thing is really hard--I feel like he neeeds to be kept upright after a feed (elevating his crib didn't help), but, as I said, he sometimes falls asleep on me here.  Thoughts? Thank you!!!

[Wiki]

Am not enough of an expert to advise for now but have two friends whose babies have reflux. What medications (if any) is he on for that?

[JKL]

He's not on any meds.  Our pediatrician says that since he is gaining weight and doesn't seem to be in pain (he is a very happy little boy, thought I'm not sure why he's not very, very tired!), that he doesn't need medication as long as we take some preventative measures like propping up his crib, keeping him upright after feeds, burping him alot, etc.  I don't think it is the actual digestive troubles that are keeping him up at night, but maybe the measures we are taking to prevent them are hurting us in some way. ?  Or maybe it is something completely different; I am at a loss....

[Wiki]

I'll keep this bounced so that someone else can help you. I'm sure there is someone with better advice than me.
You poor thing, you must be exhausted. My son is 3 weeks older than yours, and about 3 weeks ago I suddenly had a nightmare getting him to nap, he would cry and cry. I then realised that he could actually stay up LONGER, and he was getting angry when I put him down. Now he does 2 hours A time fine.

Have you implemented a naptime routine? I did this when I put Caspar into his cot for naps, before than he had daytime sleeps in his rocker chair. I wasn't sure I needed a routine, and it is really short, but he does wind down to sleep with it. I take him upstairs, prop him up on the bed (he cries if I lie him down), take off his bib, get the grobag (sleeping bag) ready, lie him in it, sing Twinkle Twinkle with him on my shoulder (he is usually burrowing his head inot my neck by this point). Lie him down and tell him to have a lovely sleep, leave the room. I don't close the blinds as I use them to make a difference at 7pm between night and day, given its so light out now at night.

What kind of tired cues are you seeing?

[JKL]

**Wiki, thanks for taking the time to reply, and for the sympathy  .  Believe it or not, his sleep was much worse than this just a month ago!  I do have a consistent nap wind down routine (think I put it in my monstorously long first post), and it really has helped improve his naps.  I have considered that maybe his A time needs to be longer, but if I try to go over an hour and 15 minutes, he is very hard to put down.  If I put him down earlier, he will (often) go to sleep on his own.  Maybe because he is so tired from not having enough sleep at night, but he's not sleeping well because he is not having enough A time!!!  A vicious cycle!!  The cues I watch for are yawns (this isn't so reliable anymore, though), what I call his baby mood swings (laughing 1 minute and then it turns to whining), and desperate sucking on his fists (and on my shoulder, if I pick him up).  If I miss these cues, he gets just plain fussy, and then cries hard.

Last night, my little guy was up (to eat?) at his usual times:  10:40, 1:50, and around 4 (actually, woke up at 3:55, and I put him back to sleep, and then he was up at 4:20, so i kept him up and fed him). He woke up for the day at 6:00.  Should I be trying not to feed him?

[Wiki]

Yawns stopped working as a cue for me this week as well - they were OK last week. If he is down on his mat, I now look for him turning to his right and sucking on his sleeve, that's time to get moving. In the chair or on me, its usually grizzling, and not stopping if I move him around the room. I would guess he can't stay awake too long in the day if he's missing sleep at night (that would be how I would feel anyway)...not sure about the feeding. I bottlefeed so I am not sure I'm good on the other advice. How many times does he feed in 24 hours?

[JKL]

****Wiki--He eats exactly 8 times in 24 hours.  Thanks so much for your input!  I'm hoping a few other people will look at my routine and jump in with advice as well.  I am under a lot of pressure to just let my son CIO--from my husband, friends who have kids, even the pediatrician!  It just doesn't feel right in my heart to do that, though, but I am sort of out of ideas!

[Wiki]

8 feeds in 24 hours sounds a lot to me but then I stopped BFing at 5 weeks, so we were down to 5 bottle feeds in 24 hours by 14 weeks (cos Caspar doesn't eat at night). Maybe he is snacking, and not getting a full enough tummy to stay asleep for long? Don't know why no one else is replying, maybe post for teezee, she seems to have some great advice on here...

[JKL]

Thanks--maybe I need a more specific question then, "Please help me"
 Wiki, can you give me an idea of what your routine looked like when your lo was my son's age (15 weeks today).  Last night, we got way off his usual routine and I ended up feeding him at 2:45pm, 5:00pm, and 7:00pm...and he only woke up at 11:30 and 3ish!!  Maybe I should be cluster feeding in the evening, though that seems like a step backwards; shouldn't I be trying to lengthen the time between his feeds instead??

[mommyoftwo]

JKL -- do you know approx. how much ounces your son get?  Have you actually pumped to see how much he is taking per feed?  8 feedings is fine if you count dream feeding, which you do at 10:30 (why don't you try and do one at 9 PM then, at 11 PM -- don't wait for him to ask for it.  Just go ahead and feed him). 

Another problem could be that he has become a snacker.  There are some great advice under the breastfeeding forum.

At 14 lbs, he should be sleeping through the night or just have 1 middle of the night feed.  Also, I have read that around 4 months, babies seem to start spitting up.  Not sure why....  good luck.

[Wiki]

Routine is pretty much the same at 15 weeks as now at 18 weeks, given his recent early starts that I am desperate to stop....bear in mind though that I bottle feed and they are all 7-8oz and C has slept through since 11 weeks when we dropped his dreamfeed. I've put things averagely as it depends when he wakes up.

6am - wake up and eat
A time - usually 1.5 to 2 hours
7.30-8am - down for sleep
9-9.30am feed
A time
11am - down for sleep
12.30-1pm feed
A time
2-2.30pm - down for a sleep
3.30-4pm - feed
I have started to drop this nap in the hope to combat his early wakings, so once I've run out of A time...
6.15pm start bathtime routine
7pm feed and bed

Right now, he can stay awake around 2 hours at a time, although we are struggling on that today, he is really grumpy and I think its teeth, as he's normally a very chilled baby, and waking up grumpy is just not him.
We usually have A time for at least 30 mins before a feed, he never wakes up right on food time.
If he gets up at 5.30-6am I do try to claw back 30 mins per feed during the day or he'd be in bed at 6pm

I wonder if the snacker thing might be the case for your LO. How long does he feed for?

[mommyoftwo]

1 1/5 to 2 hours of A times seems really long for a 15 wk old baby.  Just a thought.  Could you cut back on the A time and see if he is still grumpy?

[JKL]

Thanks guys!  I'll check out the breastfeeding forum.  It only takes him about 10 minutes to completely drain my breast, although at night, he usually takes 20 or more minutes.  I thought he was just taking a longer time at night for the comfort, but I guess it could be that he's only snacking during the day and getting his full feeds at night.  Hmmm.....  Still not sure why he's waking up all those times when I know he can't be hungry, except that maybe since SOMETIMES when he wakes up (3 times per night), he gets to eat and then fall asleep, and that is comforting to him, he keeps trying everytime he wakes up...I'm going to figure this out, I swear!